PAC-12 Chaos | Page 18 | The Boneyard

PAC-12 Chaos

UCFBfan said:
Lol!! I've been posting on this board/site for over a decade.....you think I'm a UCF fan?! Lol......how about UConn FootBall Fan as what my name is....
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Yes I’m aware - was just attempting a corny dad joke.
 
One thing the B1G has going for it is that - at least as of now - all members are like-minded institutions. Most are state flagships. All are top academic and research institutions with a large alumni base. That commonality will come in handy if membership numbers go to 20 or more, as it is harder to maintain a consensus on various topics with more voices at the table. Consensus appears to be important to the B1G.

I think a conference of 20 or more would be more difficult to manage in the ACC, where members don't always have a common background. It's more a hodgepodge mixture of academics first, sports first, private, and public non-flagships mixed together with 2 flagships where a few have large alumni bases, but most don't.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Maybe. But the value is tied to who you play. FSU vs Wake isn't as good as Auburn Ole Miss. We know from the days of independent deals that they aren't worth as much. The value comes from a known schedule against quality opponents that also have good fanbases.

In order for us to get where you expect it will go, some of the schools in the top conferences will need to be relegated out. It really should look like the Premier League. 36 top programs. 4 schools get bumped out every year, 4 get promoted in. Will they accept that? Not likely.
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That sort of thing is the breakaway scenario. I think for now the easiest form of relegation will be unequal revenue sharing which the ACC is starting to do. The top 2-3 teams in what's left of the power conferences will get paid double or triple everyone else in the conference. That's going to be the only fair way to keep the breadwinners happy.
 
UConnJim said:
The cable bundle may not be completely on the outs as there is some innovation going on out there.

Our housing development signed up for this:

$83/month for:
500 Mbps speed no data caps
Modem/Router
125+ channels
3 premium channels HBO/Showtime/Cinemax
On Demand
2 DVR cable boxes
Adds ons can be purchased direct like sports packages (already includes the ESPN stuff/SECN. BTN, ACCN, and FS1), other premium channels, higher internet speed,...
I think the price is locked in for 2 years with max price increases in the future of 5%.
You are on your own for wiring your house if you haven't already.

When the condo board announced the bulk deal, I thought the deal was too good to be true, but that is the deal. I am now paying a little extra for some sports channels.

I asked the provider how they could do the deal. They said we are getting a bulk rate, billing is semi annual in advance with one bill going to the association which is much cheaper for the provider (we get charged through our HOA fees), they won't wire your house so they avoid that cost, standardization of equipment and services, and they got all of the housing complex where before some had DISH, some didn't have cable/internet, and some were internet only. Approximately 88% of the complex had internet and 60% had cable previously. Some people wanted to opt out of the deal, but the deal was 100% of the complex or no deal and the board voted to add the expense to annual dues.
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Honestly, this doesnt sound that good to me.
 
hoopsfan22 said:
That sort of thing is the breakaway scenario. I think for now the easiest form of relegation will be unequal revenue sharing which the ACC is starting to do. The top 2-3 teams in what's left of the power conferences will get paid double or triple everyone else in the conference. That's going to be the only fair way to keep the breadwinners happy.
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That's where this is fun. You read what @billybud said, they want more money based on "fan support" not based on performance. The ACC is doing it based on performance. So FSU is still upset. We've seen this throughout the process. UConn feels superior to UMass, Cinci, UCF and many other schools. The Pac schools felt superior to the Big XII schools and wouldn't merge. Well FSU feels superior to everyone in the ACC and probably half the SEC. Doesn't matter if they are, they think they are. Pay for performance still isn't enough when you think you are the prime attraction. I'm sure Rock Bands break up for this reason.
 
billybud said:
People watch top teams....last season, 4 million watched Michigan-Indiana and it wasn't for the quality of the match up.

Almost 2 million watched Clemson murder Boston College...and 2.42 million watched FSU vs Wake Forest
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And 2.3 million watched TCU vs Kansas. GameDay was in Lawrence "ESPN says it was the most watched pre-November GameDay show since 2010 and sixth-most watched episode since the show expanded in 2013." But you wouldn't consider Kansas a football draw, right? TCU was good but nobody confuses them with Michigan as a draw.

I won't begrudge that FSU has lots of fans. But any of these schools can have a lot of fans if they do the right things. UConn too.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
And 2.3 million watched TCU vs Kansas. GameDay was in Lawrence "ESPN says it was the most watched pre-November GameDay show since 2010 and sixth-most watched episode since the show expanded in 2013." But you wouldn't consider Kansas a football draw, right? TCU was good but nobody confuses them with Michigan as a draw.

I won't begrudge that FSU has lots of fans. But any of these schools can have a lot of fans if they do the right things. UConn too.
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I am like 87% sure that the bulk of those fans were tuning in to watch TCU.
 
I can’t even imagine cable. It’s been years now with YTTV and other streaming channels and there’s not a thing I miss of the awful Comcast customer service. I’m so much happier without it. I can’t believe people still overpay for that chit.
 
Let’s say Zona, ASU and UConn to the big12z What would the 5 leftover PAC schools rather do, join the Mtn West or keep the PAC10 name and try to add 5 schools?

West Division:
Wazzu
OSU
Cal
Stanford
SDSU

East Division:
Boise
UNLV
Utah
SMU
Tulane
 
CL82 said:
I am like 87% sure that the bulk of those fans were tuning in to watch TCU.
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On a day when GameDay was at KU for the first time? You're crazy. KU was ranked #18 and TCU #17. The KU QB was a Heisman candidate. He got hurt in the first quarter of that game and it was a blowout. Season went down hill from there.

KU is like UConn. If UConn was #18 and playing #17 TCU at home, with ESPN at the Rent, would people in CT tune in? I think so.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
On a day when GameDay was at KU for the first time? You're crazy. KU was ranked #18 and TCU #17. The KU QB was a Heisman candidate. He got hurt in the first quarter of that game and it was a blowout. Season went down hill from there.

KU is like UConn. If UConn was #18 and playing #17 TCU at home, with ESPN at the Rent, would people in CT tune in? I think so.
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TCU was the higher ranked team. There you have it.
 
Rufus said:
This was very informative.........

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I hear you, but this guy has really studied it. Two quotes resonated with me...."the northeast is a lost region" (he believes college football gave up on it years ago) and "Conferences are looking for regional dominance". One was a gut punch but the other could be an opportunity for someone with a long-term vision.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
You realize this is not a Big 10 board, right?
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You realize this is a PAC 12 thread, right? Half of the PAC 12 is potentially headed to the B1G.

So anal.
 
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Seamus84 said:
I hear you, but this guy has really studied it. Two quotes resonated with me...."the northeast is a lost region" (he believes college football gave up on it years ago) and "Conferences are looking for regional dominance". One was a gut punch but the other could be an opportunity for someone with a long-term vision.
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I remember those quotes too.

This presentation made me more convinced than ever that Notre Dame will remain independent, but it is interesting that the hold up to their NBC contract renewal is that NBC is insisting that Notre Dame form a scheduling agreement with the B1G or just flat out schedule more B1G games because those matchups draw the highest ratings. Plus, it gives NBC (and CBS/FOX) access to Notre Dame away games. The holdup isn't the money, it's the insistence on Notre Dame playing more B1G games.

Other key takeaways:

FOX, NBC and CBS are trying to consolidate all non-SEC teams that can draw 4 million + viewers into the B1G and have B1G programming an essential part of their inventory going forward into the future world of streaming. This is why FSU and Clemson may make the cut ahead of Stanford and Cal, even though Stanford and Cal as universities fit the B1G mold the most.

There was a good mix of praising the Big 12 for what it has done/is doing, while at the same time putting them in their place that the only reason they are pulling this off is because these are all schools that neither the SEC or B1G want.

I loved this history lesson too. I had no idea that the Penn Quakers used to draw 80,000 fans at a time Penn State was lucky to draw 25,000. Had the Ivy League remained committed to the highest level of football, the northeast corridor might have looked different today in terms of fan passion and top-level recruits. When the Ivy stopped caring, so did most of the fans in the northeast who moved on to professional sports.

No one knows the answer to how big is too big in terms of an actual number of teams in a conference. The answer is however many teams are profitable enough to bring in. 20 - 24- 30 - They can't tell us. Depends on the financials. My gut instinct is tell me it's going to be either 20 or 24. I think it will go over 20 if Stanford and Cal join the B1G. But what do I know?

When he talked about the SEC's future problem of not having a full day's worth of coast-to-coast inventory, that is something I never even considered. The graph that showed game ratings on network TV vs. cable was telling. Especially since the cable channels are losing subscribers. The only games the SEC will be able to compare to the B1G in ratings will be the ones that air on ABC. The ESPN games will all rank lower than the games on NBC, Fox and CBS. I had no idea the ratings between network TV games and cable TV games were so far apart!

I felt like a sponge soaking up everything watching that video.
 
Rufus said:
There was a good mix of praising the Big 12 for what it has done/is doing, while at the same time putting them in their place that the only reason they are pulling this off is because these are all schools that neither the SEC or B1G want.
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It's ironic, but this is a palpable strength of the Big 12.
 
Rufus said:
I remember those quotes too.

This presentation made me more convinced than ever that Notre Dame will remain independent, but it is interesting that the hold up to their NBC contract renewal is that NBC is insisting that Notre Dame form a scheduling agreement with the B1G or just flat out schedule more B1G games because those matchups draw the highest ratings. Plus, it gives NBC (and CBS/FOX) access to Notre Dame away games. The holdup isn't the money, it's the insistence on Notre Dame playing more B1G games.

Other key takeaways:

FOX, NBC and CBS are trying to consolidate all non-SEC teams that can draw 4 million + viewers into the B1G and have B1G programming an essential part of their inventory going forward into the future world of streaming. This is why FSU and Clemson may make the cut ahead of Stanford and Cal, even though Stanford and Cal as universities fit the B1G mold the most.

There was a good mix of praising the Big 12 for what it has done/is doing, while at the same time putting them in their place that the only reason they are pulling this off is because these are all schools that neither the SEC or B1G want.

I loved this history lesson too. I had no idea that the Penn Quakers used to draw 80,000 fans at a time Penn State was lucky to draw 25,000. Had the Ivy League remained committed to the highest level of football, the northeast corridor might have looked different today in terms of fan passion and top-level recruits. When the Ivy stopped caring, so did most of the fans in the northeast who moved on to professional sports.

No one knows the answer to how big is too big in terms of an actual number of teams in a conference. The answer is however many teams are profitable enough to bring in. 20 - 24- 30 - They can't tell us. Depends on the financials. My gut instinct is tell me it's going to be either 20 or 24. I think it will go over 20 if Stanford and Cal join the B1G. But what do I know?

When he talked about the SEC's future problem of not having a full day's worth of coast-to-coast inventory, that is something I never even considered. The graph that showed game ratings on network TV vs. cable was telling. Especially since the cable channels are losing subscribers. The only games the SEC will be able to compare to the B1G in ratings will be the ones that air on ABC. The ESPN games will all rank lower than the games on NBC, Fox and CBS. I had no idea the ratings between network TV games and cable TV games were so far apart!

I felt like a sponge soaking up everything watching that video.
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There are 131 programs in FBS, and he painted a very bleak picture for any school not in the top 2-3 conferences. Assuming the B10, SEC and B12 each have 24 teams that means that 60 programs will wither on the vine and schools will eventually be forced to drop football. Not immediately but soon enough. The multiplier effect to the other sports - esp MBB - would be massive. While I can 100% see how market forces could make that happen, I struggle to believe (or don’t want to) the college experience could change so drastically for so many schools.
 
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Seamus84 said:
There are 131 programs in FBS, and he painted a very bleak picture for any school not in the top 2-3 conferences. Assuming the B10, SEC and B12 each have 24 teams that means that 60 programs will wither on the vine and schools will eventually be forced to drop football. Not immediately but soon enough. The multiplier effect to the other sports - esp MBB - would be massive. While I can 100% see how market forces could make that happen, I struggle to believe (or don’t want to) the college experience could change so drastically for so many schools.
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What everyone but apparently message board posters can figure out is that if 70% of D1 athletic programs went away, the remaining 30% would be worth 10% of their current value. College sports is unique among sports entertainment worldwide in that everyone is either directly connected to a school, and knows people that are directly connected to schools. That direct connection to some schools creates interest to other schools and the two major sports as a whole. If the P2 pull that away, they won't simply absorb the fans from the schools that were kicked out. Those fans will go away.

And as I have said before, if the number of teams gets concentrated enough, the NFL and NBA will just step in, squash college sports, and create a minor league in its place. The only reason those two leagues allow a multi-billion dollar enterprise of college athletics to exist is because it is too hard to create the network of fan interest and rivalries that exists between 125 D1 football programs and 350 D1 basketball programs.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
What everyone but apparently message board posters can figure out is that if 70% of D1 athletic programs went away, the remaining 30% would be worth 10% of their current value. College sports is unique among sports entertainment worldwide in that everyone is either directly connected to a school, and knows people that are directly connected to schools. That direct connection to some schools creates interest to other schools and the two major sports as a whole. If the P2 pull that away, they won't simply absorb the fans from the schools that were kicked out. Those fans will go away.

And as I have said before, if the number of teams gets concentrated enough, the NFL and NBA will just step in, squash college sports, and create a minor league in its place. The only reason those two leagues allow a multi-billion dollar enterprise of college athletics to exist is because it is too hard to create the network of fan interest and rivalries that exists between 125 D1 football programs and 350 D1 basketball programs.
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Yep, it's insane. They're intentionally destroying college sports.
 
Kliavkoff has done a fantastic job in protecting his members. 12 months ago, the Big 10 tried to gut the league, and many expected it to be dead in the water. When it looked like the Pac 12 might get a media deal, ESPN/Big 12 launched a full blown PR campaign to try to destroy the league.

Despite that, Kliavkoff got a deal from a credible source, Apple, that is not bad. It sets a floor for his members in their negotiations with other leagues, and has panicked the linear networks, who after declining the Big 10's and Big 12's overtures to fund adding members, are now suddenly at the table. If 7-8 of the remaining 10 Pac 12 schools find a home, it will be because of Kliavkoff.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
What everyone but apparently message board posters can figure out is that if 70% of D1 athletic programs went away, the remaining 30% would be worth 10% of their current value. College sports is unique among sports entertainment worldwide in that everyone is either directly connected to a school, and knows people that are directly connected to schools. That direct connection to some schools creates interest to other schools and the two major sports as a whole. If the P2 pull that away, they won't simply absorb the fans from the schools that were kicked out. Those fans will go away.

And as I have said before, if the number of teams gets concentrated enough, the NFL and NBA will just step in, squash college sports, and create a minor league in its place. The only reason those two leagues allow a multi-billion dollar enterprise of college athletics to exist is because it is too hard to create the network of fan interest and rivalries that exists between 125 D1 football programs and 350 D1 basketball programs.
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Fans at other message boards like Pitt, syracusefan.com, and others in the PAC and ACC all feel the same way. They are ruining college football and no one seems to care. There will be plenty of fans and talented football players for the programs who seemingly get left out, but they have to play somewhere.

Let's say AZ and ASU get invited tonight. Let's also remember who coaches the ASU basketball team. That's where I'm placing all my chips.
 
Seamus84 said:
There are 131 programs in FBS, and he painted a very bleak picture for any school not in the top 2-3 conferences. Assuming the B10, SEC and B12 each have 24 teams that means that 60 programs will wither on the vine and schools will eventually be forced to drop football. Not immediately but soon enough. The multiplier effect to the other sports - esp MBB - would be massive. While I can 100% see how market forces could make that happen, I struggle to believe (or don’t want to) the college experience could change so drastically for so many schools.
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My son an I felt it would be three conferences with 22. Hate this direction.
 
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