OT: Windows Surface/Windows 8

[Fishy]

Has anyone else used one of these suckers?

We've had a pair of them in the office this week and my instinct after using it for about two days is that I should hit it with a rock until its lights go out.

It's not all bad - screen is nice, it's well-made, the typey-key cover is nifty if tiring to use, etc.

But, good lord, Windows 8 is a muddle from Hell. The Metro 'tablet' part is absolutely useless - there are next to no apps for it and the app store, such as it is, is an unmitigated disaster.

And when you find an app, you run into stuff like this....you have DropBox. You go to the metro Dropbox app and open a document. It opens in Word, for example. You do what you want and you go to save it back to Dropbox....but you can't.

Word is a 'desktop' app and therefore plays in a different playground than the Dropbox app. So you need to install the desktop version of Dropbox otherwise you're dead in the water. There are enough oddities in the Metro apps, (forget syncing GMail via the metro mail app...doesn't work), that you wonder why they bothered with them at all.

In the end, it's an inconvenient laptop and a non-starter as a tablet. What am I missing?

 

[Northbound]

They sent me one right before launch, so its been what 6 months that ive had it and here is what I use it for:

-playing chess against the computer
-looking at eBay
-reading the local paper
-viewing the boneyard
-playing that logos game

So pretty much what I use the iPad for, but that detatchable keyboard is pretty cool even though I never use it.

 

[HuskyBlue08]

I've been considering getting a Surface for work because of the keyboard and Microsoft Excel. It seems like a more functional work tablet than an IPad unless I'm missing something.

 

[RS9999X]

Windows 8 is still in Public Beta IMHO,

This is early adopter stuff and priced that way. I like it in general and am intrigued by the prospects once there's enough software. I'd load Visual Studio on a Surface Pro V II but that doesn't make sense yet. I have Win 8 as a dual boot configuration on my laptop.

When Windows Blue is released (it will be on back-to-school computers via OEM) and available to Retail in Sept (tentatively) we'll see what should have been the Beta 3. Largely complete. This thing we have now is a Beta 2 at best. They got away with it. Barely. This will be a 3 year roll out before the hardware, software and pricing fall in line.

Why they chose Windows Blue as the name for Service Pack 1 given the internet pundits a chance to resurrect the Blue Screen of Death? Further proof they are clueless.

My favorite Windows 8 release this month. The Dell 18 inch tablet .
5 hours battery life available up to 16GB RAM, i7 and 512GB SSD

using kickstand feet(can lie flat)

\\

or with stand

Software to make it worth purchasing? XBOX 720 will be released this fall with full multi-screen support for phones, tablets and other "surfaces". I've seen some Call Center/Emergency Response stuff that's incredible in its use of modern (post-mouse, post-PC) workflow.

 

[B1GEast]

The only thing that's keep microsoft afloat is the 60 billion in cash the company has, when HP decided to use the android software for their new tablets, MS lost another ally. IMO MS is a company at the end of it's life cycle.

 

[zls44]

I couldn't stand the thing.

The keyboard drove me nuts. Hated that the keys didn't actually depress. Windows 8 tries to do a lot of things well and doesn't really do any of them well as a result.

 

[Fishy]

I've been considering getting a Surface for work because of the keyboard and Microsoft Excel. It seems like a more functional work tablet than an IPad unless I'm missing something.

It's a tough question.

The iPad is a tablet and this is really a computer.

It's very heavy, you don't want to be holding it for very long, and there are very few tablet apps available. The dual nature of metro and desktop is a mess. (The 'pubic BETA' theory is less plausible than the theory that Microsoft has simply taken a bad idea and poorly executed it - the consumer preview for W8 came out a year ago. It's not a BETA, it's a problem.)

If you want a tablet, buy something else. If you want a computer, well, you should probably buy something else there, too.

Unfortunately, the ultimate takeaway is that the Pro is basically an ultrabook with a tiny screen and a lousy keyboard. You can spend less and get much more.

 

[kyle]

The only thing that's keep microsoft afloat is the 60 billion in cash the company has, when HP decided to use the android software for their new tablets, MS lost another ally. IMO MS is a company at the end of it's life cycle.

The world literally runs on Microsoft.

 

[B1GEast]

The world literally runs on Microsoft.

for now at least.

 

[RS9999X]

The only thing that's keep microsoft afloat is the 60 billion in cash the company has, when HP decided to use the android software for their new tablets, MS lost another ally. IMO MS is a company at the end of it's life cycle.

The days of Parent Panic where every house had to have a PC for the kids is over.

I agree they will never hold the same dominant spot in consumer electronics again. Corporate and schools are another story. Having said that, after Xbox 720 is released and the 7" tablets based on the lower price points for OEM software are released their device sales will soar and pretty much capture the $400 and above market. Windows and Office combined are only $30 to OEMs marketing screens 10.8" and under --that's enough for some OEMS to stop squawking. That price change was announced last week. The $120 OEM cost is now reduced to be in line with Android

Apple tablets? 2/3 of their sales were the minis. The 10" is facing an identity crisis in part for reasons that Fishy brought up. A 7" is a fine media and web consumption device. A 10" is overkill for many. Kindle has a similar sales pattern. The 7" rules for media consumption for both Newbies and repeat buyers. Windows will be in that market by the Holiday Season.

I think MS bought themselves another 10 years in the Enterprise market with Windows 8, Skype, and with Device integration. By this time next year most shops will integrate MS only devices squeezing out Crackberry and halting Android in its tracks. Large shops are risk adverse. They will stick with MS and gradually roll out stuff like VOIP(Skype), MS Yammer (Corporate Social Network). Azure for SkyDrive Services and App Deployment, etc. Internal Corporate IT is what will get killed as Software as a Service becomes the norm and India or China runs the backbone services.

Windows 8 can be scripted to boot straight into Desktop mode which some corporations do that to use Windows 8 in Windows 7 mode for the time being.

Shops that never build any Apple Apps will deploy MS Apps on 7" to 10" Windows Tablets via a Corporate App Store.

Skype and Communication Server are on track to integrate well with Exchange as the center of the new PBX-free VOIP systems. SkyDrive and Corporate Clouds are nothing more than file servers repackaged with sync technology and located to a third party. Etc.

Far from dead. They've got a tortoise and hare thing going on as the 6" phone becomes the computer. Use a 10" monitor or 27". The phone is the computer. 6" Intel Atom phones coming soon to the states. Lenovo's 5.5" K900 is just the beginning. 2014 will see another shrink to the phoneputer. Small enough for Fishy to knuckle ball against the wall

 

[Fishy]

Microsoft does have some serious issues in front of them, but it bears mention that it is still an extremely profitable company. I'm not going to look it up, but I'm certain they're more profitable than Google even. But they do have a serious issue in the long term - the kinds of devices that we're migrating to is a path away from where MS makes their cash.

I own a business and have somewhere around 20 computers, a dozen tablets and I don't know how many smartphones there. The computers are all PCs running Windows 7 and all of them have Office installed via Office365.

But people aren't using them as much anymore - some people use Google Docs, some like Pages, etc. They're using things that don't require a Windows PC and they're opting for something less complex than Office. I can see the benefit in buying cheap Chromebooks or Chromeboxes (if there is such a thing) down the road - and I know I'm cutting way, way back on Office licenses.

A friend of mine has a very interesting business that has about 250 mostly part-time employees - they're entirely Google'd. Chromebooks, Android phones and Google Docs. It works for them.

Things are heading small, simpler and more mobile - Microsoft has blown that entirely thus far.

Windows Phone has failed outright and the tablet competitor, RT, is stillborn. (Even the Surface Pro has failed - we didn't pay anything near retail for ours. Our office supply guy called me with a promotion - essentially, $500 and an old laptop changed hands there.) I fail to see how a 7" tablet will change that - people do not want their phones, they do not want the tablets...a 7" form factor is just another casualty in the market. They're dead in the water right now.

I don't think the new Xbox means anything either - they haven't made any money on it yet and consoles are going the way of the dodo. Apple will probably sell more iPads this year than the entire history of xbox sales.

 

[RS9999X]

I think you hit the areas where they are weakest -- small business that has few Power Users of MS Office. Enterprise paranoia will keep Corporate America off Android or Chrome; not to mention oodles of legacy apps. The cost savings of Google docs and Chromebooks is negligible when amortized over 5 years in their pricing model.

Windows Phone is hitting IDC projections. I give it another two years of 100% growth.

Sent from my Lumia 920 via Windows 8. Now bite me Apple Droids.

 

[Chuck]

Demo'd the Surface for a couple weeks. My conclusion is that the Surface 2 will be great.

I took the Surface on the road to a conference. Love the keyboard. I'm okay with Windows 8. My main issue is that it's fat and heavy (like me) for something supposedly so portable. The even bigger issue is the battery life. I used it on and off for light emails for an hour or so. Then it ran my power point presentation for 75 minutes and I was down to about 1/3rd battery. That's just not going to cut it.

We returned the units. The next Intel chip is supposed to slice power consumption.

 

[Fishy]

Battery life is not great and it is a fat sucker. I suspect the new Intel chips will help on both fronts. The thickness no doubt has to do with the need for two fans and vents to move air out of the case.

Another quick grip before I try to say something nice about it - I don't know what the case is made of, but it's not scratch-resistant.

It's not all bad, though -

The screen is very nice - it's not iPad Retina nice, but it's close enough. I threw a movie on it and the screen/16:9 made it quite nice to watch.

The keyboard (I have the Type Cover) is pretty impressive. They took Apple's smart cover idea and ran in an impressive direction with it. There are also a lot of pins along the bottom that lead me to believe that there may be some accessories coming. Keyboard with a battery? Dock?

It's very well made. They thought the design out for the most part. (Okay, they didn't think out the placement of the power port...the charging indicator light points down if you're using the Surface. Steve Jobs would have thrown it against a wall.)

I can't give them too much credit for the kickstand because there would have been no way to even use the thing without it - but it's handy. I've left it on an end table for most of this weekend with ESPN's app running the college hoop scoreboard. (While I find it very handy to have every score available at a glance, my wife is less impressed.)

You can split the screen into two windows. I rewrote something for a friend the other night and I had his draft on one side and worked in a text editor in the other - smart idea.

So, I dunno. There's a lot to like and perhaps more stuff not to like. (And some stuff to flat out hate.) If nothing else, Microsoft is definitely doing their own thing - it's probably too late to make a difference in phones, but maybe they carve something out here. Or, they just decide to keep making a bazillion dollars in the enterprise and they bail on the consumer side.

 

[RS9999X]

Or, they just decide to keep making a bazillion dollars in the enterprise and they bail on the consumer side.

This is the thing.

"To Ballmer" something is a verb in the English language.

I expect Ballmer gets bounced in March 2014. In some way unfairly. He's actually got some stuff that will work well for the consumer market but they need a consumer guru who knows they need the best content, the best apps, and the best media store including books. The best hardware alliances: Smart Glass in every TV. Purchase Barnes and Noble electronic and academic division as planned and nail it. Don't Ballmer it.

SkyDrive needs a web publishing component. Easy to make social websites to publish files and pictures and blog/comment entries with one click from their phone and other devices. Hand out space freely.

Games they will have. Xbox might be on its last generation but it will move product and get them into households and provide plenty of games. Lead the cable cutters into a better era.

Or they Ballmer it.