"Other" games of note, Week 2 (Nov. 12-18)

[Plebe]

I barely recognize Haley Jones without the Milli Vanilli hair.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The Hull twins are great players

Their HS team was dominant for at least 3 years at the highest classification in Washington. I don't think they got nearly enough credit/publicity.

 

[nwhoopfan]

76-70 final

 

[Lorcan]

So, officiating aside, I think that Gonzaga is probably better than advertised given their losses from last year, but we'll have to keep an eye on what they're doing this season...

Now....to go rank this mess. This shall be fun!

 

[DefenseBB]

It's simple: Missy's singular goal is to ensure Stanford loses or strains to win in the world's most painful fashion. It's remarkable how good she is at finding fouls where none exist and just happening to be the ref in games where we are uncharacteristically flat on offense and get taken to the mat by a less talented team that plays zone. This has happened probably half a dozen times in the past 3-4 seasons. When I saw she was head ref, I had a terrible feeling we would either lose or barely pull out a win...

OMG please just stop! It’s beneath you to carp on something so ludicrous. Be grateful you won especially considering how poor you shot free throws. Jeez.

 

[DefenseBB]

What is so ludicrous? There were 51 fouls called and 58 free throws taken. That's approximately one foul per 1.2 minutes. Compare that to the A&M Rice game, which was also close and down to the wire, where there were 26 fouls called and 27 free throw attempts. Neither Stanford nor Gonzaga is a terribly physical team, and yet both had players foul out.

I've watched PAC-12 WCBB for years, and Missy is terrible, not just for Stanford, but for everyone. Tell me how you think the Stanford - Team USA game would have gone if the refs had called that game the way this one was called.

Your comments about Missy having an agenda against Stanford is what is ludicrous. We all get it, YOU don’t like her. However the game I just saw was foul prone and sloppy so maybe both teams overplayed and you know, actually committed fouls.

 

[Plebe]

Well, apologies for hallucinating. But pretty much every game I watch where she's the head ref, it's foul city and ugly play. I called it about 4 minutes into the game and it was consistent throughout. We had no issues with fouls the past three games, and from a quick glance at the Zags' box scores, neither did they. So absent some alternative hypothesis, I'll go with what basically every Stanford fan has concluded about Barlow: that she calls ridiculous, ticky tacky fouls, and it makes games descend into unwatchably poor play.

Would be fun to see a statistical analysis of Barlow's games to see if they exceed average fouls per game.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Interesting, I've long thought the quality of reffing in the Pac 12 wasn't very good, but I hadn't zeroed in on Barlow being so bad. I'll have to pay more attention to games she's reffing that I watch.

 

[Plebe]

Haha, funny you say that - we've tried in the past to find this data, but for some reason the PAC-12 doesn't give out info on who refs which games. I'm not surprised, because I'd wager more than the $100 I would contribute to her early retirement fund that her ref teams call fouls at the highest rate of any in the PAC-12, if not the country. I can't tell you how many times she's ruined games Stanford has played in through mercilessly arbitrary and abusive calls. I'd say I see one technical foul per 10 games in ordinary OOC, low-stakes games where it doesn't involve coaches or players leaving the bench, and we had at least two or three tonight alone!

I know I sound over-the-top, and there's of course some dramatic embellishment, but it's such a trope on our Stanford board that it basically goes without saying that Missy = crappy game.

The refs' names are listed in every boxscore. It'd be a tedious project, but one could certainly compile this data and run the reports.

 

[LoTrader]

Missy Barlow is also my least favorite PAC-12 referee. She has called more technicals on Scott Rueck than any other official. Must be the worst job in the world, being a basketball ref. Someone is always pissed at you.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I did a quick calculation for all PAC-12 games last season in which Stanford played, and non-Missy ref'd games averaged 31.1 fouls per game, while Missy-ref'd games averaged 38.3 fouls per game, so games with Missy at the helm had, on average, 25% more fouls. At least I'm not hallucinating...

 

[nwhoopfan]

I did a quick calculation for all PAC-12 games last season in which Stanford played, and non-Missy ref'd games averaged 31.1 fouls per game, while Missy-ref'd games averaged 38.3 fouls per game, so games with Missy at the helm had, on average, 25% more fouls. At least I'm not hallucinating...

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

[donalddoowop]

If they don't surely Aston's seat will be getting warm. 1-2 start for them, Big 12 schedule can't get her soon enough.

At least Collier is starting to play outstanding ball offensively, even hitting three pointers. She may be fully frustrated by end of the season. When your two big players has to shoot from outside as much as Holmes and Collier did, the guard play must be lacking. Sutton dribbles too much and seems to try to show people how good her handle is. I don't remember her doing that when she played high school ball here in St. Louis.

 

[tazmaz]

VPI has the best in-house announcers of any school I've come across. Mack McCarthy is an retired Men's coach at UTC, VCU, and ECU.

L’ville has the two worst in-house announcers.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I agree that PAC-12 refereeing is slightly below the quality of other conferences (I attribute this in part to the distances between schools making it a much less attractive job than most other conferences). But the Missy squad is always an outlier. She's the only ref I know by name because of how infamous she has become over the years.

It is not "worse" than other conferences. Just different. Each conference has slightly different styles in refereeing, but the thing about the PAC is that only a few of the refs work the other Power 5 conferences, and mostly its the Big 12 if any.

Price and Bird are multiple power-conference refs, as is Gulbeyan - but the PAC is his outlier, whereas Bird and Price are mostly PAC 12 for the Power Conferences. Another one that has at times worked the PAC but really is the other 4 is Cameron Inoyue; I tracked a lot of refs for a number of years, and she is also one of the "works the most" - usually 6 days a week.

Distances between schools (in one conference) have nothing to do with it, one of the top refs in the east (who work between 4 and 6 games a week routinely (so do a lot of the PAC refs) might fly from Massachusetts to Alabama to Michigan to Texas day by day. It is unreal.

In any case, the PAC refs work the Mountain West, West Coast, Big West and a variety of other conferences. But their style is different from those that work the eastern conferences. My usual summary is that they let scrums go, and also a lot of under the basket stuff other than ticky-tack touch fouls, which they call consistently.

Like you, I don't like Barlow, although I don't think she is incompetent, she just calls everything. I prefer the old-timers, who are Gonzalez, Price, Schofield (who lives in Tucson) and a couple others. Although my wife did get a high 5 from Infin'i Robinson last year. And Price picked up a piece of pompom (to get rid of) that was on the floor and handed it to my wife, with the comment that she should go easy on him since he gave her something. So they are human.

 

[bennyskid]

You can't prove malice from mere statistics.

Every ref has their tendencies. If it just so happens that those tendencies intersect with your team's tendencies, then it will look to you as though they are biased against your team. For example, some refs are really tight on calling moving screens, so if your team runs a lot of screens you are going to get a lot of calls against you. It doesn't mean the ref doesn't like your team, and it doesn't even mean that she's a bad ref. In fact, she might be *perfect* on those calls.

Stanford has a particular defensive style. (OSU is pretty similar, and I note that at least one Beaver fan also cast some aspersion on Missy). You don't have to assume that Missy hates Stanford (or Scott Rueck) just because that style of play intersects with her particular focus.

 

[triaddukefan]

I didnt know that Troy was playing Miss State tonight.... I should be watching and scouting.... they (Troy) invade Cameron Indoor on Sunday.

 

[SECbbfan24]

I didnt know that Troy was playing Miss State tonight.... I should be watching and scouting.... they (Troy) invade Cameron Indoor on Sunday.

Neither team playing defense

Duke should score 100

 

[Plebe]

Neither team playing defense

Duke should score 100

I mean, Tennessee last year beat Troy 131-69. I think the Troy coach's philosophy is to hope the other team gets tired scoring so many uncontested layups.

 

[garddog]

I mean, Tennessee last year beat Troy 131-69. I think the Troy coach's philosophy is to hope the other team gets tired scoring so many uncontested layups.

Vic is looking like explosive time is here. Too many defensive breakdowns. All the freshmen and sophmores, I just hope they develop quickly on defense.

 

[SECbbfan24]

I am not exactly completely sold on R. Jackson starting right now. Out of position defensively a lot, poor shot selection, turnovers.

She will be good but has ways to go

 

[garddog]

I am not exactly completely sold on R. Jackson starting right now. Out of position defensively a lot, poor shot selection, turnovers.

She will be good but has ways to go

If he can get her to do it, she would make a better stretch 4 than a 3. After the center's and sidney cook's she is the tallest girl on the team

 

[donalddoowop]

I didnt know that Troy was playing Miss State tonight.... I should be watching and scouting.... they (Troy) invade Cameron Indoor on Sunday.

Triad, what happened to Odom? I watched her play in her high school state championship game and she and her running buddy lit up the place. She looked as if she would be AA material in college and seemed to play well as a freshman. It looks like she does not always hustle. What happened to her buddy after transferring from her original college choice?

 

[MSUFan2003]

I am not exactly completely sold on R. Jackson starting right now. Out of position defensively a lot, poor shot selection, turnovers.

She will be good but has ways to go

I have been thinking the same thing. I think AEH should start over Rickea.

 

[SimpleDawg]

Myah Taylor has outplayed Rickea Jackson first 4 games + exhibition. Who saw that coming?

 

[Jmsdawg]

I didnt know that Troy was playing Miss State tonight.... I should be watching and scouting.... they (Troy) invade Cameron Indoor on Sunday.

I watched that game and Troy is no pushover. They are quick and have some bombers. MSST was really on tonight so do not let the score for that game lead you to think Troy is an easy win.

 

[MSUFan2003]

Myah Taylor has outplayed Rickea Jackson first 4 games + exhibition. Who saw that coming?

Myah is a talented player who has always given max effort. I'm concerned about the defense, which was out rebounded by Troy. That's just laziness and lack of "want to" on our part. Vic has his work cut out for him with this young team, but we knew that going into the season.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Myah is a talented player who has always given max effort. I'm concerned about the defense, which was out rebounded by Troy. That's just laziness and lack of "want to" on our part. Vic has his work cut out for him with this young team, but we knew that going into the season.

I was impressed with our Troy game. Still want to see how we do on the road against a quality opponent. I think we will do well, we have got a lot of really talented players and they are starting to develop team chemistry. BRING IT ON!

 

[ochoopsfan]

USC Trojans just lost to UCSB Gauchos, at Santa Barbara 57-46.
Yes I know some USC players were out, I dont care, the others look like players who belong on an average Big West team, not a Pac 12 team.

 

[garddog]

I thought UCSB used to be a really good mid major? Is that not so anymore?