Paige Bueckers vs Caitlin Clark [merged thread]

[browns]

A number of BYers were wrong. Last night was a clarified example. Paige shot 66 2/3% from the field, Caitlin shot 28%. The differences are stark. Paige is the smartest defensive player in women's basketball, maybe ever. She anticipates the second or third pass or move and it is just intuitive, That cannot be taught or learned.

Paige has a far superior intermediate game, which I would call a pull up game, and she stops and elevates vertically in classic form which makes that shot so deadly. Caitlin does not have a comparable pull up game. Paige is a brilliant passer, one of the most precise ever. Caitlin is also a great passer but not a pure passer like Paige. Caitlin has far greater range on her 3 ball than Paige but if you can drive like Paige and make moves like her the shooting percentages are going to be better but just not as thrilling.

Paige has something between the ears I have never seen. As I have posted several times, go see her play live from good seats and watch her eyes on defense. Then see how she is in perfect position to intercept the ball seconds later. You will say to yourself "How did she know?". She just does as the great ones all do. That is why she is the best player in women's basketball.

I only worry about her physically. I have written to the NCAA on several occasions regarding the creeping physicality in women's basketball. You saw it rear its ugly head again last night ion both games. It's a beautiful and pure sport as played by our best women's teams and I would like it to stay that way and Paige embodies the best the sport can be.

The smartest defensive player ever..Seriously..did you ever watch Ashley Battle? CC has a great mid range shot and as far as passing

By a 'wide margin?'

South Carolina was 'primed to lose?' Really?

What Paige did in '21-22 was better than what Caitlin did last spring? In what universe other than yours? You occasionally kid on your posts... I hope this was one of those.

And, by the way, Paige hit the deck following numerous drives last night... what was that you were saying about how Caitlin shouldn't be doing that?

Frankly, to compare Clark to Dantley is just one of those 'where on earth did that come from?'

Caitlin and her teammates beat (better than this year) Maryland and Ohio State to win the Big Ten tournament then, along the way to the NCAA final, beat pretty good Georgia and then excellent Colorado, Louisville and South Carolina. UConn's path was 'stronger every step of the way' in '21-22?'

I'm baffled by your inability to appreciate Caitlin's brilliance as a player, Bone Dog, but to each his own. As I've said many times, Paige and Caitlin are different players playing in different playgrounds, with a very different set of circumstances. I love that we have both of them in our world.

Excellent post!

 

[MSGRET]

Clark took a team full of non-All American recruits to the National Championship and were a Jasmine Carson Linsanity run away from winning a championship. She makes her teammates better.

So did Paige her Sophomore year and had two top players on the team missing from that championship game. Clark also had Czinao a first team Big Ten player and NCAA honorable mention.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Lots of great points, BBallF. I don't feel you give Caitlin a fair shake, but you're right about all of Paige's wonderful abilities.

I think Caitlin is a terrific player, and as matter of fact if she played for UConn, she’d be the 2nd best player on the team.

 

[BBallF]

The smartest defensive player ever..Seriously..did you ever watch Ashley Battle? CC has a great mid range shot and as far as passing

Excellent post!

I would take Paige over Ashley Battle for defensive smarts and Clark’s pull up does not compare with Paige’s. Paige has a pure vertical elevation on the spot. They are both great players but it sounds like you prefer Caitlin which I don’t.

 

[AzzisBraids]

They're not comparable to me. Two different kind of parallel talents that do two different kind of things their team needs.

 

[HuskyNan]

Paige had her chance to be a FF hero against Arizona but she came up short with 18 points which is less than Clark's usual average points per game.

Arizona 69-59 UConn (Apr 2, 2021) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Arizona Wildcats vs. UConn Huskies NCAAW game from April 2, 2021 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

In the 2021 -2022 NC game against SCar Paige only scored 14 points. I know she wasn't 100% but that's not Clark's fault. Clark came back to upset SCar last year which is a strange coincidence considering how Paige couldn't deliver more points for whatever reason. Their records reflect their individual accomplishments. Clark has delivered many heroics for Iowa. Paige has delivered many heroics too but aren't as numerous or quite as notable. As a team Iowa had much steeper hills to climb which seems to have given Clark a higher gear as she had to work harder to figure out how to help her team win.

2021 - 2022 NC BOX SCORE

You’re reaching if you’re picking stats from one game in Paige’s career, a Final Four game in a year in which she was named the best player in women’s college basketball.

You are also conveniently overlooking the fact that UConn lost in the Final Four while Iowa lost in the Sweet 16 that year. And who knocked them out? Why, it was Paige and the Huskies. Here they are head-to-head. By the way, that was the first of UConn’s two victories over Caitlin and Iowa, the second being last year.

 

[AgStatesman]

Clark is Meadowlark Lemon while Paige is Oscar Robertson. Sure there's a place in sports for the Globetrotters, but if I want to build a champion - give me Paige every time.

 

[The deacon]

You're cherry picking here.

Yes, many observers had noticed SC's vulnerability in perimeter shooting. And I never said Caitlin didn't play really well, even heroically, in that game.

Yes, Paige hit the floor a few times. But watch the tape and tell me if those were hunting whistles or the result of actual contact or being actually off-balance as the shot required. Denying it just sounds snarky. Everyone here knows Caitlin often used to simply throw herself on the floor as part of a drive. I sincerely hope she doesn't revert to the practice any more.

Yes, I believe Paige's return in 21-22 was a greater achievement than what Caitlin did. You are free to disagree. Paige did more with less, and didn't get any lucky breaks. Her team got every unlucky break imaginable and she still carried them to the NC game. You can try to conceal this by neglecting all the relevant distinctions, but it won't change the truth.

And you know exactly where the Dantley comparison comes from. He was another great scorer who didn't consistently make his teams better. That's always been the knock on Caitlin too. Let's see if she can grow as a player this year.

And I have repeatedly said I think Caitlin is a great player -- and then I've characterized the ways in which she is great and the ways she is a limited player, too. Rather like Dantley was. I can't fathom why you object to this. Surely you're not saying he wasn't a great player, are you???

I'd like to see Iowa succeed this year, maybe make another NC run. I'd also love to see an Iowa-UConn game. That would be wonderful, though I have no doubt as to the result: Paige would engineer a win and Caitlin would have glossy stats.

Please feel free to disagree with me. Just try not to talk as though anyone who disagrees with you must be out of their minds. That's not a great way to defend Caitlin.

Glad to see the lively discourse, as I anticipated when I posted on the 'Clark scores 44' thread last evening.

I never doubt your sanity, Bone Dog, and I apologize that you drew that from my post. We disagree on this one. Perhaps one of us will move toward the other's point of view during this season.

You're easily one of the brightest posters here. Yet at this moment saying things like Paige is easily better than Caitlin just begs a response.

Anyway, as I finished my post a while ago (actually, just before l enjoyed likely my last golf outing of the season):

'I'm baffled by your inability to appreciate Caitlin's brilliance as a player, Bone Dog, but to each his own. As I've said many times, Paige and Caitlin are different players playing in different playgrounds, with a very different set of circumstances. I love that we have both of them in our world.'

That's it, Bone Dog. As you said a few posts ago, now I'll leave it up to others to talk this out.

 

[wingsfan055]

If both healthy, I would take Paige over Clark. Paige has another gear that others can't match. When she's in this zone, she takes over games.

 

[TCC Kid]

Awhile back I started a thread implying that Paige was the best player in WBB. A number of BY’ers suggested, with justification, that the best player in WBB was Caitlin Clark.

The comparison between the two is obvious and appropriate. I do believe this question will continue so long as they both play basketball.

So here’s one comparative datapoint to consider. Last night both Paige and Clark scored 24 pts in their respective games. Paige had 24 points on 15 shots in a 32-point win against 20th ranked MD. Clark had 24 points on 32 shots in a 7-point loss to unranked K-State.

3 Points--Into their career the comparison shall disappear. Now it is shall be for the TV/Media hype they can achieve--not the kids the media's. Paige, if healthy, shall be the more desirable pro/money maker.
Frankly, how Paige ranks or doesn't doesn't matter. DT was the do all, carry all, one player (Maya was THE one player)--Paige as good as she is may not reach the (in college) monument of DT. Paige was assisting and defending--as I have not seen a Uconn do in 3 or more years. I don't see Ms Clark defending that well. I like Caitlin Clark--

 

[TCC Kid]

Clark is Meadowlark Lemon while Paige is Oscar Robertson. Sure there's a place in sports for the Globetrotters, but if I want to build a champion - give me Paige every time.

To be Meadowlark--she'd need a course in acting/comedy/ and play against the GENERALS. He WAS fun.

 

[CL82]

So this guy reads the BY!!!

And posts here from time to time.

 

[MooseJaw]

Good points, Moosejaw... and if you asked the same questions on the Iowa fan forum, don't you think you might get different responses?

Of course, the answer would be different, they are allowed to be wrong. You go to an Iowa game you go to see Clark. If you go to a UCONN game you go to see the Huskies led by Paige. In all honesty by almost every metric Paige is a better all-around player. Deacon, if a case can be made that Clark is a better all-around player, I would enjoy reading their response, I just won't be holding my breath.

 

[Dezoworld]

Awhile back I started a thread implying that Paige was the best player in WBB. A number of BY’ers suggested, with justification, that the best player in WBB was Caitlin Clark.

The comparison between the two is obvious and appropriate. I do believe this question will continue so long as they both play basketball.

So here’s one comparative datapoint to consider. Last night both Paige and Clark scored 24 pts in their respective games. Paige had 24 points on 15 shots in a 32-point win against 20th ranked MD. Clark had 24 points on 32 shots in a 7-point loss to unranked K-State.

And did it in less minutes

 

[Surly1]

Understood. However, Caitlin was 9-32 from the field last night for 35%. Paige was 66 2/3% from the field last night. How many points would Paige have in a given game if she shot 32 times?

For the record, Caitlin has taken over 20 shots in a game 44 times in her career out of a little more than 100 games. Paige has attempted 20+ shots 4 times, all in her freshman campaign, with a high of 26 when she shot 15-26 against SC. In that game, SC knew Paige was going to shoot and still could not stop her. She easily could put up comparable numbers to Caitlin if she upped her attempts per game.

Herein lies the rub. It goes against Paige's nature to force her shot. I can count on one hand the number of bad or forced shots by her at UConn. Contrastingly, Caitlin forced at least 10 uncharacteristic shots, especially from the 3-pt land against K St. This is one area of difference in their games: Paige doesn't force her game to make things happen, while Caitlin wants to make things happen and sometimes forces things.

As Geno has stated previously, nobody makes Paige play at a different speed. She might not be the quickest or most athletic, but her change of direction and pace serves her well. Clark is a demon going north to south, and it's where she's most dangerous, pulling up for a long 3-pt shot or deftly assisting a teammate.

They are both generational talents. While Paige was missing last year, Caitlin picked up the mantle and brought just attention to the women's game. The reason this comparison is occurring now is because Ms Buckets is healthy and reminding everybody of her genius and prowess on the court. If Clark was wearing a UConn uniform, I would be ecstatic, but I would still rate Paige the better overall player.

Finally, Iowa's best shot at a NC was last season. There are too many talented team for Iowa to go on a similar run like last season. Also, it would be close to impossible for Clark to top last year's tourney run. If, and it is a big if, Uconn and Paige especially remain healthy, they have a more realistic shot at making the NC game than Iowa. Mostly because they have the better chess pieces.

 

[BBallF]

For the record, Caitlin has taken over 20 shots in a game 44 times in her career out of a little more than 100 games. Paige has attempted 20+ shots 4 times, all in her freshman campaign, with a high of 26 when she shot 15-26 against SC. In that game, SC knew Paige was going to shoot and still could not stop her. She easily could put up comparable numbers to Caitlin if she upped her attempts per game.

Herein lies the rub. It goes against Paige's nature to force her shot. I can count on one hand the number of bad or forced shots by her at UConn. Contrastingly, Caitlin forced at least 10 uncharacteristic shots, especially from the 3-pt land against K St. This is one area of difference in their games: Paige doesn't force her game to make things happen, while Caitlin wants to make things happen and sometimes forces things.

As Geno has stated previously, nobody makes Paige play at a different speed. She might not be the quickest or most athletic, but her change of direction and pace serves her well. Clark is a demon going north to south, and it's where she's most dangerous, pulling up for a long 3-pt shot or deftly assisting a teammate.

They are both generational talents. While Paige was missing last year, Caitlin picked up the mantle and brought just attention to the women's game. The reason this comparison is occurring now is because Ms Buckets is healthy and reminding everybody of her genius and prowess on the court. If Clark was wearing a UConn uniform, I would be ecstatic, but I would still rate Paige the better overall player.

Finally, Iowa's best shot at a NC was last season. There are too many talented team for Iowa to go on a similar run like last season. Also, it would be close to impossible for Clark to top last year's tourney run. If, and it is a big if, Uconn and Paige especially remain healthy, they have a more realistic shot at making the NC game than Iowa. Mostly because they have the better chess pieces.

All very solid points which I agree with wholeheartedly. The shot selection is another reason why I favor Paige. IMO, she needs to create and shoot more and I think you will see that now going forward. She knows she has to start out offensively for this team to join in.

 

[MilfordHusky]

'Fairly typical,' Milford? Caitlin 'typically' has no steals or blocks, and Paige 'typically' has six steals? Let's have all the comparisons one wants, but that's cherry picking at its very best.

You're taking things too literally. More representative averages:

2020-21 Caitlin 1.3 steals and 0.5 blocks. Paige 2.3 steals and 0.4 blocks.

2023-24 Caitlin 0.8 steals and 0.3 blocks. Paige 2.7 steals and 0.7 blocks.

So, blocks are very similar, but Paige records roughly double the number of steals.

 

[oldude]

As info , Hamilton Neil posted a video today titled, “Paige Bueckers is Better Than Caitlin Clark….”

Yet another boneyard lurker?

 

[Rowdy831]

I've enjoyed reading the many various takes on Bueckers-Clark. As one of Caitlin's frequent 'defenders' here, I'll direct anyone interested to a post I made on the General Forum's 'Clark scores 44' thread late in the Iowa game noting Caitlin clearly was not Caitlin last night. Even early on, she was front-rimming many of her shots, both 3s and short jumpers, and her excellent handle wasn't as controlled as usual.

Whatever the case, she was increasingly ineffective. Sadly, she had no one to pick her up. The last part of the game, when she was firing many of her errant threes, reminded me of the final minutes of the NCAA title game vs. LSU when Iowa was hopelessly out of it and she kept chucking bombs.

As great as she is, Caitlin sometimes falls victim to both her own brilliance and resultant attention, and to the reality that she doesn't have alternatives on her team when the Hawkeyes need points, especially last night when K State's 6'6" Aoki Lee mostly shut off the Hawkeyes' interior game.

All that said, I love all the posts noting how lucky we are to have both Paige and Caitlin to watch, and healthy, too. Fingers crossed that remains a constant throughout the season.

Lee is a big post player that is not very athletic. I am convinced that if she can be effective against teams as a defender then so can Amari. At some point we will need that size to compete on the inside and now is the time to develop that part of the defense.

 

[MSGRET]

Lee is a big post player that is not very athletic. I am convinced that if she can be effective against teams as a defender then so can Amari. At some point we will need that size to compete on the inside and now is the time to develop that part of the defense.

She is in her third year to develop, if she has gotten to more than mop up minutes, what makes you think she will be able to now.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

If both healthy, I would take Paige over Clark. Paige has another gear that others can't match. When she's in this zone, she takes over games.

I’d take Paige or Maddy Siegrist over Clark.

 

[oldude]

She is in her third year to develop, if she has gotten to more than mop up minutes, what makes you think she will be able to now.

The difference between Lee and Amari is aggression. Lee has it and, unfortunately, Amari doesn’t. I have previously stated, half seriously, that I would love to see Amari come into a game and foul out in 5 minutes……..sigh…….

 

[Waquoit]

Huh? Yes, she has 24 points but there were 3 other players in double figures (Iowa had 1) and one with 9 points as did Iowa. KK and Nika has 5 assists each, Iowa had 9 total as a team. UConn was the more complete offensive team last night

Paige is virtually the entire offense. Is that better? Those numbers for the others wouldn't be neraly as good without Paige.

 

[BobbyJ]

Lee is a big post player that is not very athletic. I am convinced that if she can be effective against teams as a defender then so can Amari. At some point we will need that size to compete on the inside and now is the time to develop that part of the defense.

I'm worried that you might be trying to be serious here. She'd get pushed all around the paint and foul out in 10 minutes if she stayed on the floor that long. Auriemma's capable of handling this situation, he's seen enough of her in two years.

 

[Boreifs]

Lee is a big post player that is not very athletic. I am convinced that if she can be effective against teams as a defender then so can Amari. At some point we will need that size to compete on the inside and now is the time to develop that part of the defense.

Sorry, but you are dreaming. Lee scored 61 points in a game two years ago; she is a major talent,

 

[cohenzone]

You are right, she scored 44 points on 13-31 shooting and took half the teams shots. Iowa would be nothing without her, but she is taking too many shots, especially if she is off, whereas maybe one of her teammates could do more if they had the opportunity. Still, I think she is a great player.

Her coach fits in there somewhere. The coach must be good with it or has no confidence in anyone else. She must get arm weary.

 

[Boreifs]

Is there anyone who wouldn’t want both of them on their team. Clark isn’t playing with McDonalds All-Americans; Iowa is usually lucky to get one Top 100 recruit. Let’s wait until both of them have retired from the WNBA; then one will have a basis for comparison.

 

[diggerfoot]

I only want to address a false narrative here that gets repeated consistently. The truth does not favor one player or the other, depending upon how you interpret it, but I just dislike false narratives, this one being that Clark’s teammates were practically scrubs.

First off, you can fail to be an elite talent overall, yet still be a great shooter. The freshman Bueckers had a better shooting percentage than the UConn team as a whole. It was better than any other guard on the team by a wide margin. Her shooting efficiency may even have been better than our posts, though I’m too lazy to look that up right now.

In contrast, Iowa as a whole shot better than the junior Clark. Considering how many shots Clark takes, those poor scrubs that were her teammates actually shot significantly better. I know Warnock and Czinano both did, plus there were two other who shot 60%.

You can interpret this several ways. In Clark’s junior year she played with a roster that had been together for three years, which of course will boost efficiency all the way around. In contrast the freshman Bueckers played with changing line-ups during a turbulent covid year.

No doubt Clark made her teammates better, but it’s also true that her teammates were good shooters playing together for three years under a good coach. Their overall talent may have led to shortcomings on the defensive end, but essentially the junior Clark had more to work with than the freshman Bueckers on offense.

Indeed, comparing their shooting to overall team performance suggests that the freshman Bueckers should have taken more shots to compensate for the team’s inefficiency, while Clark should have taken fewer.

 

[BBallF]

I’d take Paige or Maddy Siegrist over Clark.

Maddy Seigrist over Clark? Interested in the point of view. I see Clark and Paige as our future Olympic backcourt.

 

[DennieEddy]

Paige is UConn's entire offense as well.

When she is, it's because she takes over as the hub, and not the end of the spoke. Little metaphor there, but she does look to distribute, to allocate the offense, and YES, she is one of the distributions and YES a big part of the allocation. But she knows her teammates, and knows their capabilities, and their strong suits and plays to those capabilities and strong suits.