Ouch, Buzz Williams doesn't believe in NBE

[nelsonmuntz]

That's a fallacy. The 4 million for the BE was the price FOX paid to get a conference that would sign up for less exposure on a network that isn't established. This is the same reason why the AAC wouldn't agree to NBC's terrible offer.

ESPN had the right of first refusal on NBC's offer, so they offered us exactly the same thing. ESPN owns our athletic program as long as we are in the AAC, and never has to pay us for it. That is the beauty of a right of first refusal.

You would think that anyone that cares an iota about the university would realize that we need to get as far away from ESPN as fast as we can. That network will destroy our athletic program if it gets its way.

 

[zls44]

That network will destroy our athletic program if it gets its way.

Lololol

 

[Husky25]

Case-studies in Accounting and Finance Classes occur largely in a vacuum and theory is very different than practical purposes. Take Trickledown Economics, for example. The theory is you help businesses and upper income levels to improve the economy as a whole. In practice however, the benefit never reaches/helps the masses.

The current conference environment is a fluid situation, regardless of it's current dormancy.

I said it in another thread. Maybe a couple posters missed it, maybe they ignore me (I don't care), I'll say it again here. Not many believe that the AAC is ideal, but desire to get out of the conference and saying the only viable option is Football independence and a lower mid-major for all other sports are mutually exclusive. Football independence puts a ceiling on any possible positive movement.

 

[ZooCougar]

ESPN had the right of first refusal on NBC's offer, so they offered us exactly the same thing. ESPN owns our athletic program as long as we are in the AAC, and never has to pay us for it. That is the beauty of a right of first refusal.

You would think that anyone that cares an iota about the university would realize that we need to get as far away from ESPN as fast as we can. That network will destroy our athletic program if it gets its way.

So we should take the deal that gives us 2 million and almost no exposure on a forgotten corner of cable tv over the 2 million and having every game on TV.

Are you you completely stupid?

 

[ZooCougar]

And there is no love affair with this "AAC". I see it as a construct that fills our schedules gets us crappy bowl tie ins. Versus being independent and never getting to a bowl.

I would gladly snuff out this conference with a pillow after we are done with it.

 

[UConnDan97]

So we should take the deal that gives us 2 million and almost no exposure on a forgotten corner of cable tv over the 2 million and having every game on TV.

Are you you completely stupid?

Zoo, you have to understand that Nelson has set his stance, and he has no intention of changing it.

1) If you bring up the overall price tag from the NBE network deal as not being as high as he's reporting, he'll mention NCAA credits. If you bring up the fact that we'll get NCAA credits too (and more of them), then he'll mention one-time payments.

2) If you mention that our one-time payments are larger than the NBE, then he'll mention that they have a 12-year tv contract.

3) If you mention that having a 6-year contract is better because we'll be able to re-negotiate to a larger sum sooner rather than later, he'll mention some other ridiculous statement.

So arguing with him at this point is an exercise in futility. I don't even bother to address him on this issue anymore, because he is hell-bent on his NBE - Indy football ideology...

 

[ZooCougar]

Zoo, you have to understand that Nelson has set his stance, and he has no intention of changing it.

1) If you bring up the overall price tag from the NBE network deal as not being as high as he's reporting, he'll mention NCAA credits. If you bring up the fact that we'll get NCAA credits too (and more of them), then he'll mention one-time payments.

2) If you mention that our one-time payments are larger than the NBE, then he'll mention that they have a 12-year tv contract.

3) If you mention that having a 6-year contract is better because we'll be able to re-negotiate to a larger sum sooner rather than later, he'll mention some other ridiculous statement.

So arguing with him at this point is an exercise in futility. I don't even bother to address him on this issue anymore, because he is hell-bent on his NBE - Indy football ideology...

He is the king of the circular fallacy.

 

[Adios]

He is the king of the circular fallacy.

And the king of message board attention-w***ing. Always beating his rattle (aka computer) as loud as he can.

 

[whaler11]

The Dianetics?
The Magic Carpets?
The My-Own-Planets?
The Non-Glib?
The Cruises?
The Travoltas?
Hubbards Cupboards?

Obviously it's Thetans

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Zoo, you have to understand that Nelson has set his stance, and he has no intention of changing it.

1) If you bring up the overall price tag from the NBE network deal as not being as high as he's reporting, he'll mention NCAA credits. If you bring up the fact that we'll get NCAA credits too (and more of them), then he'll mention one-time payments.

2) If you mention that our one-time payments are larger than the NBE, then he'll mention that they have a 12-year tv contract.

3) If you mention that having a 6-year contract is better because we'll be able to re-negotiate to a larger sum sooner rather than later, he'll mention some other ridiculous statement.

So arguing with him at this point is an exercise in futility. I don't even bother to address him on this issue anymore, because he is hell-bent on his NBE - Indy football ideology...

The main issue I am stubborn on is pointing out the stupidity of the current strategy. I am hell bent on getting more money for the athletic program because the path we are on is guaranteed to result in all three major programs being flushed down the toilet. There are three things any strategy has to address:

Money: If you have a plan that will get more money for the athletic program, I am all ears. If there is a way for the departing schools to pay their exit fees again if we stay in the AAC, then this conference is viable for us. If we can somehow trick the NCAA into paying the tournament credits for Syracuse, Pitt, Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, Louisville and the rest of the departing schools to the AAC, then this conference is viable for us. If the AAC has a secret money machine that spits out $20's all day to AAC members, then this conference is viable for us. $2MM a year from the network TV contract is not viable.

Schedule: The schedule is not viable. We are in a southern mid-major conference and the attendance at UConn home games reflects that. We need more local teams and better teams on the schedule. If the AAC programs get better, then that helps a lot. I don't know how that happens on $2MM a year from the TV contract.

Network Partners: ESPN is not an ally. This network has screwed us every step of the way. Hoping for a different result in the future is the very definition of both stupidity and insanity.

BE/Independence option addresses all those points. If you have another solution that addresses these three issues, then I will be the first to jump on the bandwagon with you. If you are going to continue to attack the NBE because you don't like the basketball schools, then I will continue to point out how wrong you and the rest of them are.

 

[noeynox]

I actually see how Nelson's plan could work. Seriously. If Fox financed UConn's move to the Big East by awarding the football side a similar deal to the one ESPN gave BYU for their football content. Fox could also encourage/leverage/negotiate games in football between their football properties, Pac 12, Big 12, Big Ten, and UConn. Problem is there appear to be too many moving parts and too expensive for Fox to be willing to do it. Unlike most I don't think Nelson's idea is crazy, it is just that it would be difficult/expensive for Fox to to take the plunge, but if they could convince(pay enough) one the other conferences to agree to four home and home contests against us yearly, you'd be halfway to a plan. It is not totally crazy. Heck our women's team is pulling in almost 2 mill a year in TV rights. The UConn brand has real value.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I actually see how Nelson's plan could work. Seriously. If Fox financed UConn's move to the Big East by awarding the football side a similar deal to the one ESPN gave BYU for their football content. Fox could also encourage/leverage/negotiate games in football between their football properties, Pac 12, Big 12, Big Ten, and UConn. Problem is there appear to be too many moving parts and too expensive for Fox to be willing to do it. Unlike most I don't think Nelson's idea is crazy, it is just that it would be difficult/expensive for Fox to to take the plunge, but if they could convince(pay enough) one the other conferences to agree to four home and home contests against us yearly, you'd be halfway to a plan. It is not totally crazy. Heck our women's team is pulling in almost 2 mill a year in TV rights. The UConn brand has real value.

Thank you.

The other thing my plan does is set a market value for UConn broadcast rights above the $2MM we are currently receiving. You don't prove you deserve more money by agreeing to work for less for 10 years. If UConn can not generate $5-8 million in broadcast revenue as an independent, why would the ACC or Big 10 offer to pay 2-3x that with a full membership?

 

[noeynox]

Thank you.

The other thing my plan does is set a market value for UConn broadcast rights above the $2MM we are currently receiving. You don't prove you deserve more money by agreeing to work for less for 10 years. If UConn can not generate $5-8 million in broadcast revenue as an independent, why would the ACC or Big 10 offer to pay 2-3x that with a full membership?

The overall plan has to outweigh/outrevenue what they'd be receiving from the exit fees+the 10 million or more exit fee/27 month waiting period. Like I said, I could see how what you are proposing could work, but there are many, many moving parts and expenses would pile up on mutliple sides. That said, it could work.

 

[itgoeslike]

In life and business it's all about timing. For now, it doesn't make sense for UConn to go indy. Maybe in 4 years it might. Here's why:

- ESPN and CBS TV contracts
- BCS payout - The AAC received a full share of BCS revenue this year
- Playoff Payout - G5 receives 27% of Playoff revenue, which represents roughly $100M ($20M per conference)
- Premiere Bowl game should an AAC team be selected
- Contract Bowl revenue
- AAC Football Championship revenue
- NCAA Credits - They get paid out in rolling 6 year installments
- AAC Basketball Championship revenue
- Add $4 to $6.7M annually (depending upon payout schedule) for exit fees and other income

When you add up everything, UConn would need a lot more than $5-$7M to replace the revenue outline above. It's important to note that the NBE and BYU are excluded or marginalized from receiving most of this revenue. It is true that UConn is subsidizing other teams in our conference and at some point down the road it could make sense to go Indy. However, we need to build our football brand to maximize return on any future contract. Being featured on nationally televised games week in and week out helps.

When the exit fee money begins to dry up, we will need to evaluate our options. But the goal is to be in a better place before that. If not, I may be leading the charge to go Indy, but that is still years away.

 

[itgoeslike]

Noey brought up another good point, which I didn't include in my post. The exit fee payout and future revenue forfeiture also needs to be factored in.

 

[noeynox]

In life and business it's all about timing. For now, it doesn't make sense for UConn to go indy. Maybe in 4 years it might. Here's why:

- ESPN and CBS TV contracts
- BCS payout - The AAC received a full share of BCS revenue this year
- Playoff Payout - G5 receives 27% of Playoff revenue, which represents roughly $100M ($20M per conference)
- Premiere Bowl game should an AAC team be selected
- Contract Bowl revenue
- AAC Football Championship revenue
- NCAA Credits - They get paid out in rolling 6 year installments
- AAC Basketball Championship revenue
- Add $4 to $6.7M annually (depending upon payout schedule) for exit fees and other income

When you add up everything, UConn would need a lot more than $5-$7M to replace the revenue outline above. It's important to note that the NBE and BYU are excluded or marginalized from receiving most of this revenue. It is true that UConn is subsidizing other teams in our conference and at some point down the road it could make sense to go Indy. However, we need to build our football brand to maximize return on any future contract. Being featured on nationally televised games week in and week out helps.

When the exit fee money begins to dry up, we will need to evaluate our options. But the goal is to be in a better place before that. If not, I may be leading the charge to go Indy, but that is still years away.

You laid out even more of the moving parts. I'm more in line with what you're thinking/proposing. The closer we get to the exit fee/well drying up the more the indy in football proposition will have to be considered. It is such a huge move, that I really think the total TV revenue numbrer would have to be at least 12-13 million a year to be worth it. Simply a guess on my part. For now it is probably a non starter, but what Nelson is proposing isn't as insane as some here make it sound.

 

[itgoeslike]

You laid out even more of the moving parts. I'm more in line with what you're thinking/proposing. The closer we get to the exit fee/well drying up the more the indy in football proposition will have to be considered. It is such a huge move, that I really think the total TV revenue numbrer would have to be at least 12-13 million a year to be worth it. Simply a guess on my part. For now it is probably a non starter, but what Nelson is proposing isn't as insane as some here make it sound.

Going indy has it's own set of challenges. It could make sense, or not, depending upon how the landscape looks 3-4 years out. The problem I have with Nelson's position, aside from it often being void of facts, is that it undermines UConn's current situation. For now, it makes sense to want the AAC to be as it good as it can be, to the extent it benefits UConn. He's also flat out wrong that there is a financial benefit to joining the NBE. That's a fallacy, at least for the next 3 years. Of course, the ultimately end game is to land in a good spot, and avoid having to consider going indy altogether.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Going indy has it's own set of challenges. It could make sense, or not, depending upon how the landscape looks 3-4 years out. The problem I have with Nelson's position, aside from it often being void of facts, is that it undermines UConn's current situation. For now, it makes sense to want the AAC to be as it good as it can be, to the extent it benefits UConn. He's also flat out wrong that there is a financial benefit to joining the NBE. That's a fallacy, at least for the next 3 years. Of course, the ultimately end game is to land in a good spot, and avoid having to consider going indy altogether.

I am not flat out wrong about the NBE being better financially than the AAC. The math is pretty freaking simple. Depaul gets 2x what we get. What don't you understand about that? Is it clearer to you if I say Seton Hall gets 2x what we get? How about Providence getting 2x what we get? Let me know if you still don't get it.

You are arguing that the Big East exit fees influence the decision, and then conflating those with being in the AAC. Let me make one thing clear for you, which I have said before:

I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THE BIG EAST EXIT FEES MATTER.

Stop acting like you have some tremendous insight with that. And stop conflating the Big East exit fees with the AAC economics. They are separate, unless you have some way to create a new stream of exit fees in the future.

Now, what you have also done, is stretch out how far the Big East exit fees are getting paid. Do you have a link that breaks that down? Is it straight line or declining? I also have not seen a link defining the new AAC exit penalty and timetable. $10MM was equal to a about 1.5x the conference payout in the Big East. Now $10MM would be equal to closer to 2.0x the annual conference payout. Maybe it is still $10MM, but i would like to see a link for that.

http://cincyontheprowl.com/2013/05/...nati-could-be-10-million-less-than-projected/

That is $20MM, of which it is safe to assume we have already earned $4MM, and maybe we are closer to $8MM. Do we hang on to the bitter end of those exit fees, or do we start working the networks for a better deal before that revenue stream runs out?

The playoff money for the G5 conferences does not cut out Army, Navy and BYU. I am sure they get their fair share, so going indy should be neutral on that basis.

 

[UConnDan97]

Uggh. Look, there are 2 rules to understand right now:

Rule #1: Football independence will be the death of UConn football.

Rule #2: If you believe that it won't be the death of UConn football, go back to rule #1.

There is a reason why, even with their own tv deal, that BYU was seriously and heavily considering joining the Big East not too long ago. And with the conferences all moving to 9 game in-conference schedules, it is becoming increasingly difficult to create a 12 game schedule as an indy. So unless you enjoy having your home slate be Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State, etc., then I suggest you all leave this football independence idea in the crapper where it belongs...

 

[Stray_Dog]

And there is no love affair with this "AAC". I see it as a construct that fills our schedules gets us crappy bowl tie ins. Versus being independent and never getting to a bowl.

I would gladly snuff out this conference with a pillow after we are done with it.

Me, I'll be happy to walk away (in a very gingerly fashion) and not look back. Believe me, whatever happens to this conference will be sad for those still in it after we depart. I'll feel bad for a majority of those schools, but will be very happy to know we are out of that purgatory -soon to be Hel!

 

[ZooCougar]

Uggh. Look, there are 2 rules to understand right now:

Rule #1: Football independence will be the death of UConn football.

Rule #2: If you believe that it won't be the death of UConn football, go back to rule #1.

There is a reason why, even with their own tv deal, that BYU was seriously and heavily considering joining the Big East not too long ago. And with the conferences all moving to 9 game in-conference schedules, it is becoming increasingly difficult to create a 12 game schedule as an indy. So unless you enjoy having your home slate be Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State, etc., then I suggest you all leave this football independence idea in the crapper where it belongs...

As an Indy, we could go 12-0 and still not make a bowl.

 

[itgoeslike]

Nelson said: I am not flat out wrong about the NBE being better financially than the AAC. The math is pretty freaking simple. Depaul gets 2x what we get. What don't you understand about that? Is it clearer to you if I say Seton Hall gets 2x what we get? How about Providence getting 2x what we get? Let me know if you still don't get it.

You are using a single data point to craft your position. When considered in its totality you'll realize that:

• Depaul won't see any of the BCS payout in the current year
• Depaul won't see any of the G5 payout for new playoff system which is valued around $20M per conference
• Depaul won't see any revenue generated from an elite bowl appearance
• Depaul won't see any revenue generated from contract bowls
• Depaul won't see any revenue from a football program that's still in the black
• Depaul won't see any of prorated NCAA credits dating back to 5 years ago as well as NCAA credits earned last year (*see below)
• Depaul wont' have the national visibility that AAC teams will have, which can be leveraged
• Depaul won't receive $4M-$6.7M a year that UConn, Cincy and South Florida will receive
• Depaul won't receive any revenue from Louisville and/or Rutgers exit fees

Now let's throw a $10M exit fee (or more) and forfeit future revenue to join the NBE. Still think it makes economic sense?

Nelson said: You are arguing that the Big East exit fees influence the decision, and then conflating those with being in the AAC. Let me make one thing clear for you, which I have said before:

I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THE BIG EAST EXIT FEES MATTER.

Good, since they do matter, why would it be removed from the equation?

Nelson Said: Stop acting like you have some tremendous insight with that. And stop conflating the Big East exit fees with the AAC economics. They are separate, unless you have some way to create a new stream of exit fees in the future.

They are not separate. I worry about UConn economics.

Nelson Said: Now, what you have also done, is stretch out how far the Big East exit fees are getting paid. Do you have a link that breaks that down? Is it straight line or declining? I also have not seen a link defining the new AAC exit penalty and timetable. $10MM was equal to a about 1.5x the conference payout in the Big East. Now $10MM would be equal to closer to 2.0x the annual conference payout. Maybe it is still $10MM, but i would like to see a link for that.

http://cincyontheprowl.com/2013/05/21/big-east-payout-to-cincinnati-could-be-10-million-less-than-projected/

The link you posted above has a time line. Did you read it? It was initially thought the payout was $30M but it ended being closer to $20M. This article says it will be paid out over 4-5 years. Other articles have suggested 3-5 years. Let's split the difference and say 4 years, which is $5M a year. That amount alone is greater than the NBE TV contract. Here's a couple of other links, but the one you provided works just fine.

http://articles.courant.com/2013-03...ools-pittsburgh-and-syracuse-football-schools

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...bury-american-athletic-conference-mike-aresco

Nelson Said: That is $20MM, of which it is safe to assume we have already earned $4MM, and maybe we are closer to $8MM. Do we hang on to the bitter end of those exit fees, or do we start working the networks for a better deal before that revenue stream runs out?

The better deal will come through either joining a P5 conference or building our football brand by winning and being on national television week in and week out. Putting all the indy challenges aside, if you told me when would make more by going indy today, I would be up for it. But that's not the case. If it was, we would be in a P5 conference. But that doesn't mean it can't happen in the near future.

Nelson Said: The playoff money for the G5 conferences does not cut out Army, Navy and BYU. I am sure they get their fair share, so going indy should be neutral on that basis.

Notre Dame will receive slightly less than 1 percent of the annual revenue (about $3.5 million). The remaining FBS independents will split 0.5 percent. So .5 percent split 5 ways equals 0.1% or based upon estimates, about $350K. AAC teams will receive a little more than $1.8M with 11 teams in the league. Slightly less if the conference goes to 12 or slightly more if the playoffs generate greater revenue.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...f-revenue-money-distribution-payouts/1762709/


Nelson, enjoy UConn. Worry less about NBE.

*The C7 retained NCAA units which are reported to be valued around $720k per team this year. Next year the figure drops down to $560K per team, and so on. This is in addition to the $150K per team the NBE east earned for this year's performance. The AAC appears to have retained retained the units for all non C7 schools, i.e., Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, and Pittsburgh - as well as units earned by UConn, Cincy, and South Florida (After not paying an exit fee Notre Dame took their lousy 5 units along with a small portion of the reserve fund). The payout this year for trailing 5 years appears to total $19M or $1.9M per school. In addition to that amount, this year the AAC has earned $2.25M and counting, which translates to $13.5M over 6 years.

 

[Stray_Dog]

The main issue I am stubborn on is pointing out the stupidity of the current strategy. I am hell bent on getting more money for the athletic program because the path we are on is guaranteed to result in all three major programs being flushed down the toilet. There are three things any strategy has to address:

Money: If you have a plan that will get more money for the athletic program, I am all ears. If there is a way for the departing schools to pay their exit fees again if we stay in the AAC, then this conference is viable for us. If we can somehow trick the NCAA into paying the tournament credits for Syracuse, Pitt, Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, Louisville and the rest of the departing schools to the AAC, then this conference is viable for us. If the AAC has a secret money machine that spits out $20's all day to AAC members, then this conference is viable for us. $2MM a year from the network TV contract is not viable.

Schedule: The schedule is not viable. We are in a southern mid-major conference and the attendance at UConn home games reflects that. We need more local teams and better teams on the schedule. If the AAC programs get better, then that helps a lot. I don't know how that happens on $2MM a year from the TV contract.

Network Partners: ESPN is not an ally. This network has screwed us every step of the way. Hoping for a different result in the future is the very definition of both stupidity and insanity.

BE/Independence option addresses all those points. If you have another solution that addresses these three issues, then I will be the first to jump on the bandwagon with you. If you are going to continue to attack the NBE because you don't like the basketball schools, then I will continue to point out how wrong you and the rest of them are.

I think you need to take a chill pill, calm down, really it will be okay.
About MONEY: UConn has how many people in their administration looking at their financial situation??? I am sure they have people constantly monitoring this situation. When choices arise, they look at what the projections are. Right now our choices are limited but do NOT require a rash impulsive (and quite frankly immature) action as you would suggest we take. We are currently with the AAC getting more money each year for the next two years more than we would get in the Big East. Do you really think, we UConn basketball is doomed to fail that quickly??? If you do I question your loyalty as a fan to UConn.
About SCHEDULE: So we know the basketball and football teams in this conference are not elite, we argue that of the mid majors, they are the best in Football we can currently be a part of. In basketball I would argue that between the NBE and the AAC future potential is the same. What has Georgetown, ST. Johns, Villanova, SHU, Providence and the rest of the NBE done? You would want us to knee jerk ourselves into a conference with ZERO growth? Guess what with all the arguments you have made, it sounds like we could ask them for an invite in 2,3,5,10, or 12 years time and get that invite. Why rush out and beg for what is likley always going to be there but by taking it is admitting not only defeat, but a failure we would never live down. Imagine Syracuse, BC, Louisville, WVU, Pitt, Miami (The U), VT, & Rutgers - reading that headline. It would say the same thing from each of them. They through the towel in, to think they thought they deserved a shot at the P5 - our conference presidents knew what they were doing when they didn't invest in UConn. UConn was not going to invest in themselves, they just wanted an easy payday! Well show them we are willing to do the work.
As for Network Partners: Like we have a lot of control over this. And no one on here that I have read who is a UConn fan supports ESPN, but I guarantee you that even though we all despise them whether a lot or a little will certainly put their TV to that channel to watch their beloved Huskies play.

So please quit your whining, I got your point and retelling/rehashing it, isn't going to change mine - in fact at this point you have only cemented your opposition. You will not draw any allies to your side going forward, and it is because most of us now find your diatribe annoying!

 

[BlueHen]

Shaka Smart turns down offer from Marquette.

 

[Hoophound]

I'm not surprised but he needs to be careful or people will stop asking. He was probably offered 2.5X what he makes now.