Paige vs Pistol Pete

[Jmsdawg]

Watched the Paige highlights in the DePaul game. She reminds me of Pistol Pete. Pete was a scoring machine but he was an amazing passer. I was privileged to see Pete play in a LSU MSST game. He scored over 50 points but what I remember most were those incredible passes he made. Watching the Paige highlights she scored a lot of points but what impressed me were those passes. To me she is Pistol Paige!

 

[eebmg]

Skills maybe but never sacrificed or tried to make his team better, Flash and more Flash but forget team building.

 

[MD#12Fan]

I love the PB Pistol Pete analogy!
Both thin, long, and deceptively strong. Both somewhat tall for their position. Pete was 6'5", obviously having no trouble getting his shot off. PB same.
I notice the long strides they both take with the ball in their hands. Shows a wonderful handle, but also court vision that enables them to do so much on the floor in full stride.
I think it is fascinating watching PB learn her role on the team. An 18 year old (?) visibly working to find that perfect balance between scoring and playmaking. Pistol didn't have to do that in college. To me, it's similar to Larry Bird, in that he could have shot every possession and averaged 35 a game, but he was able to find that balance.
I do not know Pistol's pro career so well. He wasn't on National TV so much. Was he ever an "All-Pro" playmaker? I know he was burdened with knee injuries.

 

[Jmsdawg]

I love the PB Pistol Pete analogy!
Both thin, long, and deceptively strong. Both somewhat tall for their position. Pete was 6'5", obviously having no trouble getting his shot off. PB same.
I notice the long strides they both take with the ball in their hands. Shows a wonderful handle, but also court vision that enables them to do so much on the floor in full stride.
I think it is fascinating watching PB learn her role on the team. An 18 year old (?) visibly working to find that perfect balance between scoring and playmaking. Pistol didn't have to do that in college. To me, it's similar to Larry Bird, in that he could have shot every possession and averaged 35 a game, but he was able to find that balance.
I do not know Pistol's pro career so well. He wasn't on National TV so much. Was he ever an "All-Pro" playmaker? I know he was burdened with knee injuries.

I really do not know much about NBA BB. Pro ball has never been exciting to me and I seldom watch either the NBA or WNBA. I never lived in an area where Pro BB was readily available, never developed any team loyalty so just did not watch. So for Pete’s Pro career I am not a good source.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Maravich's best season for assists was 6.9, and average 5.4 for his career. Five time all-star. Spectacular passer, but not a playmaker.

 

[tkaes]

Maravich took way too many shots to make a comparison to Paige valid regardless of his passing skills.

 

[eebmg]

Maravich took way too many shots to make a comparison to Paige valid regardless of his passing skills.

And even then, Maravich passes were designed to keep the spot light on him.

 

[huskeynut]

Just don't let Paige go to those sagging wool socks!!!!!!!!!

 

[Biff]

We did this back in December

Pistol Paige

I know many people are trying to compare Paige to Diana. Watching her play her game seems much more like Pistol Pete Maravich. The way she switches hands, scoops the ball, spins in the lane and drops a mid range shot. For those not old enough to have seen highlights of Pistol Pete look them up...

the-boneyard.com

 

[MD#12Fan]

Maravich took way too many shots to make a comparison to Paige valid regardless of his passing skills.

Pros? or College? College he averaged 46 pts a game his senior year. Obviously he shot more than PB, he shot more than anybody. Do you remember him in the Pros?

 

[CajunHusky]

And even then, Maravich passes were designed to keep the spot light on him.

You have to put it in its era. During the 50's and 60's the game was b o r i n g. No 3 point shout, no shot clock. Many teams were adopting a game style of possession vs shooting (Princeton's four corner). And then along came Pistol, Calvin Murphy and Doctor J. The game was invigorated and reborn.

I love watching women's college basketball. Not so much men's college basketball. I haven't watched NBA basketball in decades.

You want to see fun team basketball, watch Perfumerias Avenida. Those women are playing UConn style basketball from the Stewie era.... and they are having FUN. Watch em sometime, the fun is contagious.

 

[chrissaran]

Skills maybe but never sacrificed or tried to make his team better, Flash and more Flash but forget team building.

How do you know? Did you see Pete play? Obviously he was an incredible passer, which suggests he did care about his teammates. Like Paige, if you're the best player, you should take the most shots.

 

[LCConnFan]

How do you know? Did you see Pete play? Obviously he was an incredible passer, which suggests he did care about his teammates. Like Paige, if you're the best player, you should take the most shots.

Unless your name was Arike!

 

[npignatjr]

Skills maybe but never sacrificed or tried to make his team better, Flash and more Flash but forget team building.

Was a great passer, if hitting teammates with great passes isn't team building what is. Played most of pro career with crummy teams.

 

[npignatjr]

Pros? or College? College he averaged 46 pts a game his senior year. Obviously he shot more than PB, he shot more than anybody. Do you remember him in the Pros?

No 3 PT at that time. He like many top draft picks got drafted by a crummy team. Never got to a good team, Celtics, until injuries had slowed him. Part of his last year 1980.

 

[MD#12Fan]

No 3 PT at that time. He like many top draft picks got drafted by a crummy team. Never got to a good team, Celtics, until injuries had slowed him.

I saw him in Washington when he was with the Celtics. A mere shell of what he was. Similar to Bill Walton in Boston.

 

[Carnac]

Watched the Paige highlights in the DePaul game. She reminds me of Pistol Pete. Pete was a scoring machine but he was an amazing passer. I was privileged to see Pete play in a LSU MSST game. He scored over 50 points but what I remember most were those incredible passes he made. Watching the Paige highlights she scored a lot of points but what impressed me were those passes. To me she is Pistol Paige!

Maravich saw the entire floor, and could see plays developing BEFORE they happened. The thing about Pete and Paige is that they were/are not afraid to pull the trigger on a difficult pass, like the one Paige threw to a cutting Westbrook to start the DePaul game. A thing of beauty, and it got UConn on the board right away.

 

[npignatjr]

35 pro games scoring 40+. Team record 29-6

 

[Cecil9]

I love the PB Pistol Pete analogy!
Both thin, long, and deceptively strong. Both somewhat tall for their position. Pete was 6'5", obviously having no trouble getting his shot off. PB same.
I notice the long strides they both take with the ball in their hands. Shows a wonderful handle, but also court vision that enables them to do so much on the floor in full stride.
I think it is fascinating watching PB learn her role on the team. An 18 year old (?) visibly working to find that perfect balance between scoring and playmaking. Pistol didn't have to do that in college. To me, it's similar to Larry Bird, in that he could have shot every possession and averaged 35 a game, but he was able to find that balance.
I do not know Pistol's pro career so well. He wasn't on National TV so much. Was he ever an "All-Pro" playmaker? I know he was burdened with knee injuries.

I like the Larry Bird comparison---great vision, passing, and shooting

 

[CajunHusky]

Remembering the night Pistol Pete scored 68 points

Forty years ago today, Feb. 25, 1977, Pete Maravich played one of the most spectacular games in New Orleans basketball history. “The Pistol” scored 68 points in a 124-107 win

www.nola.com

Maravich victimized five different Knicks guards: Walt Frazier; Butch Beard; Earl Monroe; Dean Meminger; and Tickey Burden. Frazier was known as one of the best defenders in the NBA but Maravich averaged 35 points a game in his three previous matchups with Frazier. “We tried everything humanly possible to stop him,” Knicks coach Red Holtzman told The Times-Picayune that night. “We double-teamed him, we tried to have guys help out. We tried trapping him. He was just so darned hot, we couldn’t handle him.”

Maravich made 26 of 43 field goals and 16 of 18 free throws en route to his record-setting night. And this was before the 3-point shot had been instituted. At the time, it was the seventh highest scoring output in NBA history. It set the benchmark for the most points ever scored by a guard, eclipsing Jerry West's mark of 63 in 1962. The mark still ranks fourth among guards all-time and 12th overall in NBA history.
....
Bob McAdoo, the Knicks starting center and a three-time NBA scoring champion, said, “He was shooting from everywhere: every corner of the court, fast breaks, set plays. The man beat us by himself."
....
Knicks guard Earl Monroe: “There was no way we could stop him. The Pistol was hot tonight, he was really going off. The thing that came to mind was that he was hitting shots from everywhere. Unconscionable shots”

 

[npignatjr]

Remembering the night Pistol Pete scored 68 points

Forty years ago today, Feb. 25, 1977, Pete Maravich played one of the most spectacular games in New Orleans basketball history. “The Pistol” scored 68 points in a 124-107 win

www.nola.com

Maravich victimized five different Knicks guards: Walt Frazier; Butch Beard; Earl Monroe; Dean Meminger; and Tickey Burden. Frazier was known as one of the best defenders in the NBA but Maravich averaged 35 points a game in his three previous matchups with Frazier. “We tried everything humanly possible to stop him,” Knicks coach Red Holtzman told The Times-Picayune that night. “We double-teamed him, we tried to have guys help out. We tried trapping him. He was just so darned hot, we couldn’t handle him.”

Maravich made 26 of 43 field goals and 16 of 18 free throws en route to his record-setting night. And this was before the 3-point shot had been instituted. At the time, it was the seventh highest scoring output in NBA history. It set the benchmark for the most points ever scored by a guard, eclipsing Jerry West's mark of 63 in 1962. The mark still ranks fourth among guards all-time and 12th overall in NBA history.
....
Bob McAdoo, the Knicks starting center and a three-time NBA scoring champion, said, “He was shooting from everywhere: every corner of the court, fast breaks, set plays. The man beat us by himself."
....
Knicks guard Earl Monroe: “There was no way we could stop him. The Pistol was hot tonight, he was really going off. The thing that came to mind was that he was hitting shots from everywhere. Unconscionable shots”

Watched that game on TV, he was unbelievable. At the time the Knicks had the distinction of being the team that that highest scoring games by the 3 positions guard, forward and center had been scored against them.

 

[my2cents]

An LSU coach went back and watched all Pete's college games and figured out that if there was a 3 pt line, Pete would have avg'd 53 pts a game. He was easily one of the top 5 shooters of all time. ( Jerry West, IMO was the best.)
Paige is way more controlled and gets more excited for her team mates. For her team mates there is no one else they would rather play with.

 

[Aluminny69]

Pros? or College? College he averaged 46 pts a game his senior year. Obviously he shot more than PB, he shot more than anybody. Do you remember him in the Pros?

There was no 3 point line for Maravich. Someone went back and estimated Maravich would have averaged an additional 13 points per game with a 3 point line. Similar situation for our own Wes Bialusuknia.

 

[Ukonnfan]

Like Paige alot, but it’s not even close. Nice try.

 

[willtalk]

Pete was way ahead of his time in his style of play in respect to the NBA. That and the money and publicity he generated as a rookie created resentment among his teammates so that they often froze him out of the offense.

What is often forgotten is that Pete played his entire career with a congenital heart defect. He was missing his right coronary artery that supplys blood to the heart. His skin always looked a bit gray and he was dark around the eyed. In retrospect it is understandable since he had one artery attempting to do the work of two. It was surprising that he could even play basketball.

 

[Woof 101]

I like the Larry Bird comparison---great vision, passing, and shooting

The other thing she does that is Larry Bird like is knowing where to be when she does not have the ball.
Constantly moving to an open area for a possible shot and also knowing who is going to get the ball from her if she can't get one off. Amazing full court awareness for a freshman.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I love the PB Pistol Pete analogy!
Both thin, long, and deceptively strong. Both somewhat tall for their position. Pete was 6'5", obviously having no trouble getting his shot off. PB same.
I notice the long strides they both take with the ball in their hands. Shows a wonderful handle, but also court vision that enables them to do so much on the floor in full stride.
I think it is fascinating watching PB learn her role on the team. An 18 year old (?) visibly working to find that perfect balance between scoring and playmaking. Pistol didn't have to do that in college. To me, it's similar to Larry Bird, in that he could have shot every possession and averaged 35 a game, but he was able to find that balance.
I do not know Pistol's pro career so well. He wasn't on National TV so much. Was he ever an "All-Pro" playmaker? I know he was burdened with knee injuries.

You know, I'm going to have to disagree. Yes, Paige is smooth, has a good outside shot, etc. But Pistol Pete Maravich was, IMHO, the greatest scorer in basketball history. Consider that he scored 44 ppg during his three varsity years. He also averaged 44 ppg as a freshman on the freshman team. And that was all before the 3-point line, and before the shot clock. A Wikipedia notation said that a former coach charted all of his shots. He went back and analyzed how many of his shots would have been threes, and determined that if there had been a 3-point line, Maravich would have averaged 57 ppg in college!! And consider how many schools slowed the game down against him- no 24 second clock!

His NBA career was marred by knee injuries, but he still averaged over 24 ppg. I'm sorry, but Paige is no Pistol Pete. He was in a class by himself!

 

[ConwayGmck]

Maravich was a legitimate basketball talent, no doubt. He proved it in the NBA, leading the league in scoring one season. But he was a product of definite hype and opportunity that NO OTHER player will ever experience at that degree in college BB, ever again.

For one, he had his father as his head coach. Press Maravich was so enamored of his own product - his son - that he left what was a success head coaching job at NC State because he wanted his son to be THE core of the program, and the administration, boosters, and major influences in Raleigh would not allow him to.

By "core of the program" I mean Press wanted his team to evolve around Pete - the other players were to defend, rebound the ball, give it to Pete, and then get the hell out of his way. Time and time and time again. Be prepared to mop up when Pete spills anything on the aisle, then give the ball back and then get the hell out of his way again.

NC State wouldn't allow that - wouldn't let the other players and the program devolve into that. It was bigger than any one player.

So Press shopped around the southeast for ANY BB program that was willing to do this, because if they weren't then they weren't getting Pete. LSU was a moribund program with NO success, and they accepted the proposition as much for the press (media, not Pops) and attention it would bring to the program, and the slight notion that it might actually make the program more successful.

Today, EVERYONE talks about the career points Pistol put up in just 3 seasons at LSU, and how NO ONE will ever top that in the same time frame. They are correct. But NO ONE ever mentions the even MORE untouchable record of CAREER FG ATTEMPTS Pete put up in 3 years. He averaged 45 ppg in Baton Rouge, and averaged 35 FG attempts per game as well. He only had a career 44-45% FG % as a Battling Bengal.

Now, there are players EVERYWHERE in MBB every season who average 44-45% shooting. Many who do far better than that. But they will NEVER equal Pistol's offensive outpouring because they will NEVER have a head coach that will tell their teammates, "give the ball to him and get the hell out of his way!!!". Over and over and over, season after season.

The fact that despite Pete's offense at LSU, they NEVER won the SECT, never went to the NCAAT (they did play in the NIT his final season) makes his time at LSU little more than a carnival exhibit. His own team - minus Pistol Pete - shot over 51% from the field the entire 3 seasons he was in college, but he took all the shots.

I watched his final season in the NBA with the Boston Celtics in 79-80. He was teammates with a fuzzy blonde rookie by the name of Bird. He had knee/leg issues in his final years in the pros and it hampered his abilities to being a part-time reserve for the Celtics, but he had a number of games at the end of the season where he led the team in points, had a few 20+ pt games in as many minutes. No razzle-dazzle showmanship, no slick tricks or sleight of hand. Just fundamental basketball execution.

Both he and Dave Cowans were with the team to start the 80-81 season that the Celtics won the Championship against the Rockets, but both were in street clothes dealing with injuries that would ultimately conclude their professional careers.....

 

[npignatjr]

Maravich was a legitimate basketball talent, no doubt. He proved it in the NBA, leading the league in scoring one season. But he was a product of definite hype and opportunity that NO OTHER player will ever experience at that degree in college BB, ever again.

For one, he had his father as his head coach. Press Maravich was so enamored of his own product - his son - that he left what was a success head coaching job at NC State because he wanted his son to be THE core of the program, and the administration, boosters, and major influences in Raleigh would not allow him to.

By "core of the program" I mean Press wanted his team to evolve around Pete - the other players were to defend, rebound the ball, give it to Pete, and then get the hell out of his way. Time and time and time again. Be prepared to mop up when Pete spills anything on the aisle, then give the ball back and then get the hell out of his way again.

NC State wouldn't allow that - wouldn't let the other players and the program devolve into that. It was bigger than any one player.

So Press shopped around the southeast for ANY BB program that was willing to do this, because if they weren't then they weren't getting Pete. LSU was a moribund program with NO success, and they accepted the proposition as much for the press (media, not Pops) and attention it would bring to the program, and the slight notion that it might actually make the program more successful.

Today, EVERYONE talks about the career points Pistol put up in just 3 seasons at LSU, and how NO ONE will ever top that in the same time frame. They are correct. But NO ONE ever mentions the even MORE untouchable record of CAREER FG ATTEMPTS Pete put up in 3 years. He averaged 45 ppg in Baton Rouge, and averaged 35 FG attempts per game as well. He only had a career 44-45% FG % as a Battling Bengal.

Now, there are players EVERYWHERE in MBB every season who average 44-45% shooting. Many who do far better than that. But they will NEVER equal Pistol's offensive outpouring because they will NEVER have a head coach that will tell their teammates, "give the ball to him and get the hell out of his way!!!". Over and over and over, season after season.

The fact that despite Pete's offense at LSU, they NEVER won the SECT, never went to the NCAAT (they did play in the NIT his final season) makes his time at LSU little more than a carnival exhibit. His own team - minus Pistol Pete - shot over 51% from the field the entire 3 seasons he was in college, but he took all the shots.

I watched his final season in the NBA with the Boston Celtics in 79-80. He was teammates with a fuzzy blonde rookie by the name of Bird. He had knee/leg issues in his final years in the pros and it hampered his abilities to being a part-time reserve for the Celtics, but he had a number of games at the end of the season where he led the team in points, had a few 20+ pt games in as many minutes. No razzle-dazzle showmanship, no slick tricks or sleight of hand. Just fundamental basketball execution.

Both he and Dave Cowans were with the team to start the 80-81 season that the Celtics won the Championship against the Rockets, but both were in street clothes dealing with injuries that would ultimately conclude their professional careers.....

You have his fathers direct quote? 45% shooting when always the defenses object to stop him, special defenses, is good. When he played at LSU only 1 team per conference went to the tournament, 16 total, and that would be Kentucky every year.

 

[ConwayGmck]

You have his fathers direct quote? 45% shooting when always the defenses object to stop him, special defenses, is good. When he played at LSU only 1 team per conference went to the tournament, 16 total, and that would be Kentucky every year.

Not sure what you mean about a direct quote - direct quote about what? Then read what you posted: Maravich shot more than 50% of his team's FG attempts every game, and his team converted on a higher %. So opposing defenses object to stop him? He's a guard with sick handles and handles the ball 95% of every game. And yet he shoots more than 50% of his team's total shot attempts every game.

A CBB head coach over the past 30-40 years would bench a player for doing that in ONE game. Would bench a player who converts 50%+ of his shots, for doing that under those circumstances, if his teammates are shooting better.....