OT Way OT: Brown, MIT murders link?

[superjohn]

Nope, but if you could show his path of egress from the campus, that might lead you to other sources of information, ringing, doorbells, etc.

And before you scoff at that, I can tell you, with certainty, that the police do track people using private ring doorbell or other private security cameras.

He's on camera circling many times the building he would eventually shoot up. He's on camera running away from the homeless guy right by that same building he shot up. The homeless guy followed him to his car and they confronted each other. They played cat and mouse and his car was spotted circling the area 14 times, a faculty member also saw him slowly and suspiciously driving around the area.

A basic level of security in and around the campus should've prevented all the tragedy that would later unfold and it shouldn't have taken a homeless guy to solve the two cases.

 

[upstater]

Tom, I think the argument is that if there were cameras that caught the perpetrator at the brown shooting, he might've been captured in the two days between the original shooting and the MIT shooting.

I'm not a huge fan of a big brother state where we are all constantly being monitored, but I do think have there been cameras in the huge blind spot behind the building it might've saved the MIT professor's life.

Possibly. But the major break in the case was the MIT professor's shooting.

They put 2+2+2 together.

Physics building shootings + Physics professor at MIT shot + Portugal country of origin and the algorithm yielded for Brown Physics PhD = Portuguese Physics connection between the 2 men.

If he hadn't shot the MIT professor, there's a chance he'd still be on the loose even IF the picture had been clearer.

 

[temery]

So, again, given that a second murder was committed two days after the first murder, in this particular case, more cameras might have saved the MIT professor's life by catching the killer in the intervening two days before his second killing.

You keep arguing that it wouldn't have prevented the Brown murders, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you. I know I'm not.

No, I've been arguing cameras would have done nothing to prevent either of the shootings.

 

[upstater]

But if they were monitored real time as part of a campus wide security initiative then there would be one MIT professor alive

To say it was a conscious decision to appease a certain kind of protester, you don't think this is wild speculation?

It's the same kind of thinking that doxxed the poor kid who was hiding for his life because people everywhere were posting his picture as the killer. People bend their minds toward something they want to be true and then they run with it.

 

[CL82]

No, I've been arguing with have done to prevent either of the shootings.

Ah, well, then I disagree with half your point.

 

[temery]

They aren’t to blame for the shooting. Nobody I know of is saying they are. But what good are shot spotters and door locks for preventing other criminal activities that might take place like robberies or sexual assaults? Stste of the art surveillance systems can also possibly get good pics of a perp’s clothing and eye color. That can be very valuable in a criminal case when comparing high resolution photos from campus to the rental car place, mask wearing or no mask wearing. Do right by the students and do everything you can to protect them on private property.

Cameras are cheap and they should be everywhere. But more cameras would not have saved any lives at Brown University or the MIT professor. And cameras don't prevent anything unless there's somebody watching them real time, which is unrealistic.

 

[superjohn]

old white guy energy

What a bizarre take. Campus sexual assault/rape used to be taken extremely seriously on college campuses with all sorts of security measures taken to try and prevent the crimes from happening. I would assume that's still the case on campuses, at least I hope it is.

 

[CL82]

Possibly. But the major break in the case was the MIT professor's shooting.

They put 2+2+2 together.

Physics building shootings + Physics professor at MIT shot + Portugal country of origin and the algorithm yielded for Brown Physics PhD = Portuguese Physics connection between the 2 men.

If he hadn't shot the MIT professor, there's a chance he'd still be on the loose even IF the picture had been clearer.

On the other hand, if there had been away to track his egress route, he may have been caught without the second death happening.

 

[upstater]

Yes, law enforcement learned about the tip 3 days after the Brown shooting. The MIT professor was already murdered at that point. If cameras picked up the killer exiting/returning to his car the MIT professor would still be alive.

His car was nowhere near the Brown campus. They had Ring video of the guy walking down Waterman Street. How is Brown putting up cameras in residential neighborhoods? Wherever his car was, he had cleared the campus by far.

 

[CL82]

Cameras are cheap and they should be everywhere. But more cameras would not have saved any lives at Brown University or the MIT professor. And cameras don't prevent anything unless there's somebody watching them real time, which is unrealistic.

Or unless there's a two day time lapse between murders committed by the same individual. Because in those two days, it's likely that film would be reviewed.

 

[TheHorde]

Cameras are cheap and they should be everywhere. But more cameras would not have saved any lives at Brown University or the MIT professor. And cameras don't prevent anything unless there's somebody watching them real time, which is unrealistic.

They wouldn’t have prevented this incident. But not having them might embolden future incidents at that campus. I really really hope not. But if I had a child attending there I’d be furious with that university. I disagree about video and camera surveillance not preventing things. They can record on a loop and get clear images of a perpetrator. That wouldn’t require someone watching in real time necessarily. It might discourage incidents from taking place if someone knows there is a much higher chance of them getting caught. And since you agree they’re not costly there’s no reason not to have state of the art equipment deployed.

 

[upstater]

Yeah, I think there's some topic drift on this Tom. You asked the question what would more cameras have done? I think the answer is if they provided more information about the killer, including his appearance, how he left campus, where he went, what vehicle he got into etc. that would help law-enforcement. Is it enough to save the MIT pro professor's life? I don't know, but more information is better than less information.

I completely agree that the blame for the murders falls squarely on the murderers shoulders, but we would be foolish society if we didn't take take a look at all the surrounding factors to see if there are things we can do better. That's true for this murder, it's true for every murder. We won't necessarily find things at every murder, but we should always look.

But again, Brown isn't putting up cameras near the neighborhood where the guy parked.

 

[superjohn]

His car was nowhere near the Brown campus. They had Ring video of the guy walking down Waterman Street. How is Brown putting up cameras in residential neighborhoods? Wherever his car was, he had cleared the campus by far.

Where was his car if it was nowhere near campus? You're expecting me to believe the homeless guy followed him to another part of the city or outside the city?

 

[Tenspro2002]

I don't undertand your last paragraph. He was a former Brown student who took almost all his classes in that building. He also clearly knew the MIT professor.

Yes, at this point the connection is clear. Or, at least, the killer's connection both to Brown and to the MIT professor.

But a lot of people were speculating that the killings were related before we knew anything about the killer. That was basically a lucky guess.

 

[Tenspro2002]

The timeline tells us something.

He was a student in the same engineering program with the MIT professor in Portugal. The killer lost his funding and was removed from his position, while the MIT professor was advanced. No details about whether they knew each other, but they were in that program at the exact same time.

A year or 2 later, the killer enters Brown universities PhD program, but there are no details of him ever finishing it.

Yes, could easily be a jealous/resentment/"revenge" (against those perceived as causing his failures) component.

 

[NJHusky]

But again…. Those cameras would have not been Brown cameras because he wasn’t parked on campus. So this has zero to do with the number of cameras on Brown’s campus or at that building.

If there was a camera in the building they would have gotten a better view of the shooter. The ONLY reason they found him was because of the homeless giy. Otherwise they are still looking

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Where was his car if it was nowhere near campus? You're expecting me to believe the homeless guy followed him to another part of the city or outside the city?

The homeless guy encountered him before the shooting. The car wasn’t miles away but Brown cameras would have never identified the car where it was parked.

 

[upstater]

Nope, but if you could show his path of egress from the campus, that might lead you to other sources of information, Ring doorbells, etc.

And before you scoff at that, I can tell you, with certainty, that the police do track people using private ring doorbell or other private security cameras.

But they did have that grainy image of him on the first day. They also had neighborhood walkbys and photos. But they didn't have the car.

 

[upstater]

Where was his car if it was nowhere near campus? You're expecting me to believe the homeless guy followed him to another part of the city or outside the city?

5 blocks away from the building in a residential neighborhood.

We're talking about Brown putting up cameras.

The police had plenty of video of him walking down Waterman away from the building. But they didn't track where he went after, short of some Ring cameras here and there.

His car was on a corner 4 or 5 blocks away.

Talk to the homeless guy about his detective work.

 

[temery]

They wouldn’t have prevented this incident. But not having them might embolden future incidents at that campus. I really really hope not. But if I had a child attending there I’d be furious with that university. I disagree about video and camera surveillance not preventing things. They can record on a loop and get clear images of a perpetrator. That wouldn’t require someone watching in real time necessarily. It might discourage incidents from taking place if someone knows there is a much higher chance of them getting caught. And since you agree they’re not costly there’s no reason not to have state of the art equipment deployed.

The majority of public school shootings have state of the art cameras, and resource officers on duty. There is no catch all answer.

 

[Scrutineer]

Not sure if this is a joke but it is not true. The area where the shooting took place was literally right on the edge of campus and the building where it happened is quite old and was not retrofitted with more cameras like the newer buildings. The campus as a whole has 1,200 cameras. This guy just happened to be in an area where there weren’t many.

Did you attend Brown? Do you work there? Are you in the security business? Have you wired your home for cameras?
Otherwise how do you know the logistics of wiring this particular building? Did he really "just happen" to enter via the area with few cameras?

Plus, why bother with cameras anywhere else in the building if you're going to leave a major portion of the building lacking in cameras and security equipment? There were reports that doors weren't locked but who knows for sure.

He was a student there many years ago and may thus have had knowledge of the security system's weak points as they existed when he was there and got lucky when he went to the building last weekend.

The reports I watched showed local news reporters aggressively grilling the University President about the lack of cameras and others questioned why there are no ID card readers required for entry to the building and various spaces within it.

Remember how easily UConn Security staff found it was Bouknight that hit a sign with someone else's Audi and took off on foot? They followed him on the security cameras right up to the door of his dorm and knew exactly what time he swiped his card for entry. UConn must have had to retrofit older buildings to get it right, including the access devices.

There are other questions about Brown's security. For example, one report I heard said their Chief of Security was let go by a university in Utah due to discovery of shortcomings or other issues in his background within a few days of his hiring and guess what? Brown hired him as their Chief shortly thereafter. No background check? Or symptomatic of a larger problem?

 

[Scrutineer]

Where did you get that from? School officials have said they didn't even know he was.

I saw reports indicating he was enrolled in an engineering program and classes and labs would have been in that building.

 

[CL82]

But again, Brown isn't putting up cameras near the neighborhood where the guy parked.

But again, having better information about how he left the crime scene allows investigators to be more efficient in tracking him down. I feel as if we're talking past each other, because that isn't a particularly controversial statement.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Have you wired your home for cameras?
Otherwise how do you know the logistics of wiring this particular building?

Yes, I have 6 hard wired POE security cameras that hook up to a centralized video monitoring system/hard drive., which I personally installed and set up. This was all retrofitted on a near 100 year old home. It’s a MASSIVE PITA.

 

[superjohn]

Did you attend Brown? Do you work there? Are you in the security business? Have you wired your home for cameras?
Otherwise how do you know the logistics of wiring this particular building? Did he really "just happen" to enter via the area with few cameras?

Plus, why bother with cameras anywhere else in the building if you're going to leave a major portion of the building lacking in cameras and security equipment? There were reports that doors weren't locked but who knows for sure.

He was a student there many years ago and may thus have had knowledge of the security system's weak points as they existed when he was there and got lucky when he went to the building last weekend.

The reports I watched showed local news reporters aggressively grilling the University President about the lack of cameras and others questioned why there are no ID card readers required for entry to the building and various spaces within it.

Remember how easily UConn Security staff found it was Bouknight that hit a sign with someone else's Audi and took off on foot? They followed him on the security cameras right up to the door of his dorm and knew exactly what time he swiped his card for entry. UConn must have had to retrofit older buildings to get it right, including the access devices.

There are other questions about Brown's security. For example, one report I heard said their Chief of Security was let go by a university in Utah due to discovery of shortcomings or other issues in his background within a few days of his hiring and guess what? Brown hired him as their Chief shortly thereafter. No background check? Or symptomatic of a larger problem?

Brown's president said the doors to the building were unlocked.