Paige vs Top 25 teams

[HuskyNan]

 

[PvP]

View attachment 94604

Well, let's just agree it ain't bad!

 

[Bone Dog]

NPOY!

 

[HuskyNan]

 

[HuskyNan]

 

[Bone Dog]

A few moments in Paige's NPOY portfolio

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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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[HuskyNan]

LOL, smart little girl

 

[BRS24]

A few moments in Paige's NPOY portfolio

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I jumped up and screamed when Paige did that unconscious spin move and pass. After you've had "that" surgery, it takes a while for mind and body to meld, and when you do something like that fast pivot without thinking, it's a huge confidence builder. That's when you know you're ok, and even better, when your teammates see you do something like that, even they notice.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Unless Caitlin gets hurt or has a huge slump, I think she will be NPOY. But Paige could be unanimous All-American.

 

[Bone Dog]

Unless Caitlin gets hurt or has a huge slump, I think she will be NPOY. But Paige could be unanimous All-American.

I think it may also depend on how their teams fare in March. I mean, if there were an Iowa - UConn game early enough for it to affect the voting (don't worry, I know that's not happening this year) and Paige shined and Nika shut Caitlin down (as she's done before), it might be hard to support her over Paige.

 

[Bone Dog]

In case anyone needs a reminder, it's possible to be the nation's leading scorer and not win NPOY.

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[MilfordHusky]

In case anyone needs a reminder, it's possible to be the nation's leading scorer and not win NPOY.

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Last year, Siegrist was the #1 scorer. Clark was #2 in scoring and #1 in assists.

 

[DefenseBB]

I think it may also depend on how their teams fare in March. I mean, if there were an Iowa - UConn game early enough for it to affect the voting (don't worry, I know that's not happening this year) and Paige shined and Nika shut Caitlin down (as she's done before), it might be hard to support her over Paige.

The awards are voted on before the NCAAT so…we will not be playing Iowa for a head to head matchup.

 

[BBallF]

That is such a difficult shot to make. I hope everyone appreciates that. She makes everything look so easy. As my daughter says, I always gasp at least once when I see her play. That was a gasp move. It's just an innate talent. A born basketball player as Geno has said.

She and Clark will likely be the face of women's basketball for a very long time to come. They have created so much more interest in the game and the key to me is that those who would look down on the sport previously as not matching up to the men's game are now suddenly interested. How can you not be?

 

[visitingcock]

The awards are voted on before the NCAAT so…we will not be playing Iowa for a head to head matchup.

Actually, the ballots are due at the Elite 8 - not the end of the conference tournament. So, a candidate needs to get her team to that level as a rule of thumb. I think there has been one exception.

 

[diggerfoot]

Bueckers was not the most productive player when she won NPOY as a freshman, but both her outstanding offensive and defensive efficiency could not be ignored. Clark has the court of public opinion in her favor this year so Bueckers would have to be even more efficient to win.

Bueckers has gained more recognition this year for the defense she always has been good at, but it still will be up to what she does offensively. I initially posted I hoped Bueckers would achieve 60/45/85 numbers and a 3.0 A/T ratio. After a slow start I am not sure that is possible but she is at least tracking in that direction. If she does reach that extraordinary level of efficiency she would deserve NPOY no matter Clark’s productivity.

 

[PacoSwede]

paige is unique in her amazing ability to rise to the moment at the key time (excluding v. arizona as a freshman -- but D had a similar bad outing). i think that is far more important than mere stats.

 

[diggerfoot]

paige is unique in her amazing ability to rise to the moment at the key time (excluding v. arizona as a freshman -- but D had a similar bad outing). i think that is far more important than mere stats.

I agree that is important, as well as defensive ability. But rising to the occasion is not a trait that separates Bueckers from Clark, they both do so. They both make amazing plays even in ordinary moments.

Defense separates Bueckers from Clark, but that will hardly factor in. It will come down to a matter of Clark’s productivity v Bueckers efficiency. Efficiency is harder to notice, I offer indicators not so much as stats that have to be achieved so much as at what level will Bueckers superior efficiency gain sufficient attention.

 

[browns]

points per game=Clarke..30.9....Bueckers...19.2
Assists per game=Clarke...7.6..Bueckers...4.1
Rebounds per game=Clarke...7.4...Bueckers...3.3
Bueckers is a great player but Clarke is just better..stats don't lie and the terrific plays that Bueckers makes Clarke makes as many if not more for her team..
Barring injury Clarke will win NPOY and I don't think it will be close

 

[Plebe]

Actually, the ballots are due at the Elite 8 - not the end of the conference tournament. So, a candidate needs to get her team to that level as a rule of thumb. I think there has been one exception.

"Clark was honored Thursday as The Associated Press women's basketball Player of the Year. She received 20 votes from the 28-member national media panel that votes on the AP Top 25 each week. Voting was done before the NCAA tournament began."

Iowa's Caitlin Clark named AP women's Player of the Year

Caitlin Clark is The Associated Press college women's basketball Player of the Year after leading Iowa to the Big Ten tournament title and the school's first Final Four in 30 years.

www.espn.com

 

[Rowdy831]

Unless Caitlin gets hurt or has a huge slump, I think she will be NPOY. But Paige could be unanimous All-American.

Maybe, but Paige is more complete player. I looked at CC line last week and she scored 30 something points and a few assists and 10 TOs. My guess is by years end she will have taken almost twice as many shots as Paige to score a few more points. The one thing they have in common is their teams will only go as far as each of them can take them.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

points per game=Clarke..30.9....Bueckers...19.2
Assists per game=Clarke...7.6..Bueckers...4.1
Rebounds per game=Clarke...7.4...Bueckers...3.3
Bueckers is a great player but Clarke is just better..stats don't lie and the terrific plays that Bueckers makes Clarke makes as many if not more for her team..
Barring injury Clarke will win NPOY and I don't think it will be close

I don't think Paige is contention for NPOY this year but Clarks stats were also better her freshman year. Not sure you are aware of the famous adage but there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Stats lie all the time.

I think a better test of the better play will come at the next level tbh.

 

[visitingcock]

"Clark was honored Thursday as The Associated Press women's basketball Player of the Year. She received 20 votes from the 28-member national media panel that votes on the AP Top 25 each week. Voting was done before the NCAA tournament began."

Iowa's Caitlin Clark named AP women's Player of the Year

Caitlin Clark is The Associated Press college women's basketball Player of the Year after leading Iowa to the Big Ten tournament title and the school's first Final Four in 30 years.

www.espn.com

Naismith was announced March 29

Caitlin Clark wins 2023 Naismith player of the year award; Aliyah Boston, Dawn Staley also honored

Caitlin Clark is 2023 Naismith Women's College Player of the Year. Dawn Staley won coach of the year and Aliyah Boston was named defender of the year.

www.usatoday.com

 

[diggerfoot]

points per game=Clarke..30.9....Bueckers...19.2
Assists per game=Clarke...7.6..Bueckers...4.1
Rebounds per game=Clarke...7.4...Bueckers...3.3
Bueckers is a great player but Clarke is just better..stats don't lie and the terrific plays that Bueckers makes Clarke makes as many if not more for her team..
Barring injury Clarke will win NPOY and I don't think it will be close

Why did Bueckers beat out Clark their freshman years even though Clark’s productivity numbers were similarly better then than they are now?

I haven’t kept track of Clark’s efficiency numbers so far this year. Some I expect are better, some worse, due to less experienced teammates, but if she duplicates roughly 50/40 for shooting and Bueckers achieves 60/50, Clark achieves 2.0 A/T (though I bet that will be less this year) and Bueckers is greater than 2.5, then the difference between the two will be even more striking than their freshman seasons.

To return to the original question, why did Clark lose out to Bueckers her freshman season even though her productivity stats you just provided were much better?

 

[HuskyNan]

points per game=Clarke..30.9....Bueckers...19.2
Assists per game=Clarke...7.6..Bueckers...4.1
Rebounds per game=Clarke...7.4...Bueckers...3.3
Bueckers is a great player but Clarke is just better..stats don't lie and the terrific plays that Bueckers makes Clarke makes as many if not more for her team..
Barring injury Clarke will win NPOY and I don't think it will be close

Forgot to add:

Minutes -
Caitlin 454:58 minutes in 14 games, 32.5 mpg
Paige 373:28 in 13 games, 28.7 mog

The two of them have a great relationship. Whoever wins, the other will be happy for her friend. Both are special players

 

[Bone Dog]

Why did Bueckers beat out Clark their freshman years even though Clark’s productivity numbers were similarly better then than they are now?

I haven’t kept track of Clark’s efficiency numbers so far this year. Some I expect are better, some worse, due to less experienced teammates, but if she duplicates roughly 50/40 for shooting and Bueckers achieves 60/50, Clark achieves 2.0 A/T (though I bet that will be less this year) and Bueckers is greater than 2.5, then the difference between the two will be even more striking than their freshman seasons.

To return to the original question, why did Clark lose out to Bueckers her freshman season even though her productivity stats you just provided were much better?

IIRC, it was based on complex stats more than on direct ones like scoring or shooting percentages. Winshares and the like, or some such formulae. With players like these two an eyeball test of whose team goes further probably catches much of what the complex stats are trying to measure more precisely. Iowa and UConn will only go as far as Caitlin and Paige can carry them. If they both make it past the Sweet Sixteen, I think Caitlin is likely to win it.

 

[diggerfoot]

IIRC, it was based on complex stats more than on direct ones like scoring or shooting percentages. Winshares and the like, or some such formulae. With players like these two an eyeball test of whose team goes further probably catches much of what the complex stats are trying to measure more precisely. Iowa and UConn will only go as far as Caitlin and Paige can carry them. If they both make it past the Sweet Sixteen, I think Caitlin is likely to win it.

You are correct that the advanced metrics for both offensive and defensive efficiencies favored Bueckers her freshman year. Unfortunately, defense will not play much of a factor in NPOY voting. While the advanced metrics are better they are harder to access on a game to game basis for us casual onservers (at least for me), plus I do not think advanced metrics play much of a role in voting either.

 

[visitingcock]

Why did Bueckers beat out Clark their freshman years even though Clark’s productivity numbers were similarly better then than they are now?

I haven’t kept track of Clark’s efficiency numbers so far this year. Some I expect are better, some worse, due to less experienced teammates, but if she duplicates roughly 50/40 for shooting and Bueckers achieves 60/50, Clark achieves 2.0 A/T (though I bet that will be less this year) and Bueckers is greater than 2.5, then the difference between the two will be even more striking than their freshman seasons.

To return to the original question, why did Clark lose out to Bueckers her freshman season even though her productivity stats you just provided were much better?

Media platform?

Clark had no media platform as a frosh. Paige was doing it for a highly ranked program and dropping the winning shots on national tv against contenders - in overtime That's at least part of the problem

 

[diggerfoot]

points per game=Clarke..30.9....Bueckers...19.2
Assists per game=Clarke...7.6..Bueckers...4.1
Rebounds per game=Clarke...7.4...Bueckers...3.3
Bueckers is a great player but Clarke is just better..stats don't lie and the terrific plays that Bueckers makes Clarke makes as many if not more for her team..
Barring injury Clarke will win NPOY and I don't think it will be close

To hint at the answer to my previous question to you. There was an applicable reason for why Bueckers beat out Clark their freshman years that now favors Clark their senior years, but history already established it’s not about productivity numbers you think are the determinant.

 

[diggerfoot]

Media platform?

Clark had no media platform as a frosh. Paige was doing it for a highly ranked program and dropping the winning shots on national tv against contenders - in overtime That's at least part of the problem

Bingo!