OT- Tony Stewart

[Rocktheworld]

Comparative negligence is the standard in most states. So if any part of this was Tony Stewart's fault, he'll pay something. I think it would be pretty easy to lay some of the blame on Stewart.

How? Way too many people here are assuming some level of intent just because of the scuffle that preceded it. If I ran out on that track in to oncoming racing traffic and got killed, no matter how it happened, dude would not be forced to take responsibility for my purposely putting myself in such a stupidly life-threatening situation. I'd be written off as some moron who literally played in traffic like an idiot; sad, but Darwin's theory at work. This guy does it, and for some weird reason, people are actively looking to shift some of the blame on to Stewart.

 

[Strummer]

Comparative negligence is the standard in most states. So if any part of this was Tony Stewart's fault, he'll pay something. I think it would be pretty easy to lay some of the blame on Stewart.

NY is a pure comparative fault state. Even so, I think that it would be very difficult to claim that Ward wasn't 90% or more at fault for what happened. Let me put it this way - good luck finding a good attorney to take that case on a pure contingency basis.
Better lawsuit is against NASCAR for indirectly encouraging this sort of behavior and because they'll want to settle AQAP. I know that sounds like it's removing the blame from Ward for doing something so stupid, but it's no different than, for example, a fair company allowing sliding down a steep hill as an attraction and then having someone break his neck while sliding, or a baseball park that doesn't have a rule against hanging over the railing, and someone falls.
NASCAR is substantially responsible for what happened.

Ball don't lie.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

NY is a pure comparative fault state. Even so, I think that it would be very difficult to claim that Ward wasn't 90% or more at fault for what happened. Let me put it this way - good luck finding a good attorney to take that case on a pure contingency basis.
Better lawsuit is against NASCAR for indirectly encouraging this sort of behavior and because they'll want to settle AQAP. I know that sounds like it's removing the blame from Ward for doing something so stupid, but it's no different than, for example, a fair company allowing sliding down a steep hill as an attraction and then having someone break his neck while sliding, or a baseball park that doesn't have a rule against hanging over the railing, and someone falls.
NASCAR is substantially responsible for what happened.

Ball don't lie.

Wasn't it already established that this was not a NASCAR sanctioned event?

 

[joober jones]

Tony Stewart has a short fuse, but I don't think he'd ever intentionally kill someone, much less in front of a crowd.

 

[Strummer]

Wasn't it already established that this was not a NASCAR sanctioned event?

Oh - didn't know that. In that case, NASCAR should consider this a bit of a stroke of luck, and they should change their rules pronto.
Sue whoever runs the event, if that body follows the NASCAR model with regard to driver's doing stupid things.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Oh - didn't know that. In that case, NASCAR should consider this a bit of a stroke of luck, and they should change their rules pronto.
Sue whoever runs the event, if that body follows the NASCAR model with regard to driver's doing stupid things.

The rules, or guidelines, also say drivers should stay in their cars.

As for Stewart, he's worth over $100M. He was also reportedly exceeding the maximum caution flag speed. He hit the kid while others missed. He'll settle pretty quickly.

 

[CAHUSKY]

How? Way too many people here are assuming some level of intent just because of the scuffle that preceded it. If I ran out on that track in to oncoming racing traffic and got killed, no matter how it happened, dude would not be forced to take responsibility for my purposely putting myself in such a stupidly life-threatening situation. I'd be written off as some moron who literally played in traffic like an idiot; sad, but Darwin's theory at work. This guy does it, and for some weird reason, people are actively looking to shift some of the blame on to Stewart.

Unless a driver sped up and swerved towards you. In which case they would clearly assume liability even if you were an idiot playing in traffic.

 

[CL82]

The sheriff only said there is an investigation under way. No yes vs. no re: criminal charges.
The video is disturbing.
Your insanity comment re: Stewart is understandable. He said last night that he'd race at which time I'm sure he was in shock. He woke up today clearer-headed. Generally sane people don't behave in a sane manner sometimes. Like Stewart after the incident. Like Kevin Ward acting out his 'road rage' in an insane manner, doing something he'd never do when clear-headed.
Did Stewart originally bump Ward on purpose to cause the spin-out? That would not surprise me. Did he maneuver to hit Ward as he ran at him. That's highly unlikely.

Was he going to drift to spray some punk who was calling him out? Possibly.

 

[Jimdish255]

It's beyond a stretch to believe he knew Ward would be out of his car, walking on the track to confront him, so he got himself in position before the turn.

Given the history of these things and Tony Stewart's history of confrontation and the fact that he dumped the guy into the wall why would it be a stretch?

 

[Jimdish255]

How? Way too many people here are assuming some level of intent just because of the scuffle that preceded it. If I ran out on that track in to oncoming racing traffic and got killed, no matter how it happened, dude would not be forced to take responsibility for my purposely putting myself in such a stupidly life-threatening situation. I'd be written off as some moron who literally played in traffic like an idiot; sad, but Darwin's theory at work. This guy does it, and for some weird reason, people are actively looking to shift some of the blame on to Stewart.

If it was a track worker cleaning up debris would that make a difference? The fact that he was on the track doesn't make him fair game and he's far from the first guy to ever do it. IMO (not a lawyer) the question is whether dangerous actions were taken that a driver with Stewart's experience could or should reasonably have known had the potential to cause injury to the other driver - assuming he was aware of the driver's location on the track. Hard to prove but not impossible with film, witnesses and others nearby who could see and hear what happened. Issues of visibility make it really hard to blame the driver unless contradicted by multiple sources.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Given the history of these things and Tony Stewart's history of confrontation and the fact that he dumped the guy into the wall why would it be a stretch?

Yes

 

[Jimdish255]

My last post on this for now. I don't believe Tony Stewart had any intention of hitting Kevin Ward but after watching the video again I looked for 2 things. How far ahead was the previous car from Tony and where were the 2 cars relative to each other on the groove.

First - There was a significant gap between the car ahead of Tony and his car which opened up the field of view considerably. And given the tightness of the turns he had to be looking almost straight ahead at Kevin as the car ahead passed. That suggests time to react.

Second - For whatever reason Tony's car was almost 1/2 groove higher on the track than the car ahead of him. We can't know why without the earlier video, but he certainly hadn't gone as low on the track to avoid the wreck or the driver. Why is open to question but multiple sources suggested he accelerated ahead of the wreck and then tried to correct as the car broke loose. You can see the correction afterwards.

That's it for me until more facts come out but I wish I hadn't noticed those 2 things.

 

[Rocktheworld]

(not a lawyer)

lmao yup the rest of your post made it more than obvious that logic is not your forte.

People have done something glaringly idiotic before, therefore
The next idiot is not responsible for the highly possible consequences of taking similar actions, and further
Responsibility for said consequences is not only lifted off said idiot's shoulders, but then placed upon someone else's.

Brilliant.

It's like some guy goes blazing down some mountain bike trail, wipes out and dies, and we blame the mountain because a rock went loose.

The only way you can even start to make it fit your case is assuming agency which will absolutely make an ass out of you at this moment.

 

[ZooCougar]

If it was a track worker cleaning up debris would that make a difference? The fact that he was on the track doesn't make him fair game and he's far from the first guy to ever do it. IMO (not a lawyer) the question is whether dangerous actions were taken that a driver with Stewart's experience could or should reasonably have known had the potential to cause injury to the other driver - assuming he was aware of the driver's location on the track. Hard to prove but not impossible with film, witnesses and others nearby who could see and hear what happened. Issues of visibility make it really hard to blame the driver unless contradicted by multiple sources.

The most dangerous action that occurred was a person on two feet confronting 2ooo+lb hunk of metal. Dirt track on less than perfectly lit section, wearing black? What could possibly go wrong? The bulk of the responsibility here lies with the victim.

 

[uconnell]

If you watch the video you will see Ward runing further onto the track to be closer to Stewart's car. It appears that he was almost directly in front of Tony 's car, at that time. If tony was heading into a turn the car sorts of drifts through with the rear end kicking out somewhat. There are still some dark spots on the track and with the wing and spoiler on the front also contribute to minimize ones view. He was not speeding at the time as several cars passed him, lower on the track.

I am not a Stewart fan. Just my 2cents.

 

[David 76]

None of us knows. How come so many are so sure?
It is not clear from the video. Stewart isn't absolved from trouble if he didn't intend to do it. Ward did something very reckless. That won't totally excuse Stewart IF Stewart did something reckless as well.
Beyond that,we don't know anything.

 

[Geno-ista]

I've watched it and I'm by no means a Stewart fan but he did not try to hit him. He definitely gave the car an Kid thrust as he passed and it looks like it made the rear kick out. But there's no way he was trying to hit him. If you want to hit someone with your car, you use the front, not a rear tire.

As for other drivers missing him, you can see the 45 car in front of him having to take pretty severe action to miss him and it's also very likely that the kid was way closer to Stewart's car than anyone else as that is the guy he was trying to confront.

Pretty easy to fix this going forward. Stay in your car until safety crews allow you to exit (unless it's on fire).

You'll see this rule next year in NASCAR.

You have to be kidding me- these guys know how to make a car do everything and anything. He is a master at what he does. The kid was wrong to do what he did. And he sped up to fish tail that car to tap him or try at best to spin a lot of dirt at him- either way it will be maybe involuntary manslaughter. I hope every penny he has ends up in that family's pockets- and it will. Mark my words. He caused the accident, so he knew where it was and that there was a caution b 4 anyone else. No one advances under a caution. He sped up to wack the kid- it's obvious. I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail where he belongs.

 

[dogpause]

It's a shame that, in a moment of road rage, Ward was killed, and also that Stewart's career will never be the same, but the only person that will ever know the truth is Tony Stewart, in what may have also been a moment of road rage, and he will probably take his secret to his grave. As for the rest of us, we'll believe what we choose to believe.

 

[Waquoit]

He sped up to wack the kid- it's obvious.

With his rear wheels?

 

[Strummer]

I hope every penny he has ends up in that family's pockets- and it will. Mark my words. He caused the accident, so he knew where it was and that there was a caution b 4 anyone else. No one advances under a caution. He sped up to wack the kid- it's obvious. I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail where he belongs.

The best thing about getting a visit from the ladies' board is that the sort of panties-in-a-wad, overwrought, uber emotional, misting up, failure-of-all-logic post that you see above makes all the other illogical "he tried to hit him and a crime was committed" posts in thread seem all the less irrational.

 

[Dave Carlson]

You have to be kidding me- these guys know how to make a car do everything and anything. He is a master at what he does. The kid was wrong to do what he did. And he sped up to fish tail that car to tap him or try at best to spin a lot of dirt at him- either way it will be maybe involuntary manslaughter. I hope every penny he has ends up in that family's pockets- and it will. Mark my words. He caused the accident, so he knew where it was and that there was a caution b 4 anyone else. No one advances under a caution. He sped up to wack the kid- it's obvious. I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail where he belongs.

Finally, some common sense on this subject. How could I have missed the fact that these guys know how to make a care do everything and anything and so this had to be intentional? Their complete and total mastery of their cars should have been obvious based on the fact that there hasn't been at least one crash in every single car race ever and no drivers have ever been killed during a race either. Thanks for opening my eyes. I'm slightly surprised that you were able to operate a computer and access the internet, so congrats on that as well.

 

[uconnell]

The best thing about getting a visit from the ladies' board is that the sort of panties-in-a-wad, overwrought, uber emotional, misting up, failure-of-all-logic post that you see above makes all the other illogical "he tried to hit him and a crime was committed" posts in thread seem all the less irrational.

Hey, hey watch that,I'm from the ladies board,well from the mens board and the football board. Don't assume we all get our panties in a wad.

 

[Jimdish255]

You have to be kidding me- these guys know how to make a car do everything and anything. He is a master at what he does. The kid was wrong to do what he did. And he sped up to fish tail that car to tap him or try at best to spin a lot of dirt at him- either way it will be maybe involuntary manslaughter. I hope every penny he has ends up in that family's pockets- and it will. Mark my words. He caused the accident, so he knew where it was and that there was a caution b 4 anyone else. No one advances under a caution. He sped up to wack the kid- it's obvious. I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail where he belongs.

A lot of posters on this board know squat about racing so they misrepresent your observations as accusing a guy of murder or absolving the other driver of blame. See the patronizing bizarre analogies from our resident Clarence Darrow about driving a bike off a cliff. Is that your "go to" closing argument? Expected better. And then there's the "How could Tony Stewart have possibly expected the other guy to run towards his car?" Really!

Dave there are plenty of racing accidents. Accidents on a short track passing an accident scene are rare. They're under caution and drivers are usually extra careful because they know track workers and other drivers are on the track. Surprised you can't differentiate or choose to ignore that fact.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC8Jyuryc_s

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

This situation begs the question...what would you do?

For discussion sake...let's assume that Tony's anger got the best of him...and he intended to scare the kid a little but it went horribly wrong. So there is no intent...just a collasal f up. Knowing what I know about Tony and this situation...I would say this is what I think happened.

So you are Tony.....what do you do? Fess up and go to jail? What would that do...won't bring the kid back. The only thing it will do is give you a piece of mind that you did the right thing. But doing the right thing means destroying your life.

Would you do the selfless right thing and confess that you messed up....or would you try to bury it away and move on with your life. One path results in losing everything.....your freedom, your wealth and your future. The other path you may retain your career and wealth but you will feel guilty as hell.

I would like to say I would do the right thing...but I am sure it is a tough call for him.

 

[Jimdish255]

This situation begs the question...what would you do?

For discussion sake...let's assume that Tony's anger got the best of him...and he intended to scare the kid a little but it went horribly wrong. So there is no intent...just a collasal f up. Knowing what I know about Tony and this situation...I would say this is what I think happened.

So you are Tony.....what do you do? Fess up and go to jail? What would that do...won't bring the kid back. The only thing it will do is give you a piece of mind that you did the right thing. But doing the right thing means destroying your life.

Would you do the selfless right thing and confess that you messed up....or would you try to bury it away and move on with your life. One path results in losing everything.....your freedom, your wealth and your future. The other path you may retain your career and wealth but you will feel guilty as hell.

I would like to say I would do the right thing...but I am sure it is a tough call for him.

All good points. I happen to like Tony Stewart and what he brings to racing. He does care about the other guys and this year his main team is struggling. He must be under tremendous stress and in a lot of pain. In the end he's a stand up guy and if push came to shove I think he's likely to shoulder his share of the blame. Seeing him destroyed is not the best outcome but the young man's family deserves answers.

 

[Dave Carlson]

A lot of posters on this board know squat about racing so they misrepresent your observations as accusing a guy of murder or absolving the other driver of blame. See the patronizing bizarre analogies from our resident Clarence Darrow about driving a bike off a cliff. Is that your "go to" closing argument? Expected better. And then there's the "How could Tony Stewart have possibly expected the other guy to run towards his car?" Really!

Dave there are plenty of racing accidents. Accidents on a short track passing an accident scene are rare. They're under caution and drivers are usually extra careful because they know track workers and other drivers are on the track. Surprised you can't differentiate or choose to ignore that fact.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC8Jyuryc_s

Accidents on a short track passing an accident are probably rare because I'm guessing that it is somewhat unusual to have the driver who crashed angrily running down the track very close to where the cars are passing to confront a moving car as if it were a person or something made of cotton candy instead of a deadly weapon. Tony Stewart is going to be held to the standards of a resonable person under the circumstances, not the standard of what a super-intelligent, infinitely skilled magician conjured from your imnagination would do when someone makes a run at his moving car on a dark racetrack.

 

[uconnell]

This situation begs the question...what would you do?

For discussion sake...let's assume that Tony's anger got the best of him...and he intended to scare the kid a little but it went horribly wrong. So there is no intent...just a collasal f up. Knowing what I know about Tony and this situation...I would say this is what I think happened.

So you are Tony.....what do you do? Fess up and go to jail? What would that do...won't bring the kid back. The only thing it will do is give you a piece of mind that you did the right thing. But doing the right thing means destroying your life.

Would you do the selfless right thing and confess that you messed up....or would you try to bury it away and move on with your life. One path results in losing everything.....your freedom, your wealth and your future. The other path you may retain your career and wealth but you will feel guilty as hell.

I would like to say I would do the right thing...but I am sure it is a tough call for him.

I don't believe that is what happened Just my thoughts. Although I have seen really scary things happen on the tracks. A lstarter killed at Danbury years ago, even though the flag mans perch was way
above the track it jutted out over the track . A scrum right at the start and a car launched over another and killed the flagman.

 

[Jimdish255]

Accidents on a short track passing an accident are probably rare because I'm guessing that it is somewhat unusual to have the driver who crashed angrily running down the track very close to where the cars are passing to confront a moving car as if it were a person or something made of cotton candy instead of a deadly weapon. Tony Stewart is going to be held to the standards of a resonable person under the circumstances, not the standard of what a super-intelligent, infinitely skilled magician conjured from your imnagination would do when someone makes a run at his moving car on a dark racetrack.

Wrong. He should be held to the standards of an experienced professional driver because that's what he is. Drop the hyperbole it undermines your point.

 

[intlzncster]

All good points. I happen to like Tony Stewart and what he brings to racing. He does care about the other guys and this year his main team is struggling. He must be under tremendous stress and in a lot of pain. In the end he's a stand up guy and if push came to shove I think he's likely to shoulder his share of the blame. Seeing him destroyed is not the best outcome but the young man's family deserves answers.

Don't know if this had been posted, as I was buried by all the legalese, but here's the kid's father's opinion:

"I think the reason he probably got out of that car is who put him into the wall. He was definitely put into the wall," Ward Sr. said.

Kevin was dressed in an orange and black suit with fluorescent stripes down the sides that glowed under the lights, his father said. There was a caution flag, racers were slowing and moving to the bottom of the track, he said. The other drivers saw Kevin walking, his father said.

"Apparently, Tony Stewart was the only one driving out there who didn't see him," he said.

"Tony Stewart was the best damn driver by far on the track that night. Why he had to go up as high as he did and hog my son, there's no reason for it," Ward Sr. said.

Kevin got out of his car and walked along the track as if to confront Stewart, who hit Ward.

The crash is controversial. Debates are raging on the Internet over Stewart's intent and Kevin's behavior.

"The one person that knows what happened that night is possibly facing 10 years in prison. Is he going to say what he done?" Ward Sr. said.
​

Man, the kid was young:

 

[Husky25]

Unfortunately, Ward, Sr.'s opinion is irrelevant to the situation. Far too much emotion to be unbiased. Of course he is going to blame "the other guy" when his son is involved.