OT: UConn's academic budget

[UconnFanNVa]

I don't think any reasonable person disputes either of these conclusions.
The point I was making is only that the notion that you need 4 years of college as a basis for many careers is plainly false. Two people apply for the job at Enterprise rent a car. The person with the 4 year BA degree in whatever gets the job over the person with a HS degree and no college. Certainly nobody would argue that even 1 year of college is required to work the front desk or phones at Enterprise. But history and momentum and culture and marketing have all conspired to create a society where the value of a college degree and the perceived value of going to college, at least economically, are substantially divergent.
The value in college for a huge chunk of attendees now appears to be a status symbol.

Regarding coding and computer science, I really have no idea what the value added of a 4 year degree is, but it clearly is one of the best in the country, with average starting salaries coming in at around 65-70 grand and very high placement rate.

That written, the higher end coding boot camps that run 3 months, 11 hours a day, 6 days a week boast a higher placement rate and higher starting salary than the national average for CS graduates.

So what's my point? My point is that a 4 year holistic degree that imparts broad knowledge of computer science principles, fundamentals, theories, and application is a wonderful thing. But what the numbers suggest is that the ability to sit in the seat and crank out the work is what matters when it determines what you get paid.

Traditionally, the combination of the 4 year degree, the grades, and the pedigree of the institution implied a certain ability to crank out the work. That model works well. The Cornell EE student who graduated top 10% in her class is almost a slam dunk to be a valuable worker. The community college kid who took 6 years to get a degree and averaged Cs? Not so much.

Today's world calls for a new model. I went to college/grad school for 7 years to become a lawyer. Frankly, that concept is asinine, particularly when you consider that most attorneys practice in fairly narrow avenues of law. It's more asinine when you consider that you have to pass a 2 day power test to get licensed. What's the point of the degree if it's not sufficient to prove your ability to be a lawyer? Why is there a test also?

How about this as a going forward proposal - anybody age 18 or older who can pass the bar exam can practice law. If your response is, "there'll be a lot of crappy lawyers out there," my reply would be - "you'd be shocked at how many crappy lawyers are currently out there."

Education in America is a racket. Places like Hack Reactor are starting to chip away at the foundation of the racket, which is the misguided belief that 4 years of college is the proper amount of post-high school education for, coincidentally, about 5,000 different career paths.

I tend to agree with this line of thinking. I'm an ETL developer. I got a degree in Marketing from WCSU. Afterwards I got an internship as a data analyst. That was followed up with real data analyst position with another company. They knew i didnt have the skills but told me come in, learn, there is a steep learning curve for you, but we think you have the right mind for this type of work. A year later, they had layoffs and i was the only 1 to survive because my work was better than the rest. 1 year later i was offered another job, and when i went to leave my boss said stay and we'll make you an ETL developer. He told me the kind of money that they made and that it would be a huge step forward for me, i stayed. Fast forward many years forward and i've moved higher and higher in that same field..... I had next to 0 training for this stuff in college.

Yes there is something good to say about someone that can stick it out and get a degree, but very little learned there translates directly into the field imo. I've worked with people who have gone to school for what i do and they dont do anything any better than me (often times they are worse). Moreover if you look in the IT field, its filed with people who got degrees in fields they ended up not working in, history, english and music majors.... I think the whole thing is a con.

 

[jazyj]

I know others have chimed in, but I work in the industry and wanted to add my own two cents. It really depends on the person. Having the degree rarely hurts. But it won't get you hired by a good development house. There are plenty of bad programmers with degrees and vice versa. One of the best coders at my old job had a degree in Biomedical Engineering. He just decided to change careers and knew his stuff. Most good programmers will do a technical interview so they can weed out the dummies.

The degree never hurts you -- it can get your foot in the door -- but really good development houses know how to find great programmers no matter what the background. However, becoming a great programmer is about a lot more than taking online Java tutorials, too, and takes a lot of rigorous effort.

Good luck to you.

Thanks I appreciate the feedback i've been getting different answers from everybody I asked in person

 

[jleves]

I don't know if this will help you any but here goes. I have degree in Psychology with an emphasis on schizophrenia. My goal through college was to be a Psychologist. One year after I graduated I took a job in IT and have been doing that for over 25 years. I don't know how closely you follow posts and responses, but I think the boneyard would agree that I am pretty solid when it comes to technology. My area of expertise is not programming. I mostly do infrastructure, hardware and data center. I do have a team of 10 people under me at this point and I can tell you when it comes to hiring, I don't give a rats ass about certifications or education. People do have to have a degree (not necessarily CS) to work in IT positions in my company, but we are government, so that may not be the case in other organizations.

I guess the point is you have to pass an interview to work for me and I don't care if you know the stuff you will be working on, you need to know how to think, learn and have a serious dedication/love for IT and show that you will work your ass off to figure out how to do your job.

A degree can't hurt (in my case, required) but I only hire people who are obviously interested in technology and I know will work their ass off to be a great technician. You have that and you have a job.

 

[CTMike]

Another resident IT guy here. Great thing about it is there are so many paths you can take. I started off computer engineering, then management information systems... Interned at a dot com, did mainframe programming at a local insurance company, moved to IT audit, and now in IT security. It may seem disjointed, but it all built on each other... And being able to think logically/having a programming background has helped in many ways even if I don't do programming in my day to day. The degree was the foot in the door though.

 

[Sportsman5]

I don't think it is reasonable in the sense that UConn is the only top tier public institution in the state. This may be why U. Michigan gets away with it. You want everyone who has the credentials to have the chance at that institution. Typically, you can argue that a student that takes a yearly $5k gov't subsidized loan, then works 30 hours at $10 an hour per week for 12 weeks in summer, and 15 hours a week at the same rate during the school year (while campus is in session, which is 30 weeks), can afford college. That student makes income of $8,000 a year, and also takes out a $5k loan. That covers tuition.

When you climb above $13k tuition, you can't make that argument any more.

If money is an issue, then a student can go to a regional campus or community college for 1-2 years to save money on tuition, housing, or both. That would help solve the problem until tuition reached very high levels. I agree that keeping tuition under 20k is important. However, if housing and tuition are 60k for two years + community college and living at home is roughly 20k for 2 years, then that is 80k of debt for a UConn storrs diploma assuming not working, scholarships, or help from parents.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Meanwhile, the umess system mess

 

[UConn9604]

Did you read the article?

Not a costs issue.

I disagree - costs play a huge role. The biggest problem is that UConn is a political entity. For instance, Susan Herbst commissioned a study that recommended a reorganization which would save UConn $39-67 million and raise non-tuition revenues by another $30 million.

The only problem? The no-layoffs deal that Gov. Malloy made with state unions killed about 30% of the plan.

http://www.raisinghale.com/2013/08/13/malloys-no-layoff-agreement-savings-uconn/

The process by which we appoint trustees and choose a President is political enough. Legislative or executive nit-picking on operational decisions is usually unhelpful.

 

[upstater]

I disagree - costs play a huge role. The biggest problem is that UConn is a political entity. For instance, Susan Herbst commissioned a study that recommended a reorganization which would save UConn $39-67 million and raise non-tuition revenues by another $30 million.

The only problem? The no-layoffs deal that Gov. Malloy made with state unions killed about 30% of the plan.

http://www.raisinghale.com/2013/08/13/malloys-no-layoff-agreement-savings-uconn/

The process by which we appoint trustees and choose a President is political enough. Legislative or executive nit-picking on operational decisions is usually unhelpful.

Not sure what there is to disagree with. Article is clear that there is a huge budget cut. There is nothing there about expenditures outpacing inflation. Plus the post I responded to was talking about national trends. Nationally the story has been budget and research cuts since 2008.

 

[shizzle787]

I think there is a way (controversial) to stymie the rising student debt problem. Here goes: Israel has a program where every man or woman who graduates high school either has to join the military or do community service (more for girls or those with physical and mental disabilities) for two years. I would advocate the same thing here in the US, but with a catch. The military currently does this, but it is not mandatory. It should be. Here's why: 1) young adults learn discipline, 2) 18 and 19 year old girls aren't getting pregnant because they're in the Coast Guard instead of college (initally) or in slums, 3) wealthy children do not get to have a sense of entitlement because their parents are wealthy, they have to earn it by sacrificing two years of their life for their country. By the way, poor kids are just as spoiled because the government gives them everything (the only kids that don't really have a sense of entitlement are those from middle class families). This system would reward US teens for their service by allowing them to attend the college of their choosing (that they are accepted to) for four years. Would this cost a lot? Sure, but other items in the federal budget (which we haven't had in a while) would be slashed (such as loopholes in taxes or welfare entitlement programs). NOTE: these military appointments would be non-combat: Army reserves, Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force, National Guard.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't know if this will help you any but here goes. I have degree in Psychology with an emphasis on schizophrenia. My goal through college was to be a Psychologist. One year after I graduated I to

No wonder you're a mod here.

 

[hjoerring]

I would like to add 3 things to this interesting discussion: An explosion in human knowledge took place when the universities went from being ultra elite institutions for the 1% to a significantly higher number. Think of how much more productive we are because of the basic knowledge being poured into our society from knowledge institutions. If you are service person at NcDonald after 4-years of college it is because job creation lags well behind the output of students. This is not an argument against the need for Universities as it is how to create jobs or, the need for a more entreprenural self; 2) Uconn- unlike a number of other flasgship state schools competes and is surrouned (in-state and adjoing areas) by a lot of small private colleges that cipher-off perhaps the top students in most cases; 3) Extending on the latter, it is forever fighting an image problem. I bet there are, still to be found, people in CT who think 'all this sport thing should be stopped and the money saved be used for proper things'. That is, the dream is that of Uconn as a little 'public-private college' taking its place behind Yale and the others.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

I don't know if this will help you any but here goes. I have degree in Psychology with an emphasis on schizophrenia. My goal through college was to be a Psychologist. One year after I graduated I took a job in IT and have been doing that for over 25 years. I don't know how closely you follow posts and responses, but I think the boneyard would agree that I am pretty solid when it comes to technology. My area of expertise is not programming. I mostly do infrastructure, hardware and data center. I do have a team of 10 people under me at this point and I can tell you when it comes to hiring, I don't give a rats ass about certifications or education. People do have to have a degree (not necessarily CS) to work in IT positions in my company, but we are government, so that may not be the case in other organizations.

I guess the point is you have to pass an interview to work for me and I don't care if you know the stuff you will be working on, you need to know how to think, learn and have a serious dedication/love for IT and show that you will work your ass off to figure out how to do your job.

A degree can't hurt (in my case, required) but I only hire people who are obviously interested in technology and I know will work their ass off to be a great technician. You have that and you have a job.

This is exactly how it goes. Even more so, if you ask a few very specific questions about the type of work that you do and the problems you run into and the person CLEARLY knows what they are talking about, that cant be faked, cant be studied for online, either you have the experience and you can do the job or you cant. Thats the beauty of IT. But yea i'll take someone who is enthusiastic, and has the right attitude and willingness to work as a team but doesnt have the skill or experience any day, they can be taught and molded the way that best fits your situation!