Paige on Naismith Award list

[BRS24]

Paige on POY list, although I would argue that Aaliyah also belongs on it.


And as much as I try not to be a biased homer, I really do think that Geno should be on COY list, as UConn had #2 SOS, 29-5 record, and have 5 players out with injuries that would be in the rotation.

 

[Bone Dog]

Paige on POY list, although I would argue that Aaliyah also belongs on it.


And as much as I try not to be a biased homer, I really do think that Geno should be on COY list, as UConn had #2 SOS, 29-5 record, and have 5 players out with injuries that would be in the rotation.

... and Scott Rueck at Ore St.

 

[Bone Dog]

I'd also love to see an advanced stats comparison of the POY candidates.

 

[Plebe]

Seven seniors (or 6 and one RS junior) plus THREE freshmen

 

[Millenial23]

Seven seniors (or 6 and one RS junior) plus THREE freshmen

I know watkins and hidalgo are freshmen... who is the 3rd?

 

[Plebe]

I know watkins and hidalgo are freshmen... who is the 3rd?

Madison Booker of Texas, Big 12 co-POY

 

[cancontent]

Question. Which NPOY award carries more weight? The Wooden award seems more significant to me because those voters also choose the All-Americans. Am I mistaken?

 

[Cuango]

I’ve gotta say, it seems very puzzling to me that Cardoso is on this list? Her stats are not impressive, especially for someone with her physical advantages. I just don’t get how 14 ppg and 9.5 rebounds translates to a player of the year finalist? I’m sure I will get the tired old “you just dislike her because she plays for SC” thing because I’m a UConn fan. I freely admit I don’t much care for SC (though I respect their coach and what she’s built there) but that is a separate thing. I just don’t think she (Cardoso) belongs there because of her lack of production. I haven’t looked everyone’s stats up but I’d be willing to bet her stats are far and away the lowest on that list. Obviously, someone has to be the lowest but there’s gotta be a whole lot of players whose stats are waaay better, and who are more important to their team’s success. I can think of one on our own team. Aaliyah Edwards scores 17.8 and 9.3. All other stats are comparable except blocks where Cardoso is substantially better but Aaliyah shoots a higher percentage both from the field and the line. On top of the evident superior stats, Aaliyah is clearly more valuable to her team as well! Now, I‘m aware there may be better candidates even than Aaliyah and if there are then they should be on the list. This is not really about Cardoso but rather that it looks to me as though she is getting recognition not because of her production on the court but rather because she plays for the #1 team. Personally, I don’t think that should be the criteria for player of the year.

 

[FormerCTrez]

Seven seniors (or 6 and one RS junior) plus THREE freshmen

Again, it's my belief that the student-athletes who indulge in in-game fights, should be excluded from all end of year awards and honors, such as these. And it shouldn't matter who they are, or which institution(s) they attend. Rewarding them with these honors is like condoning their bad behaviors.
It is okay to play good, hard defense. But when intentional punching, shoving, slapping, etc., occurs, that needs to be excluded from the games. And seeing that the referees turn a blind eye, the nominating powers need to take a firm stand.
Just my two cents.

 

[darrell]

I'd also love to see an advanced stats comparison of the POY candidates.

Sadly won’t fit the CC narrative. Advanced stats point toward Paige Bueckers and Cameron Brink.

 

[Geew1992]

I’ve gotta say, it seems very puzzling to me that Cardoso is on this list? Her stats are not impressive, especially for someone with her physical advantages. I just don’t get how 14 ppg and 9.5 rebounds translates to a player of the year finalist? I’m sure I will get the tired old “you just dislike her because she plays for SC” thing because I’m a UConn fan. I freely admit I don’t much care for SC (though I respect their coach and what she’s built there) but that is a separate thing. I just don’t think she (Cardoso) belongs there because of her lack of production. I haven’t looked everyone’s stats up but I’d be willing to bet her stats are far and away the lowest on that list. Obviously, someone has to be the lowest but there’s gotta be a whole lot of players whose stats are waaay better, and who are more important to their team’s success. I can think of one on our own team. Aaliyah Edwards scores 17.8 and 9.3. All other stats are comparable except blocks where Cardoso is substantially better but Aaliyah shoots a higher percentage both from the field and the line. On top of the evident superior stats, Aaliyah is clearly more valuable to her team as well! Now, I‘m aware there may be better candidates even than Aaliyah and if there are then they should be on the list. This is not really about Cardoso but rather that it looks to me as though she is getting recognition not because of her production on the court but rather because she plays for the #1 team. Personally, I don’t think that should be the criteria for player of the year.

Especially since Aaliyah's numbers are better

 

[Bone Dog]

Sadly won’t fit the CC narrative. Advanced stats point toward Paige Bueckers and Cameron Brink.

Win Shares doesn't, at least according to HHS.
Caitlin leads the pack at 8.5, followed by Paige at 7.8, and Hannah at 7.2 and Brink at 6.5. Caitlin's stat line for this year is darn impressive.

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Traditional and Advanced Statistics for Teams and Players, Leaderboards, Ranks, Team Comparisons, Schedules, Rosters, Game Logs, and more

herhoopstats.com

 

[cancontent]

I’ve gotta say, it seems very puzzling to me that Cardoso is on this list? Her stats are not impressive, especially for someone with her physical advantages. I just don’t get how 14 ppg and 9.5 rebounds translates to a player of the year finalist? I’m sure I will get the tired old “you just dislike her because she plays for SC” thing because I’m a UConn fan. I freely admit I don’t much care for SC (though I respect their coach and what she’s built there) but that is a separate thing. I just don’t think she (Cardoso) belongs there because of her lack of production. I haven’t looked everyone’s stats up but I’d be willing to bet her stats are far and away the lowest on that list. Obviously, someone has to be the lowest but there’s gotta be a whole lot of players whose stats are waaay better, and who are more important to their team’s success. I can think of one on our own team. Aaliyah Edwards scores 17.8 and 9.3. All other stats are comparable except blocks where Cardoso is substantially better but Aaliyah shoots a higher percentage both from the field and the line. On top of the evident superior stats, Aaliyah is clearly more valuable to her team as well! Now, I‘m aware there may be better candidates even than Aaliyah and if there are then they should be on the list. This is not really about Cardoso but rather that it looks to me as though she is getting recognition not because of her production on the court but rather because she plays for the #1 team. Personally, I don’t think that should be the criteria for player of the year.

This is why I'm curious which award actually carries more weight. Wooden or Naismith? The Wooden list doesn't have Booker from Texas as the 15 being considered.

 

[cancontent]

Again, it's my belief that the student-athletes who indulge in in-game fights, should be excluded from all end of year awards and honors, such as these. And it shouldn't matter who they are, or which institution(s) they attend. Rewarding them with these honors is like condoning their bad behaviors.
It is okay to play good, hard defense. But when intentional punching, shoving, slapping, etc., occurs, that needs to be excluded from the games. And seeing that the referees turn a blind eye, the nominating powers need to take a firm stand.
Just my two cents.

You mean disqualified/ejected, correct? Technically Clark could fall into that category as she shoved a player during non-conference play this season if that distinction isn't made.

 

[darrell]

Win Shares doesn't, at least according to HHS.
Caitlin leads the pack at 8.5, followed by Paige at 7.8, and Hannah at 7.2 and Brink at 6.5. Caitlin's stat line for this year is darn impressive.

The #1 source for women's basketball insight used by coaches, broadcasters, players, and fans

Traditional and Advanced Statistics for Teams and Players, Leaderboards, Ranks, Team Comparisons, Schedules, Rosters, Game Logs, and more

herhoopstats.com

Win shares shocks me the least, tbh. Paige has the better Off. Rating, Def. Rating, Points per Possession, Points per Shot Attempt, EFG%, AST:TO. Caitlin is having an incredible year, but I feel like (with Juju as well) Paige’s efficiency gets often overlooked.

 

[jdote33]

I’ve gotta say, it seems very puzzling to me that Cardoso is on this list? Her stats are not impressive, especially for someone with her physical advantages. I just don’t get how 14 ppg and 9.5 rebounds translates to a player of the year finalist? I’m sure I will get the tired old “you just dislike her because she plays for SC” thing because I’m a UConn fan. I freely admit I don’t much care for SC (though I respect their coach and what she’s built there) but that is a separate thing. I just don’t think she (Cardoso) belongs there because of her lack of production. I haven’t looked everyone’s stats up but I’d be willing to bet her stats are far and away the lowest on that list. Obviously, someone has to be the lowest but there’s gotta be a whole lot of players whose stats are waaay better, and who are more important to their team’s success. I can think of one on our own team. Aaliyah Edwards scores 17.8 and 9.3. All other stats are comparable except blocks where Cardoso is substantially better but Aaliyah shoots a higher percentage both from the field and the line. On top of the evident superior stats, Aaliyah is clearly more valuable to her team as well! Now, I‘m aware there may be better candidates even than Aaliyah and if there are then they should be on the list. This is not really about Cardoso but rather that it looks to me as though she is getting recognition not because of her production on the court but rather because she plays for the #1 team. Personally, I don’t think that should be the criteria for player of the year.

In fairness to Kamilla, she is only playing 25 minutes a game. And as you noted it and it's perennially an argument made, she is the best player on the best team, and that team is undefeated which stands out. I personally like it, because I don't think you should be penalized too much for your team being great. Stewie, Sue Bird, Chamique Holdsclaw played on loaded teams where u can make arguments about their value, but they stood out regardless. Even last year I'm sure Aliyah Boston was probably in the running for the award but her stats were actually slightly worse than Kamilla's this year. I actually think AE is a better player than Cardoso, but I get why Cardoso is in consideration. Another question is are they undefeated without Cardoso? They do have great backups, but I actually lean towards no. She's had a pretty strong season and stabilized them in a handful of games.

 

[BigTenGuy]

Win Shares doesn't, at least according to HHS.
Caitlin leads the pack at 8.5, followed by Paige at 7.8, and Hannah at 7.2 and Brink at 6.5. Caitlin's stat line for this year is darn impressive.

The #1 source for women's basketball insight used by coaches, broadcasters, players, and fans

Traditional and Advanced Statistics for Teams and Players, Leaderboards, Ranks, Team Comparisons, Schedules, Rosters, Game Logs, and more

herhoopstats.com

Per*Minutes is similar.

Per*Minutes = an estimate of the total value created by a player via Player Efficiency Rating

1. Caitlin Clark - 50,087
2. Paige Bueckers - 42,101
3. Hannah Hidalgo – 40,364
4. Elizabeth Kitley – 38,759
7. Cameron Brink – 37,131
8. Juju Watkins – 37,023
22. Angel Reese – 32,127
43. Madison Booker – 28,556
71. Jacy Sheldon – 26,499
83. Kamilla Cardoso – 25,801

 

[Bigboote]

And as much as I try not to be a biased homer, I really do think that Geno should be on COY list, as UConn had #2 SOS, 29-5 record, and have 5 players out with injuries that would be in the rotation.

I don't normally post comments like this, but I have a hard time taking seriously a COY award that doesn't have Geno in the top TEN this year. What more are they looking for?

 

[BRS24]

I don't normally post comments like this, but I have a hard time taking seriously a COY award that doesn't have Geno in the top TEN this year. What more are they looking for?

Or the Fairfield coach.

 

[VAUConnFan]

I’ve gotta say, it seems very puzzling to me that Cardoso is on this list? Her stats are not impressive, especially for someone with her physical advantages. I just don’t get how 14 ppg and 9.5 rebounds translates to a player of the year finalist? I’m sure I will get the tired old “you just dislike her because she plays for SC” thing because I’m a UConn fan. I freely admit I don’t much care for SC (though I respect their coach and what she’s built there) but that is a separate thing. I just don’t think she (Cardoso) belongs there because of her lack of production. I haven’t looked everyone’s stats up but I’d be willing to bet her stats are far and away the lowest on that list. Obviously, someone has to be the lowest but there’s gotta be a whole lot of players whose stats are waaay better, and who are more important to their team’s success. I can think of one on our own team. Aaliyah Edwards scores 17.8 and 9.3. All other stats are comparable except blocks where Cardoso is substantially better but Aaliyah shoots a higher percentage both from the field and the line. On top of the evident superior stats, Aaliyah is clearly more valuable to her team as well! Now, I‘m aware there may be better candidates even than Aaliyah and if there are then they should be on the list. This is not really about Cardoso but rather that it looks to me as though she is getting recognition not because of her production on the court but rather because she plays for the #1 team. Personally, I don’t think that should be the criteria for player of the year.

Best player on best team doesn't account for anything?

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Again, it's my belief that the student-athletes who indulge in in-game fights, should be excluded from all end of year awards and honors, such as these. And it shouldn't matter who they are, or which institution(s) they attend. Rewarding them with these honors is like condoning their bad behaviors.
It is okay to play good, hard defense. But when intentional punching, shoving, slapping, etc., occurs, that needs to be excluded from the games. And seeing that the referees turn a blind eye, the nominating powers need to take a firm stand.
Just my two cents.

Jim Mora just started following Cardoso. Just saying.

 

[FormerCTrez]

Jim Mora just started following Cardoso. Just saying.

That’s okay. I just stated my opinion.

 

[visitingcock]

I’ve gotta say, it seems very puzzling to me that Cardoso is on this list? Her stats are not impressive, especially for someone with her physical advantages. I just don’t get how 14 ppg and 9.5 rebounds translates to a player of the year finalist? I’m sure I will get the tired old “you just dislike her because she plays for SC” thing because I’m a UConn fan. I freely admit I don’t much care for SC (though I respect their coach and what she’s built there) but that is a separate thing. I just don’t think she (Cardoso) belongs there because of her lack of production. I haven’t looked everyone’s stats up but I’d be willing to bet her stats are far and away the lowest on that list. Obviously, someone has to be the lowest but there’s gotta be a whole lot of players whose stats are waaay better, and who are more important to their team’s success. I can think of one on our own team. Aaliyah Edwards scores 17.8 and 9.3. All other stats are comparable except blocks where Cardoso is substantially better but Aaliyah shoots a higher percentage both from the field and the line. On top of the evident superior stats, Aaliyah is clearly more valuable to her team as well! Now, I‘m aware there may be better candidates even than Aaliyah and if there are then they should be on the list. This is not really about Cardoso but rather that it looks to me as though she is getting recognition not because of her production on the court but rather because she plays for the #1 team. Personally, I don’t think that should be the criteria for player of the year.

Compare minutes per game when comparing stats

 

[Rowdy831]

Clark is on a team that allows the opponent to run 3 players or more at her on every possession. On one hand that is great because on most teams she wouldn't be able to hoist up shots from mid court but on the other hand she has to make a lot of tough shots. Paige is the best BB player of the group and I don't think it is even that close. Her problem is she is so unselfish she passes up about 6 points a game on shots she would definitely make so a teammate might get one from a couple feet closer.

In the tournament I think you will see the difference between a great player named Paige and the other great players. In big games she hits the big shots and hits the shots that kill the will of the opponent.

 

[FormerCTrez]

You mean disqualified/ejected, correct? Technically Clark could fall into that category as she shoved a player during non-conference play this season if that distinction isn't made.

I can’t comment on past years’ bad behaviors because I’d not paid much attention. However, this year has left me shaking my head over and over, many times. It’s saddening to see, so I believe the player with the intentional foul gets suspended one game, and two games if it’s not the first offense. And players involved in in-game fights (intentional bumping, pushing, shoving, slapping, hair pulling, etc.) should be penalized much harsher —excluded or removed from end of year awards/honors, games, etc. And, it should not matter who the player(s) is/are, as well as the affiliated school(s). The instigators of such brawls need to be punished also.
I know I am an armchair coach, but we must stop rewarding bad behaviors with trophies.

PS: This is my last comment on the topic.

 

[Cuango]

In fairness to Kamilla, she is only playing 25 minutes a game. And as you noted it and it's perennially an argument made, she is the best player on the best team, and that team is undefeated which stands out. I personally like it, because I don't think you should be penalized too much for your team being great. Stewie, Sue Bird, Chamique Holdsclaw played on loaded teams where u can make arguments about their value, but they stood out regardless. Even last year I'm sure Aliyah Boston was probably in the running for the award but her stats were actually slightly worse than Kamilla's this year. I actually think AE is a better player than Cardoso, but I get why Cardoso is in consideration. Another question is are they undefeated without Cardoso? They do have great backups, but I actually lean towards no. She's had a pretty strong season and stabilized them in a handful of games.

First, I don’t agree that she’s the best player on that team. As for the minutes, I tend to doubt if Paige played 20 mnutes and scored 14 ppg that she would be on this list even though she is clearly the best player on our team. When you play on a loaded team like SC, or in normal years, UConn, that is the tradeoff you make. You subsume your individual goals into the overall efficiency of the team. This almost always means that your recognition as an individual is not as great because you are part of something greater than yourself. Your reward is in winning as a team, (usually at a higher rate than if you simply tried to play for individual stats.) in this case as a part of the odds on favorite to win the title.
I agree that Aaliyah is a better player than Cardoso or for that matter, Rickea Jackson. They both, however are being predicted to go higher than Aaliyah in the upcoming draft. Cardoso, even though the lesser player, I can understand as she is 6’7”, but Jackson is a puzzle. Their scoring is about the same, Aaliyah is a better rebounder, better shooter; 59.4% to 47.1%, and is an inch taller at 6’3”! Also, Aaliyah has missed two (I believe but certainly less than 10) games in her entire college career while Rickea has missed 40+! I just don’t get the imo disrespect ( certainly undervaluing) that is being shown our Aaliyah! (I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it!) I mean, I saw one mock draft that had Georgia Amoore, a slow, 5’6”, 42% shooting PG who (with all due respect) will most likely either be (at best) a backup or out of the league within two years, being picked ahead of Aaliyah? (I do think some of the drafts are starting to come to their senses) Somehow I’ve gotten (waay) off the track of my original point so I’ll just say Cardoso should not be a finalist and Aaliyah is going to take the WNBA by storm!

 

[cancontent]

First, I don’t agree that she’s the best player on that team. As for the minutes, I tend to doubt if Paige played 20 mnutes and scored 14 ppg that she would be on this list even though she is clearly the best player on our team. When you play on a loaded team like SC, or in normal years, UConn, that is the tradeoff you make. You subsume your individual goals into the overall efficiency of the team. This almost always means that your recognition as an individual is not as great because you are part of something greater than yourself. Your reward is in winning as a team, (usually at a higher rate than if you simply tried to play for individual stats.) in this case as a part of the odds on favorite to win the title.
I agree that Aaliyah is a better player than Cardoso or for that matter, Rickea Jackson. They both, however are being predicted to go higher than Aaliyah in the upcoming draft. Cardoso, even though the lesser player, I can understand as she is 6’7”, but Jackson is a puzzle. Their scoring is about the same, Aaliyah is a better rebounder, better shooter; 59.4% to 47.1%, and is an inch taller at 6’3”! Also, Aaliyah has missed two (I believe but certainly less than 10) games in her entire college career while Rickea has missed 40+! I just don’t get the imo disrespect ( certainly undervaluing) that is being shown our Aaliyah! (I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it!) I mean, I saw one mock draft that had Georgia Amoore, a slow, 5’6”, 42% shooting PG who (with all due respect) will most likely either be (at best) a backup or out of the league within two years, being picked ahead of Aaliyah? (I do think some of the drafts are starting to come to their senses) Somehow I’ve gotten (waay) off the track of my original point so I’ll just say Cardoso should not be a finalist and Aaliyah is going to take the WNBA by storm!

I think the challenge here is that Jackson and Aaliyah play different positions. These mock drafts are trying to figure out fit when pairing players with teams, not just talent alone. If they were both playing wing/guard or forward it would be impossible to argue that Jackson should be higher in my opinion.

 

[WiseWillie]

I can’t comment on past years’ bad behaviors because I’d not paid much attention. However, this year has left me shaking my head over and over, many times. It’s saddening to see, so I believe the player with the intentional foul gets suspended one game, and two games if it’s not the first offense. And players involved in in-game fights (intentional bumping, pushing, shoving, slapping, hair pulling, etc.) should be penalized much harsher —excluded or removed from end of year awards/honors, games, etc. And, it should not matter who the player(s) is/are, as well as the affiliated school(s). The instigators of such brawls need to be punished also.
I know I am an armchair coach, but we must stop rewarding bad behaviors with trophies.

PS: This is my last comment on the topic.

Agree 100%. It is head shaking to see the frequency of intentional fouls and bad behavior that has increased almost in direct correlation to the level of physicality and lack of fouls being called. In no small way, the response to correct this has to start at the coaching level. They should be held to be similarly responsible along with an at-fault player when it comes to EOY awards. .