Pac 12 Friday 1/19

[willtalk]

Lotrader-- I suggest you try to watch the replay. Watching things live in an emotional setting can often distort objectivity. My take is not just based on one game alone. I stand by my take on the points focus on one side of the court and lack of over all court vision. If they were truely following the game plan of swinging the ball around the parameter then they would not be getting trapped on one side of the court constantly. But then perhaps my standards for point play are a bit high. Although many factors are involved court vision is not something that be developed. You have it or you don't. The main problem with Oregon St. is they have a lot of good off guards but no real point. This is not an insult to the off guards, but they are what they are and playing out of position. . As a whole they did cut down their turnover margin quite a bit in this game. Generally they all played a good solid game. The thing is that when Slocum becomes eligible one of the off guards will have to come off the bench.

Let me add that not only is their no real point, but the only real two guard is Pivic. Tudor and Williams are both wings. Tudor is physically more suited to be the two because she is quicker, but she lacks the experience at that position since she has always played the wing in high school. I suspect Rueck is trying to transition her to take advantage of that quickness. Williams should be playing the wing. It should be interesting what the coach will do next year.

 

[Plebe]

This was a really huge win for OSU. Their dismal nonconference SOS is weighing like an albatross on their RPI, and they are going to have to win some of these big games in conference to catch up. (This win shot their RPI from the mid-70s to #57 for the moment.)

Oregon really, really, really missed Lexi Bando. The unfamiliar lineup gave up a huge 1st quarter and they couldn't quite recover.

But the Ducks will get their chance at revenge very soon, tomorrow in fact.

 

[CocoHusky]

Don't have Pac 12 network but that looked like a great game between Oregon and Oregon St. Don't know if Tudor was matched up against Ionescu but Tudor's state line was most impressive. 34 Points on only 14 shot attemps-Wow!

 

[LoTrader]

Lotrader-- I suggest you try to watch the replay. Watching things live in an emotional setting can often distort objectivity. My take is not just based on one game alone. I stand by my take on the points focus on one side of the court and lack of over all court vision. If they were truely following the game plan of swinging the ball around the parameter then they would not be getting trapped on one side of the court constantly. But then perhaps my standards for point play are a bit high. Although many factors are involved court vision is not something that be developed. You have it or you don't. The main problem with Oregon St. is they have a lot of good off guards but no real point. This is not an insult to the off guards, but they are what they are and playing out of position. . As a whole they did cut down their turnover margin quite a bit in this game. Generally they all played a good solid game. The thing is that when Slocum becomes eligible one of the off guards will have to come off the bench.

Let me add that not only is their no real point, but the only real two guard is Pivic. Tudor and Williams are both wings. Tudor is physically more suited to be the two because she is quicker, but she lacks the experience at that position since she has always played the wing in high school. I suspect Rueck is trying to transition her to take advantage of that quickness. Williams should be playing the wing. It should be interesting what the coach will do next year.

I completely agree with you that OSU desperately needs a true point guard (Destiny Slocum). Even Sydney Wiess was a wing that had to play point last couple of years. My point is that after seeing every game this year, in person or televised, the OSU coaches have adjusted well since the debacle weekend in Los Angeles (as have the players). OSU's offensive scheme is how it "should be" without a true point guard, and, the Beavers are improving in their offensive execution. It may not look like it to you, but trust me, it is getting optimized for their top 8 players in the rotation. This team can flat out shoot from distance, and have a very, very good BIG in Marie Gulich who's game is giving OSU a balanced inside-outside offense. The teams that give the Beavers fits, are those teams that can keep OSU from getting their offense started early enough in the half court. Beavers had 15 turnovers vs UO which would drive Geno nuts, but the Beavers had 25+ turnovers vs UCLA & 27 turnovers vs USC. OSU has improved their Turnover/Assist ration dramatically in the past 3 games. I wish we had Destiny Slocum in uniform this year, but the Beavers (and Destiny) are getting the benefit of her practicing with the team this year.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

Don't have Pac 12 network but that looked like a great game between Oregon and Oregon St. Don't know if Tudor was matched up against Ionescu but Tudor's state line was most impressive. 34 Points on only 14 shot attemps-Wow!

Oregon had multiple defenders on Tudor (including 6'4 Satou Sabally). It didnt matter. Several of her shots were well guarded but she still hit them. And when i say hit them---they didnt dance around the rim. She swiped the net with each shot. I have the PAC12 network and watch a lot of PAC12 games at night. The Beavers played to win and they did. I dont think this hurts Oregon too much because its a rivalry game and those can go either way. I doubt the Beavers shoot that well in Eugene. We will see on Sunday afternoon.

 

[LoTrader]

Don't have Pac 12 network but that looked like a great game between Oregon and Oregon St. Don't know if Tudor was matched up against Ionescu but Tudor's state line was most impressive. 34 Points on only 14 shot attemps-Wow!

Tudor had every Duck guard/wing covering her last night. 7-10 three pointers vs UO last night, 6-8 three pointers in previous game vs Arizona. Kat (sophomore) has kept a positive attitude since getting shut down during the LA swing. If you haven't seen her quick release, she catches and shoots in one motion. Very difficult to defend. The key to defending her is not letting her get touches, and, bodying up on her and not giving her any space when she does have the ball. OSU has worked hard to keep her on the move, and setting multiple screens. Getting her the ball has also improved as OSU passing around perimeter, and, from the post has improved, giving her enough time to get shots off.

 

[Plebe]

Oregon had multiple defenders on Tudor (including 6'4 Satou Sabally). It didnt matter. Several of her shots were well guarded but she still hit them. And when i say hit them---they didnt dance around the rim. She swiped the net with each shot. I have the PAC12 network and watch a lot of PAC12 games at night. The Beavers played to win and they did. I dont think this hurts Oregon too much because its a rivalry game and those can go either way. I doubt the Beavers shoot that well in Eugene. We will see on Sunday afternoon.

Tudor has one of the prettiest strokes in the game. The way the ball just comes off her fingers, it's just *different*. You have to see it to appreciate it.

 

[LoTrader]

This was a really huge win for OSU. Their dismal nonconference SOS is weighing like an albatross on their RPI, and they are going to have to win some of these big games in conference to catch up. (This win shot their RPI from the mid-70s to #57 for the moment.)

Oregon really, really, really missed Lexi Bando. The unfamiliar lineup gave up a huge 1st quarter and they couldn't quite recover.

But the Ducks will get their chance at revenge very soon, tomorrow in fact.

Oregon did miss Lexi Bando last night. Sabrina finds Bando after penetrating defenses, leaving Bando open to square up and stroke 3's. The Beavers also impressed me last night. They are improving, particularly in their mental toughness (which showed up in critical stops at critical times, as well as hitting big shots which kept the Ducks from getting a head of steam). People forget that the Beavers are a pretty young team, and have lost lots of talent to graduation the past 2 years. Not worried about the Ducks, they are going to be fine come tournament time. They are a very talented team, and I don't see them going on any significant losing streaks in PAC12 play. Ducks are still the favorite to win the PAC12. Tomorrows game will be interesting. I expect a large turnout of Duck fans in Matthew Knight Arena. All the OSU Players commented on how much a difference the OSU crowd made for each of them. If you saw the national anthem sung last night, it was sung by one of the OSU Women's Basketball team members, and it got the players and the crowd fired up last night. OSU got a great contribution from this player and she didn't even get in the game.

 

[LoTrader]

Tudor has one of the prettiest strokes in the game. The way the ball just comes off her fingers, it's just *different*. You have to see it to appreciate it.

Kat's shooting stroke is different. If you can imagine how your youngster shot with 2 hands when they were a little person, Kat actually shoots with 1 1/2 hands, if that makes sense? It almost starts out as a 2 hand shot, but finishes with 1 hand. Hard to visualize from words.

 

[CocoHusky]

Tudor had every Duck guard/wing covering her last night. 7-10 three pointers vs UO last night, 6-8 three pointers in previous game vs Arizona. Kat (sophomore) has kept a positive attitude since getting shut down during the LA swing. If you haven't seen her quick release, she catches and shoots in one motion. Very difficult to defend. The key to defending her is not letting her get touches, and, bodying up on her and not giving her any space when she does have the ball. OSU has worked hard to keep her on the move, and setting multiple screens. Getting her the ball has also improved as OSU passing around perimeter, and, from the post has improved, giving her enough time to get shots off.

Maggie Lucas like in her catch release and she looks like she a little better off the bounce and move than Maggie was. I like will keep an eye out for future OSU games.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Was at Gill Coliseum for the game. Also an OSU graduate who has seen many great games when the Men's Team was #1 in the nation.

My parents went to OSU. I didn't, but I have an affinity for them.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Regarding the impact of Bando's absence from the game, she's been in a bit of a shooting slump lately. She's almost exclusively a spot up 3 point shooter, if she's not hitting them she doesn't contribute much. It's impossible to say since she didn't play, but she might not have had much effect on the outcome if she was on the floor.

 

[triaddukefan]

Was at Gill Coliseum for the game. Also an OSU graduate who has seen many great games when the Men's Team was #1 in the nation. Gill can really rock, and tonight was one of the best OSU performances I've seen in a long time. OSU grew up a whole bunch tonight. For these OSU women, they learned they can not only compete, but can close out games. This was a heavyweight fight, one punch after another, followed by counter punches. Really fun game to be a part of at Gill. While Kat Tudor and Marie Gullich had big scoring games, Katie McWilliams & Pivec also had huge games tonight, just in different ways. McWilliams was the rock tonight defensively, and running the point. I read a few comments about the Beavers inability to penetrate, but if you observe their offensive schemes, they are a team that focuses on being patient with their offense, and working the ball around until they can make the 1st entry pass. From there it is either to hoop from the post or kick out for a 3, and tonight they did a nice job offensively. Marie Gulich was a beast tonight defensively. I also was so proud of her for demanding the ball down low. She was not going to be denied and she showed that she is one of the best low post players in the country, definitely best in PAC12. Fun game, and no doubt the crowd at Gill was a 6th man for the Beavers tonight. It was loud!

I dont remember Oregon State being #1 in basketball.... what year was that?

Just looked at the Box Score for the Duke game earlier in the season.... what has happened to Kaymer? I saw she played 30 minutes vs Duke. Dont remember seeing her in the game last night.

 

[LoTrader]

Regarding the impact of Bando's absence from the game, she's been in a bit of a shooting slump lately. She's almost exclusively a spot up 3 point shooter, if she's not hitting them she doesn't contribute much. It's impossible to say since she didn't play, but she might not have had much effect on the outcome if she was on the floor.

Perhaps. I think it is tough for a team when they lose a starter, especially that 1st game. Team chemistry changes. I remember when OSU lost Sydney Wiess for 8 games in the middle of her junior year.

 

[LoTrader]

I dont remember Oregon State being #1 in basketball.... what year was that?

Just looked at the Box Score for the Duke game earlier in the season.... what has happened to Kaymer? I saw she played 30 minutes vs Duke. Dont remember seeing her in the game last night.

1980-81 Men's basketball. For 8 weeks they were number 1.

 

[triaddukefan]

I have been there twice for games vs USC in 2011 and 2014. I love going to those old buildings, and Gill is old. If Duke ever makes the trip out west you should go. Good atmosphere and I had a great time with a win and loss. About an hour south of Portland on I-5.

Well they came to Durham this season... not sure if that was a one time thing... or if Duke will return the favor next year. There is a charm to an old building..... the Pac 12 has several good ones.... Washington, Oregon State, Cal.

 

[nwhoopfan]

A few other random thoughts. I think McWilliams is closer to being a PG than Pivec is. Pivec has mostly been handling the job this year but it looked like McWilliams took over more last night. Keep in mind she started at the PG for a 7 or 8 game stretch during her Fr. year when Wiese was out w/ an injured hand, and did a credible job. They have a Fr. this year, Goodman, who is supposed to be a PG, but mostly she's been a 3 point sniper. Haven't been particularly impressed w/ her play making or ball handling thus far.

OSU has run a 3 guard lineup for most if not all of Rueck's tenure. At least a year or two previous to the Final 4 run. The 2 and the 3 are fairly interchangeable, doesn't really matter which is which. McWilliams is kind of a jack of all trades, she could play 1-3, and maybe even a bit of stretch 4 w/ her length. I thought she was going to have a break out year last year, but by this point have accepted that she's just not an aggressive player on offense. Tudor on the other hand is developing a scorer's mentality.

Having Slocum available next year will be a big bonus, but Gulic is going to be very hard to replace. I don't think many people realize how good she is. She is WAY better than Hamblin was at this point. They'll have to rely on either the JC transfer Grymek, who looks fairly raw, or one of the pair of incoming freshmen. They'll have a ton of size (all 3 6-6 or taller), but none will be nearly as skilled as Gulic.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I dont remember Oregon State being #1 in basketball.... what year was that?

Just looked at the Box Score for the Duke game earlier in the season.... what has happened to Kaymer? I saw she played 30 minutes vs Duke. Dont remember seeing her in the game last night.

Kalmer was in briefly. Both teams shortened their rotations significantly last night.

 

[triaddukefan]

1980-81 Men's basketball. For 8 weeks they were number 1.

No wonder I didnt remember that.... I was 8 I was in my early years in terms of watching college basketball. I do recall an Oregon State Player in the NBA named Steve Johnson.... was he on that team?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Well they came to Durham this season... not sure if that was a one time thing... or if Duke will return the favor next year. There is a charm to an old building..... the Pac 12 has several good ones.... Washington, Oregon State, Cal.

OSU has had home and home series w/ Tennessee and Notre Dame in recent years, I would assume there will be a return game w/ Duke next season, but I don't know that for sure.

I've been in Hec Ed a bunch of times, I like the atmosphere there. Been in Gill once. Haven't been to any of the other Pac 12 arenas. UCLA and Stanford have been playing in their current homes for quite a while. I think Arizona's been in the McKale Center for decades.

 

[nwhoopfan]

No wonder I didnt remember that.... I was 8 I was in my early years in terms of watching college basketball. I do recall an Oregon State Player in the NBA named Steve Johnson.... was he on that team?

Yes. Some good guards, Mark Bradford, Ray Blume, Lester Conner. Conner was in the NBA for a while.

 

[DefenseBB]

Rueck can flat out coach. The dread of us would be if Tenn woke up, let Holly go and brought him in. One shade of orange for another. With Tenn resources and recruiting, he would be a perennial Final Four participant. Slocum will add to the team next year and these Civil Wars will be really interesting!

 

[triaddukefan]

Yes. Some good guards, Mark Bradford, Ray Blume, Lester Conner. Conner was in the NBA for a while.

I remember the name Lester Conner... didnt know where he went to school.

 

[Plebe]

Perhaps. I think it is tough for a team when they lose a starter, especially that 1st game. Team chemistry changes. I remember when OSU lost Sydney Wiess for 8 games in the middle of her junior year.

Agreed. It runs a lot deeper than whether she's hitting her shots. Floor balance and team chemistry gets altered. Defensively it requires a big adjustment. Starting a big lineup with Hebard-McGwire-Sebally was probably to Oregon's detriment in terms of perimeter defense. The two teams that have beaten OSU in conference were very effective in limiting OSU's 3-point attempts. OU was unable to do that.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I had to google some of the Pac 12 arenas. Maples and Pauley date back to the 60's. McKale early 70's. Gill opened in 1949. Hec Ed opened in 1927!

 

[ochoopsfan]

I had to google some of the Pac 12 arenas. Maples and Pauley date back to the 60's. McKale early 70's. Gill opened in 1949. Hec Ed opened in 1927!

Pauley was gutted and rebuilt about 3-4 years ago. Much nicer building than the older one.
I think Galen center is the most comfortable building to watch a game in, just nobody goes unless it is one of those events for young kids and sometimes vs UCLA.

 

[LoTrader]

Rueck can flat out coach. The dread of us would be if Tenn woke up, let Holly go and brought him in. One shade of orange for another. With Tenn resources and recruiting, he would be a perennial Final Four participant. Slocum will add to the team next year and these Civil Wars will be really interesting!

Amen. Fortunately for OSU, Rueck loves the State of Oregon, attended OSU as a student, and is incredibly supported by fans, players, administrators, etc. Rueck leaving for another university would be a dagger to OSU's current trajectory is Women's basketball. I don't even like to type these words.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Rueck can flat out coach. The dread of us would be if Tenn woke up, let Holly go and brought him in. One shade of orange for another. With Tenn resources and recruiting, he would be a perennial Final Four participant. Slocum will add to the team next year and these Civil Wars will be really interesting!

I think he's already got his dream job. He's an OSU alum, he was born and raised in Oregon and has spent his entire coaching career in the state. Has great community support for the team, probably without the wacko fanaticism that plagues the Vols. I don't think he gets death threats or calls for him to be fired every time they lose a game. Plus he's proven you can get to the Final 4 w/ OSU. I obviously can't speak for him, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay in Corvallis for the rest of his career.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Pauley was gutted and rebuilt about 3-4 years ago.

Hec Ed was refurbished in the early 2000's. I don't know what it looked like before, but I'm pretty sure it was a significant face lift. It really doesn't seem like a nearly 100 year old building when you are inside it.

 

[LoTrader]

Kalmer was in briefly. Both teams shortened their rotations significantly last night.

Was surprised Kalmer didn't play more minutes. Rueck was asked about his short bench, and he said he just felt it was working so well with the starters, that he was stingy with substitutions. He also commented how UO substituted very little in the game. I think Rueck will have to substitute more in the game tomorrow. Overtime games and a quick turnaround against a quality team like UO will be hard for OSU starters (UO starters as well). I think it will be a coaching chess match tomorrow, but UO is very, very good in their building. Hate to say I'd be happy with a split with UO, after winning last night. OSU won a game that most pundits felt they would not win (even at home). They are operating with house money in a sense. But I know Rueck wants to sweep. It means a lot for future recruiting. I am contemplating going to this game tomorrow (4 hours of driving--ARGH) vs watching on the couch. Hmmmmm.