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OT top 10 power forwards of alltime
- Thread starter Scoe
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Man, you are lost.
sdhusky
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No, he is smarter than everyone else. Of course, he is smarter anyone associated with the NBA.
I can't wait to see him explain this away - and I promise he won't back down an inch.
What name is missing from this list?
1984-85 NBA Awards Voting
Most Valuable Player
Voting Per Game Shooting Advanced
Rank Player Age Tm First Pts Won Pts Max Share G MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK FG% 3P% FT% Win Shares
An estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player." style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px; font-style: inherit; text-align: center; border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(116, 118, 120) rgb(170, 170, 170); color: rgb(170, 0, 0); cursor: pointer; background-color: rgb(218, 220, 222);">WS Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
An estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player per 48 minutes (league average is approximately .100)" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px; font-style: inherit; text-align: center; border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(116, 118, 120) rgb(116, 118, 120) rgb(116, 118, 120) rgb(170, 170, 170); color: rgb(170, 0, 0); cursor: pointer; background-color: rgb(218, 220, 222);">WS/48
1 Larry Bird 28 BOS 73.0 763.0 780 0.978 80 39.5 28.7 10.5 6.6 1.6 1.2 .522 .427 .882 15.7 .238
2 Magic Johnson 25 LAL 1.0 264.0 780 0.338 77 36.1 18.3 6.2 12.6 1.5 0.3 .561 .189 .843 12.7 .220
3 Moses Malone 29 PHI 0.0 218.0 780 0.279 79 37.4 24.6 13.1 1.6 0.8 1.6 .469 .000 .815 11.9 .193
4 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 37 LAL 0.0 206.0 780 0.264 79 33.3 22.0 7.9 3.2 0.8 2.1 .599 .000 .732 11.2 .204
5 Terry Cummings 23 MIL 2.0 138.0 780 0.177 79 34.5 23.6 9.1 2.9 1.5 0.8 .495 .000 .741 10.7 .189
6 Michael Jordan 21 CHI 2.0 134.0 780 0.172 82 38.3 28.2 6.5 5.9 2.4 0.8 .515 .173 .845 14.0 .213
7 Bernard King 28 NYK 0.0 70.0 780 0.090 55 37.5 32.9 5.8 3.7 1.3 0.3 .530 .100 .772 7.1 .166
8 Sidney Moncrief 27 MIL 0.0 65.0 780 0.083 73 37.5 21.7 5.4 5.2 1.6 0.5 .483 .273 .828 11.2 .197
9 Isiah Thomas 23 DET 0.0 63.0 780 0.081 81 38.1 21.2 4.5 13.9 2.3 0.3 .458 .257 .809 11.2 .173
10 Ralph Sampson 24 HOU 0.0 26.0 780 0.033 82 37.6 22.1 10.4 2.7 1.0 2.0 .502 .000 .676 6.2 .096
11 Calvin Natt 28 DEN 0.0 22.0 780 0.028 78 34.1 23.3 7.8 3.1 1.0 0.4 .546 .000 .793 10.2 .185
12T Alex English 31 DEN 0.0 12.0 780 0.015 81 36.1 27.9 5.7 4.2 1.2 0.6 .518 .200 .829 8.9 .146
12T Hakeem Olajuwon 22 HOU 0.0 12.0 780 0.015 82 35.5 20.6 11.9 1.4 1.2 2.7 .538 .613 10.2 .168
14 Micheal Ray Richardson 29 NJN 0.0 11.0 780 0.014 82 38.1 20.1 5.6 8.2 3.0 0.3 .469 .252 .767 8.7 .134
15 Andrew Toney 27 PHI 0.0 5.0 780 0.006 70 32.0 17.8 2.5 5.2 0.9 0.3 .492 .371 .862 5.5 .118
16 Mark Eaton 28 UTA 0.0 4.0 780 0.005 82 34.3 9.7 11.3 1.5 0.4 5.6 .449 .712 5.4 .093
17T Paul Pressey 26 MIL 0.0 3.0 780 0.004 80 36.0 16.1 5.4 6.8 1.6 0.7 .517 .350 .758 9.6 .160
17T Jack Sikma 29 SEA 0.0 3.0 780 0.004 68 35.3 18.5 10.6 4.2 1.2 1.3 .489 .200 .852 8.3 .166
17T Dominique Wilkins 25 ATL 0.0 3.0 780 0.004 81 37.3 27.4 6.9 2.5 1.7 0.7 .451 .309 .806 7.6 .121
20T World B. Free 31 CLE 0.0 2.0 780 0.003 71 31.7 22.5 3.0 4.5 1.1 0.2 .459 .368 .749 6.0 .127
20T Purvis Short 27 GSW 0.0 2.0 780 0.003 78 39.5 28.0 5.1 3.0 1.5 0.3 .460 .313 .817 6.2 .097
22T Clyde Drexler 22 POR 0.0 1.0 780 0.001 80 31.9 17.2 6.0 5.5 2.2 0.9 .494 .216 .759 7.5 .141
22T Julius Erving 34 PHI 0.0 1.0 780 0.001 78 32.5 20.0 5.3 3.0 1.7 1.4 .494 .214 .765 7.6 .144
I can't wait to see him explain this away - and I promise he won't back down an inch.
What name is missing from this list?
1984-85 NBA Awards Voting
Most Valuable Player
Voting Per Game Shooting Advanced
Rank Player Age Tm First Pts Won Pts Max Share G MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK FG% 3P% FT% Win Shares
An estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player." style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px; font-style: inherit; text-align: center; border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(116, 118, 120) rgb(170, 170, 170); color: rgb(170, 0, 0); cursor: pointer; background-color: rgb(218, 220, 222);">WS Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
An estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player per 48 minutes (league average is approximately .100)" style="margin: 0px; padding: 3px; font-style: inherit; text-align: center; border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(116, 118, 120) rgb(116, 118, 120) rgb(116, 118, 120) rgb(170, 170, 170); color: rgb(170, 0, 0); cursor: pointer; background-color: rgb(218, 220, 222);">WS/48
1 Larry Bird 28 BOS 73.0 763.0 780 0.978 80 39.5 28.7 10.5 6.6 1.6 1.2 .522 .427 .882 15.7 .238
2 Magic Johnson 25 LAL 1.0 264.0 780 0.338 77 36.1 18.3 6.2 12.6 1.5 0.3 .561 .189 .843 12.7 .220
3 Moses Malone 29 PHI 0.0 218.0 780 0.279 79 37.4 24.6 13.1 1.6 0.8 1.6 .469 .000 .815 11.9 .193
4 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 37 LAL 0.0 206.0 780 0.264 79 33.3 22.0 7.9 3.2 0.8 2.1 .599 .000 .732 11.2 .204
5 Terry Cummings 23 MIL 2.0 138.0 780 0.177 79 34.5 23.6 9.1 2.9 1.5 0.8 .495 .000 .741 10.7 .189
6 Michael Jordan 21 CHI 2.0 134.0 780 0.172 82 38.3 28.2 6.5 5.9 2.4 0.8 .515 .173 .845 14.0 .213
7 Bernard King 28 NYK 0.0 70.0 780 0.090 55 37.5 32.9 5.8 3.7 1.3 0.3 .530 .100 .772 7.1 .166
8 Sidney Moncrief 27 MIL 0.0 65.0 780 0.083 73 37.5 21.7 5.4 5.2 1.6 0.5 .483 .273 .828 11.2 .197
9 Isiah Thomas 23 DET 0.0 63.0 780 0.081 81 38.1 21.2 4.5 13.9 2.3 0.3 .458 .257 .809 11.2 .173
10 Ralph Sampson 24 HOU 0.0 26.0 780 0.033 82 37.6 22.1 10.4 2.7 1.0 2.0 .502 .000 .676 6.2 .096
11 Calvin Natt 28 DEN 0.0 22.0 780 0.028 78 34.1 23.3 7.8 3.1 1.0 0.4 .546 .000 .793 10.2 .185
12T Alex English 31 DEN 0.0 12.0 780 0.015 81 36.1 27.9 5.7 4.2 1.2 0.6 .518 .200 .829 8.9 .146
12T Hakeem Olajuwon 22 HOU 0.0 12.0 780 0.015 82 35.5 20.6 11.9 1.4 1.2 2.7 .538 .613 10.2 .168
14 Micheal Ray Richardson 29 NJN 0.0 11.0 780 0.014 82 38.1 20.1 5.6 8.2 3.0 0.3 .469 .252 .767 8.7 .134
15 Andrew Toney 27 PHI 0.0 5.0 780 0.006 70 32.0 17.8 2.5 5.2 0.9 0.3 .492 .371 .862 5.5 .118
16 Mark Eaton 28 UTA 0.0 4.0 780 0.005 82 34.3 9.7 11.3 1.5 0.4 5.6 .449 .712 5.4 .093
17T Paul Pressey 26 MIL 0.0 3.0 780 0.004 80 36.0 16.1 5.4 6.8 1.6 0.7 .517 .350 .758 9.6 .160
17T Jack Sikma 29 SEA 0.0 3.0 780 0.004 68 35.3 18.5 10.6 4.2 1.2 1.3 .489 .200 .852 8.3 .166
17T Dominique Wilkins 25 ATL 0.0 3.0 780 0.004 81 37.3 27.4 6.9 2.5 1.7 0.7 .451 .309 .806 7.6 .121
20T World B. Free 31 CLE 0.0 2.0 780 0.003 71 31.7 22.5 3.0 4.5 1.1 0.2 .459 .368 .749 6.0 .127
20T Purvis Short 27 GSW 0.0 2.0 780 0.003 78 39.5 28.0 5.1 3.0 1.5 0.3 .460 .313 .817 6.2 .097
22T Clyde Drexler 22 POR 0.0 1.0 780 0.001 80 31.9 17.2 6.0 5.5 2.2 0.9 .494 .216 .759 7.5 .141
22T Julius Erving 34 PHI 0.0 1.0 780 0.001 78 32.5 20.0 5.3 3.0 1.7 1.4 .494 .214 .765 7.6 .144
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NBA blew it with those three straight MVP's for Bird, they should have been McHale's!
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Irrelevant to anything I wrote here.
Don't be dishonest. I said neither that McHale was better than Bird or that he was MVP. I said he put on a performance for the ages that few could ever match.
sdhusky
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There won't be an inch of back down. Not a sliver of admission of getting thing wrong.
McHale was a bad match up for the lakers, virtually unstoppable if he got the ball in the low post & a great defensive player.
But he wasn't the best player in the NBA.
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It's cause you two are mental nincompoops who read one thing and think another.
Yes, I said McHale was the best player in the NBA. That's what I said.
sdhusky
1972,73 & 98 Boneyard Poster of the Year
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Hmmm... you wrote
"For a period in 1985, McHale played better than any person in the NBA had during the 1980s, until Michael Jordan arrived. In other words, McHale's best was better than Bird's best. But McHale's window was so short."
We have these two lines:
"McHale played better than any person in the NBA had during the 1980s"
&
"I said neither that McHale was better than Bird"
I guess you are going to argue Bird wasn't a person. Go on...
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sdhusky
1972,73 & 98 Boneyard Poster of the Year
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"McHale played better than any person in the NBA had during the 1980s, until Michael Jordan arrived. In other words, McHale's best was better than Bird's best. But McHale's window was so short"
BTW- during the time MJ was out with a broken leg, I averaged the same number of points as he did. For that window, I matched the Greatest of all time, stat for stat.
In the last game, the Lakers were led by Abdul-Jabbar who scored 29 points as the Lakers defeated the Celtics 111-100. Celtics' forward Kevin McHale scored 32 points in the losing effort. Thanks to Michael Cooper's defense and an injured right hand (which led to Bird's offensive numbers plummeting midway through the postseason, and was later revealed to have been suffered during a fight with a Boston bartender named Mike Harlow), Larry Bird had a mediocre 12-for-29 shooting performance in the final game.
So, the window was NOT the entire season or playoff but during the time Bird had an injured right hand?
BTW- during the time MJ was out with a broken leg, I averaged the same number of points as he did. For that window, I matched the Greatest of all time, stat for stat.
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And you left out the part where I stated exactly what I meant.
His best. His best games. Both Bird and McHale went off for 50 point games late in that season, and McHale did it against the Detroit BadBoys, but the clear point here is that McHale had an unstoppable stretch that showed what he could do at his best.
In the 1985 finals only, Bird averaged 2 fewer ppg than McHale, 2 fewer rpg, 4 more apg, 2 more steals per game, and 1 fewer block per game. McHale shot a better percentage, but I would call that a draw.
I remember Bird being guarded by Cooper, and McHale being guarded by Rambis. Worthy was not a good defender either. Who of Bird or Parrish did they drop off from?
Again, McHale was a great player but Bird was beyond category.
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McHale was guarded by 8 guys at the same time.
Just watch the series.
Agree with your last, never said otherwise.
sdhusky
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But Bird went for 60 just a few days after McHale went for 50. (60 is bigger than 50)
So, for a window in 1985, McHale was the best player of the 80's but that window was so small he didn't finish in the top 20 in MVP voting.
The fact that Bird did end up getting the MVP has nothing to do with who was better.
Don't back down. Facts are NOT your friend. Just keep posting.
sdhusky
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The lakers only had 5 guys on the court, YYI.
It so funny, you just can't admit you got this wrong.
Hilarious.
sdhusky
1972,73 & 98 Boneyard Poster of the Year
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You are nuts if you think those stats show an nearly equal performance.
Why? Because Upstater said
"Bird had a very poor series in 1985."
&
"McHale played better than any person in the NBA had during the 1980s"
Who thought the difference between the best of a decade and "very poor" was that small?
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We all know what you said. McHale was a great player, that's not even up for debate but McHale's best wasn't better than Bird's best. Everyone knows Bird was easily the greater player and his best was better than McHale's and just about anybody else who has ever played in the NBA.
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McHale scored 56 against Detroit for the Celtics record. Six days later Bird dropped 60 on Atlanta in New Orleans in the greatest long distance shooting exhibition I had ever seen. The Hawks bench players seem to agree, as you'll see in this video.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...FxOeXcQ3ma3tiwLVw&sig2=O9KALYn45aRtKs4pk9BWIg
sdhusky
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LOL. Mixtape evidence.
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That was an amazing performance, I also like the one where he shot lefty for the hell of it and dropped 47 on Portland.
Forgotten is this argument is the fact that McHale was one of the best defensive players in the league. He drew the other guys studs while Bird got to rest in the paint waiting for the rebound. Bird had DJ, McHale and Parish to cover the fact that he was two steps to slow to cover the likes of Dominic, Bernard or Dr. J.
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I'd have Garnett ahead of Malone
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sdhusky
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He averaged 26 points a game.
He wasn't the MVP.
And his team lost.
Who else thinks that is an all-time great finals performance?
Funny you picked the three guys that Bird owned; he would score 2 on them for every 1 of theirs. He was better offensively and I guess better defensively than them.
I won't even talk about his passing, of which McHale and Parrish were the prime beneficiaries. I won't talk, but here's a video.
We always knew that Paul Pressey, Michael Ray Richardson, World B Free, Purvis Short, Mark Easton, Andrew Toney, Calvin Natt and Terry Cummings were all better players than Kevin McHale.
And this is proof? Its nonsense.
Yes, because the Celtics used McHale to guard King on the low post while Bird took notes.
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McHale was awesome - really couldn't be stopped on the block. Had a fadeaway that was money and it set everything else up where he could beat you with his third and fourth move.
But I believe that the term "black hole" was first used as a basketball term to describe him. Perhaps someone had that tag before him, but I remember it being used for McHale and causing some light hearted laughter. Bird's passing sets him apart. They were both top flight scorers and rebounders, but Bird was one of the best passers in the league too.
And, for the record, I hated both of them back then - except for when McHale had a funny cameo on Cheers.
But I believe that the term "black hole" was first used as a basketball term to describe him. Perhaps someone had that tag before him, but I remember it being used for McHale and causing some light hearted laughter. Bird's passing sets him apart. They were both top flight scorers and rebounders, but Bird was one of the best passers in the league too.
And, for the record, I hated both of them back then - except for when McHale had a funny cameo on Cheers.
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I'm shocked, shocked to see Celtics fans wildly overrating a former Celtic. Boston sports fans are so predictable. McHale belongs no higher than 6th on that list, and it's a distant 6th. Duncan, Malone, Garnett, Dirk, and Barkley are the five best PFs of all-time according to everyone who isn't a Celtics fan.
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