Paige's Wings Page (merged thread) | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Paige's Wings Page (merged thread)

oldude said:
Let’s hope you’re right. To your point, the fact that Koclanes played Arike 10 minutes less than Paige in last night’s game may have been a not so subtle message to her. On the other hand, coming off a demanding national championship season, I am not crazy about Paige playing bigger mpg than she did in college, when I heard Koclanes talking about “load management” for rookies just a few weeks ago.
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I saw where Paige left briefly for an undisclosed injury but returned to the court. In game 2 of her pro career
 
HuskyNan said:
. If the coach told Arike to play within the game plan or she’ll be benched, Arike’s smart enough to do what needs to be done
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I agree with you 100%, but I think this is easier said than done, especially with a "superstar" in pro sports.
 
HuskyNan said:
I saw where Paige left briefly for an undisclosed injury but returned to the court. In game 2 of her pro career
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I saw the play. Pretty sure it was to make sure she was okay. She went down awkwardly, got up and was running fine
 
Just watching the game last night, it looked like Seattle was playing Geno's offensive sets -- I mean seeking the extra pass in the half court -- and Dallas wasn't. In the postgame presser, Paige described areas she needs to improve in, and most of it was actually things everyone else needs to do, not her. I suppose that's one way Paige sends a message.

She also fielded a question about her health and her minutes. She gave a typical Paige answer: "37 minutes? I'd rather play 40." But the fact is if Paige gets injured from overwork this season, I ssuspect the current fan support this franchise is getting will evaporate in "a Dallas minute." If Paige goes down, the Wings in Dallas are done for this season, and maybe a lot longer than that.
 
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CL82 said:
I agree with you 100%, but I think this is easier said than done, especially with a "superstar" in pro sports.
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She’s not the only star on the team, like most W teams. Arike seems to be honestly relieved about that, if you read her social media accounts
 
LwrcasefaN said:
ok…it’s only been two games so I’ll go light here on the wtfs. Interior defense is just awful. Actually, team defense period is awful. Conditioning of some of the players is awful. Look, no one is expecting great things considering the coach is new and the overall roster components. BUT, commit to some consistent identity…defense, hustle, composure…and die on that hill! Bench Smith already, PLEASE. Send a message. She’s a vet and her leadership in any form is non existent. Give Big T ALL of her minutes…lol. I like Siegrest at the first woman off the bench. I think they could get more out of Carrington if they set her up correctly. They don’t have the horses to play uptempo for a full game so slow down or you will lose every game this season.
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Tell us what you really think.......;)
 
HuskyNan said:
She’s not the only star on the team, like most W teams. Arike seems to be honestly relieved about that, if you read her social media accounts
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No doubt, Nan, but the balance of power between coaches and athletes is different in pro sports than it is in college sports.
 
oldude said:
Let’s hope you’re right. To your point, the fact that Koclanes played Arike 10 minutes less than Paige in last night’s game may have been a not so subtle message to her. On the other hand, coming off a demanding national championship season, I am not crazy about Paige playing bigger mpg than she did in college, when I heard Koclanes talking about “load management” for rookies just a few weeks ago.
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I’m pretty sure it was Kolcanes who said a couple of weeks ago that they would be sure to manage Paige’s minutes, trying to preserve her health and energy after the long NCAA season. I’m not yet sure just what he’s doing in that area. I guess 37 is less than 40, but I’d expected her to be averaging something south of 30.
 
Bigboote said:
I’m pretty sure it was Kolcanes who said a couple of weeks ago that they would be sure to manage Paige’s minutes, trying to preserve her health and energy after the long NCAA season. I’m not yet sure just what he’s doing in that area. I guess 37 is less than 40, but I’d expected her to be averaging something south of 30.
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The announcers rightly pointed out that when the bench was in, particularly Ty, Maddy, and TMac ... along with Paige was when Dallas was playing their best. I think Kolcanes is trying to figure out which mix of players work best, and one of his "problems" is that any mix of players that includes Paige is going to work best. That makes it easy to overlook managing minutes.
 
oldude said:
Out of curiosity, I looked up that obscure statistic of “+/-“ for last nights game and it paints a concerning picture. Paige’s +/- last night was +10. Arike’s +/- was -15. It’s just one game. But how well the Wings do this season will depend in large measure on how well Arike adapts her game to Paige’s game.

Arike was the biggest cheerleader for Paige once Dallas secured the #1 pick in the draft. I have no doubt that she really wants to make the partnership between the two work. But that must involve Arike making fairly significant adjustments in her game, and you have to ask the question, “In her 7th season in the W playing one way, is she even capable of making major adjustments to her game?”

Time will tell.
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If the +10 is accurate that means the Wings were out scored by 18 in the little over 3 minutes that Paige was in the bench. Amazing.
 
Jackalope said:
The announcers rightly pointed out that when the bench was in, particularly Ty, Maddy, and TMac ... along with Paige was when Dallas was playing their best. I think Kolcanes is trying to figure out which mix of players work best, and one of his "problems" is that any mix of players that includes Paige is going to work best. That makes it easy to overlook managing minutes.
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+100. As @oldude pointed out, Paige was +10 and Arike was -15. How is that even possible if Paige played 37 out of 40 minutes? LOL...

From the article @fireford linked:

Still, despite going just 2 for 14 from the field in the loss, Ogunbowale kept putting up difficult shots, attempting to shoot herself out of the slump, finishing the contest with zero assists in the process. This cost the Wings in the team's comeback attempt and took opportunities away from Bueckers, who was on a hot streak.

Bueckers went No.1 overall in the 2025 WNBA draft for a reason. She is a lights out shooter, known for her efficiency and unselfish style of play. However, the Wings are going to need her to be assertive and not overly deferential in order to thrive. Considering Bueckers is the key to the franchise's future, it only makes sense that she be the key cog in the team's offensive attack.

I thought those were 2 really great paragraphs in the article. I can't speak for what goes on behind the scenes, but 2 thoughts...
  • In the NBA, many coaches seem to cater to the super stars on their team. Carmelo Anthony was famous for being an "offensive flow killer". But he was a big star and the coaches never corrected it. I am by no means an expert on the NBA, but I do wonder how much "control", for example, JJ Reddick has over how the team plays with Lebron as the leader.
  • I know the WNBA is not nearly as "big", but if Arike was the "star" on Dallas last season, I wonder how much control the coach actually had over getting her to play team ball. I honestly don't know.
New coaching staff, new Sheriff in town... I wonder if Koclanes is confident enough to coach up Arike to play team ball and consistently bench her if he's not happy with her decisions (same goes for Carrington). Time will tell...
 
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EricLA said:
+100. As @oldude pointed out, Paige was +10 and Arike was -15. How is that even possible if Paige played 37 out of 40 minutes? LOL...

From the article @fireford linked:

Still, despite going just 2 for 14 from the field in the loss, Ogunbowale kept putting up difficult shots, attempting to shoot herself out of the slump, finishing the contest with zero assists in the process. This cost the Wings in the team's comeback attempt and took opportunities away from Bueckers, who was on a hot streak.

Bueckers went No.1 overall in the 2025 WNBA draft for a reason. She is a lights out shooter, known for her efficiency and unselfish style of play. However, the Wings are going to need her to be assertive and not overly deferential in order to thrive. Considering Bueckers is the key to the franchise's future, it only makes sense that she be the key cog in the team's offensive attack.

I thought those were 2 really great paragraphs in the article. I can't speak for what goes on behind the scenes, but 2 thoughts...
  • In the NBA, many coaches seem to cater to the super stars on their team. Carmelo Anthony was famous for being an "offensive flow killer". But he was a big star and the coaches never corrected it. I am by no means an expert on the NBA, but I do wonder how much "control", for example, JJ Reddick has over how the team plays with Lebron as the leader.
  • I know the WNBA is not nearly as "big", but if Arike was the "star" on Dallas last season, I wonder how much control the coach actually had over getting her to play team ball. I honestly don't know.
New coaching staff, new Sheriff in town... I wonder if Koclanes is confident enough to coach up Arike to play team ball and consistently bench her if he's not happy with her decisions. Time will tell...
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I hope so. And the same goes for Carrignton. In their two games, she has been Arike Jr. with her one one play and ad shots. Those two on the court together absolutely just kill the flow of the offense. Paige, IMO, is best off the ball and the team was better with Harris at the 1 as a result.
 
Paige played 37 minutes so someone in the organization clearly knows who is in charge here. And, the person who is the face of the team. I suggest that the two players who play me only basketball get their crap together. Or, they will be on the Midnight Train come the end of the season.
 
That +/- stat I take with a grain of salt. If you’re on the floor when the team is getting hammered that number is taking a dive. So if you’re a starter playing with 3 bench players…and the other team has all its starters in the number will dip. It has a very limited use. Best use may be for matchup analysis or substitution pattern…or even a game flow tool. But as far as a distinct indicator of player performance…it’s going to be no for me, dawg.
 
LwrcasefaN said:
That +/- stat I take with a grain of salt. If you’re on the floor when the team is getting hammered that number is taking a dive. So if you’re a starter playing with 3 bench players…and the other team has all its starters in the number will dip. It has a very limited use. Best use may be for matchup analysis or substitution pattern…or even a game flow tool. But as far as a distinct indicator of player performance…it’s going to be no for me, dawg.
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The +/- stat is the only Stat that gives equal weight to offensive and defensive effort. As a former Hockey Coach, I gave this stat significance in identifying a player's contributions. Granted, hockey is a much lower scoring game than basketball, it is still a useful stat, not to be taken in isolation.
 
Post game presser - following up on the points about the coaches controlling the team and not the players, some great comments by HC Koclanes:

Maddy was asked about her main takeaway from the game and she talked about the team coming from 15 down at halftime, and if they play together and hard, they can be good. Koclanes followed up with...

"...challenge them (the team) to get with each other and find a different level. To Maddie's point - if we are going to compete night in and night out in this league, it's going to take a level of hard work and effort that we have within us, but hasn't been demanded of us consistently all the time, so we are working to establish that here, and we will get to that point"

 
Another thought on the Paige/Arike partnership. Nobody expects the Wings to win it all this year or even make it to the playoffs. At some point, if the GM & HC don’t see a real benefit to having Paige & Arike on the floor together, then they should seriously consider trading Arike for a draft pick. Next year just about every player in the W, not on a rookie contract, is going to be a free agent. Miller & Koclanes can build the team they want around Paige and start to make some noise in the W.
 
oldude said:
Another thought on the Paige/Arike partnership. Nobody expects the Wings to win it all this year or even make it to the playoffs. At some point, if the GM & HC don’t see a real benefit to having Paige & Arike on the floor together, then they should seriously consider trading Arike for a draft pick. Next year just about every player in the W, not on a rookie contract, is going to be a free agent. Miller & Koclanes can build the team they want around Paige and start to make some noise in the W.
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@MilfordHusky and I were just talking about that yesterday. We recalled that Arike generally worked with with Marina Mabrey so maybe renewing their partnership... who would the Sun be willing to give up for Arike? What kind of trade value does she have?
 
oldude said:
Next year just about every player in the W, not on a rookie contract, is going to be a free agent. Miller & Koclanes can build the team they want around Paige and start to make some noise in the W.
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I hadn't thought about it this way. Paige's problem could be addressed by getting traded, but that's not exactly her way. But the Wings could build a better team around her next year.
 
oldude said:
Out of curiosity, I looked up that obscure statistic of “+/-“ for last nights game and it paints a concerning picture. Paige’s +/- last night was +10. Arike’s +/- was -15. It’s just one game. But how well the Wings do this season will depend in large measure on how well Arike adapts her game to Paige’s game.

Arike was the biggest cheerleader for Paige once Dallas secured the #1 pick in the draft. I have no doubt that she really wants to make the partnership between the two work. But that must involve Arike making fairly significant adjustments in her game, and you have to ask the question, “In her 7th season in the W playing one way, is she even capable of making major adjustments to her game?”

Time will tell.
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This says Paige was +2.

PS Go Maddy!

IMG_3890.jpeg
 
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oldude said:
Another thought on the Paige/Arike partnership. Nobody expects the Wings to win it all this year or even make it to the playoffs. At some point, if the GM & HC don’t see a real benefit to having Paige & Arike on the floor together, then they should seriously consider trading Arike for a draft pick. Next year just about every player in the W, not on a rookie contract, is going to be a free agent. Miller & Koclanes can build the team they want around Paige and start to make some noise in the W.
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I agree. There are very few 'absolutely must have' players (Stewart, Wilson etc.) in the WNBA. And Ogunbowale isn't one of them. A team will win about the same number of games with her or without her. Dallas could trade her tomorrow for an asset to start the makeover and it won't make a difference in this season's record.
 
Aluminny69 said:
The +/- stat is the only Stat that gives equal weight to offensive and defensive effort. As a former Hockey Coach, I gave this stat significance in identifying a player's contributions. Granted, hockey is a much lower scoring game than basketball, it is still a useful stat, not to be taken in isolation.
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It gives equal weight to effectively team offense and defense... not the player directly. A player could individually perform exactly the same with a combination of 4 other players, but if the collective team on the floor results are different... for better or worse, then the player +- follows suit. If Paige hadn't played 36+ minutes...meaning she played through high and low production she would be negative too. She played well and was +2. That's why I don't feel this is an indicator to access player performance. As a coach, I would conclude that the lineup I put on the floor is the wrong lineup. Or maybe I expect to lose ground because I choose to rest my best players while I have a comfortable lead.
 
In her second game she became the second fastest rookie to score at least 15 with 5 assists and 5 rebound. Candace parker did it in her first game.
 
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