OT: Tom Brady GOAT | Page 7 | The Boneyard

OT: Tom Brady GOAT

upstater said:
Let's iron this out. Is your point that the Patriots have an easy road to the bye because they play those teams twice?
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Show me where I said that. Your not gonna convince anyone the AFC East is good.
 
Why does the league rely on the Giants to do the dirty work?
 
If you're a Patriot fan why are you even wasting your time debating trolls?

If someone can't look at the staggering number of wins, division titles, conference titles and Super Bowls that Brady and Bill have amassed over the years you're just blind.

This is their 8th Super Bowl and going for their 6th Super Bowl win.

It's legitimately staggering.

I've tried to talk away some of their success before this latest mini-dynasty, but there's just nothing left to say.

I'm envious, jealous, whatever you want to call it. It makes me SICK.

That said, I hope they beat the Eagles, because nothing would be worse than an Eagles SB win.
 
Scoe said:
Show me where I said that. Your not gonna convince anyone the AFC East is good.
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I'm asking a question.

I didn't say you said that. This whole topic was brought up by other people, who DID say that.

This is why I said it's totally irrelevant.
 
I love the people who claim that Brady is merely a system QB. By definition EVERY quarterback is a system QB.

Heck, Peyton Manning took the Indianapolis "system" to Denver.
 
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ConnHuskBask said:
If you're a Patriot fan why are you even wasting your time debating trolls?

If someone can't look at the staggering number of wins, division titles, conference titles and Super Bowls that Brady and Bill have amassed over the years you're just blind.

This is their 8th Super Bowl and going for their 6th Super Bowl win.

It's legitimately staggering.

I've tried to talk away some of their success before this latest mini-dynasty, but there's just nothing left to say.

I'm envious, jealous, whatever you want to call it. It makes me SICK.

That said, I hope they beat the Eagles, because nothing would be worse than an Eagles SB win.
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Some Pats fans feel the need to win every single argument as if what they accomplished isn't enough. Im debating who to route for being a Giants fan im definitely ok with the Eagles not winning a Super Bowl. It is cool to be the only team to beat the Pats in a Super Bowl in the BB-TB era. I dont want the eagles fans to have that claim of beating the pats, of course nothing can top beating an undefeated team, the 2nd Super Bowl was to show that it wasn't a fluke. The Pats winning helps Eli's legacy.
 
Rocktheworld said:
It is fun poking at Pats fans when they show Brady win Giselle and their family when I say “where’s Tom’s REAL family??” as in the pregnant wife he left when he decided he wanted a rich supermodel over the mother of his child

I wouldn’t go as far as (redundantly) “impeccably flawless”
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Brady was never married to Bridget Moynahan. His son with her is partially named after him.
 
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Husky25 said:
I love the people who claim that Brady is merely a system QB. By definition EVERY quarterback is a system QB.
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I think that comment is more so what the success is attributed. Because quarterbacks are not by definition “system” players. Some dudes just have great arms (Rodgers, Ben, Rivers) or legs (Wilson, Vick). The specific system put in place benefits some QBs. The next logical step in that argument is the question of how successful Brady would be outside of Belichick’s system; how great we would consider him if he played 15 years in Cincinnati or Houston or Buffalo
 
Rocktheworld said:
I think that comment is more so what the success is attributed. Because quarterbacks are not by definition “system” players. Some dudes just have great arms (Rodgers, Ben, Rivers) or legs (Wilson, Vick). The specific system put in place benefits some QBs. The next logical step in that argument is the question of how successful Brady would be outside of Belichick’s system; how great we would consider him if he played 15 years in Cincinnati or Houston or Buffalo
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It's been 17 years, no other team has thought to put in the system that brought the Patriots to 8 Super Bowls.
 
nychuskyfan said:
I’m a Giants fan and think that the Pats records until 2007 should have asterisks next to them. Spygate was not an isolated incident or two - it was a system of cheating that culminated in them having detailed binders on every DC and basically knowing the exact defense that was going to be run against them. The fact that the NFL destroyed the evidence rather than have it see the light of day tells you how bad it was.

Even with my harsh take on Spygate, the decade since is impossible to ignore - Brady is the GOAT and I’m not sure how anyone can argue otherwise. And Deflategate was bs.
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One could argue Joe Montana - four rings, never lost one and a slew of post season and super bowl records. This has been compared many times - Brady has better regular season comps, but Montana better in the biggest spot. Patriots fans have dismissed Peyton Manning inclusion in any conversation because he only had regular season success so it seems that Patriots fans value post season success more than regular season success.

The same dynamic existed there - who got the credit - coach or player and oddly enough both had more than competent back-up QB's. Now I'm not saying Jimmy G is Steve Young, but his early results seems to point to him having success.

I'm not a Niners or a Pats fan.
 
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upstater said:
It's been 17 years, no other team has thought to put in the system that brought the Patriots to 8 Super Bowls.
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Keep in mind I’m not making that claim per se; he’s still the guy under center making the throws. Honestly if I were a Pats fan I’d point to all the different coordinators that have come through and Brady has succeeded.
 
1. The majority of New England fans, who were Red Sox fans also, did not respect Jeter or what the Yankees accomplished in the 90s and early 2000s.
2. Spygate was more than the dishonest people here want to believe. Why do you think the NFL front office tried to get the Patriots on other stuff? It was a vendetta.
3. Do Patriots fans remember how much they hated the Yankees? How much they hated Duke? How much they hated the Cowboys? Well, in the eyes of non-patriot fans, the disdain for the patriots reaches a level that is equivalent to all those combined for patriot fans. Call it sour grapes from haters all you want but that is the reality.
4. How has Brady pulled off that miracle of staying healthy? Luckiest man alive? Perhaps. Or maybe Papi introduced him to his guy.
5. Funny how the Patriots are this miracle come back team. Is Brady also the most clutch man alive?

Boy, this guy is something. He is the smartest man alive, the luckiest man alive, the most clutch man alive and he is Mr. Unbreakable. Simply amazing.
 
There were barely any Patriots fans in Connecticut west of the Connecticut River before Brady and Belichick.

Brady also has not won #6 yet. He's still tied with Bart Starr for most pro gridiron championships.

The hatred for the Patriots is amusing stuff. People, we don't get to witness players like this often. I was a Patriots fan back in the Eason/Grogan days. So, enjoy it.
 
Paesano said:
1. The majority of New England fans, who were Red Sox fans also, did not respect Jeter or what the Yankees accomplished in the 90s and early 2000s.

Oh well, I only heard of good stuff about him.

2. Spygate was more than the dishonest people here want to believe. Why do you think the NFL front office tried to get the Patriots on other stuff? It was a vendetta.

It's dishonest to steal signals? Then why wasn't it a big deal prior to that? The reason why the NFL office does what it does with respect to Spygate, Deflategate, Bountygate, Ezekiel, etc., is because Roger Goodell makes $40m a year and he is going to do what the majority of owners want him to do, and all these guys want to prop up their teams at the expense of perceived competitors. This is how the NFL runs. It explains why the Jets don't get in trouble for filming from the sidelines while the Patriots do. Or why teams don't get bagged for altering the ball when they are caught on film while the Patriots are bagged for supposedly doing it (not on film).

3. Do Patriots fans remember how much they hated the Yankees? How much they hated Duke? How much they hated the Cowboys? Well, in the eyes of non-patriot fans, the disdain for the patriots reaches a level that is equivalent to all those combined for patriot fans. Call it sour grapes from haters all you want but that is the reality.
4. How has Brady pulled off that miracle of staying healthy? Luckiest man alive? Perhaps. Or maybe Papi introduced him to his guy.
5. Funny how the Patriots are this miracle come back team. Is Brady also the most clutch man alive?

Boy, this guy is something. He is the smartest man alive, the luckiest man alive, the most clutch man alive and he is Mr. Unbreakable. Simply amazing.
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For sure, you're right. Brady is taking steroids, which explains his massive muscles.
 
upstater said:
For sure, you're right. Brady is taking steroids, which explains his massive muscles.
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He's huge on ancient Chinese medicine. That field of medicine has been criminally stigmatized.
 
Butch said:
There were barely any Patriots fans in Connecticut west of the Connecticut River before Brady and Belichick.

Brady also has not won #6 yet. He's still tied with Bart Starr for most pro gridiron championships.
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New Haven here. I grew up with a ton of Patriots fans in my neighborhood, since 1976 for me. We used to drive up to Foxboro for games in the 1980s, all of us high school kids.

The Giants were the most popular, Jets were scattered.

NBC had those AFC games in the past, and the Patriots were on TV like clockwork.
 
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Rocktheworld said:
I think that comment is more so what the success is attributed. Because quarterbacks are not by definition “system” players. Some dudes just have great arms (Rodgers, Ben, Rivers) or legs (Wilson, Vick). The specific system put in place benefits some QBs. The next logical step in that argument is the question of how successful Brady would be outside of Belichick’s system; how great we would consider him if he played 15 years in Cincinnati or Houston or Buffalo
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Sure they are.

If quarterbacks are not by definition “system” players, then how can you say, "The specific system put in place benefits some QBs."?

QB are defined by a system because the game of American football is extremely system-centric. It's the nature of the game. Brady has played equally well for Charlie Weis, Josh McDaniel, and Bill O'Brien. In Brady's case, the "system" evolved around the QB (2001 was a lot of short passes and moving the chains) rather than plugging the QB. Just like for Peyton Manning. Once he established himself, no matter who was his offensive coordinator or head coach, Manning was author of the offense. He dictated the "system."
 
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Northbound said:
One could argue Joe Montana - four rings, never lost one and a slew of post season and super bowl records. This has been compared many times - Brady has better regular season comps, but Montana better in the biggest spot. Patriots fans have dismissed Peyton Manning inclusion in any conversation because he only had regular season success so it seems that Patriots fans value post season success more than regular season success.

The same dynamic existed there - who got the credit - coach or player and oddly enough both had more than competent back-up QB's. Now I'm not saying Jimmy G is Steve Young, but his early results seems to point to him having success.

I'm not a Niners or a Pats fan.
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Montana is undefeated in Super Bowls and Brady is not. The argument would exists only if all things were equal. In other words, if Montana went to 7 (now 8) Super Bowls. He did not. He went to four.

Montana is 4-0 in the Super Bowl, but is 4-3 in the Conference Championship Game. Brady has a 5-2 Super Bowl record and is 8-4 in Conference championship. Brady has won more Super Bowls, been to more of them, as well as been to more Conference Championship games.

Look at it in pseudo medal terms (Gold, Silver, Bronze).

Montana's medal count (best case, assuming his team won the bronze medal game) would be 4-0-3. Brady's would be at least 5-2-4, with a guaranteed silver or better to come.
 
Husky25 said:
Sure they are.

If quarterbacks are not by definition “system” players, then how can you say, "The specific system put in place benefits some QBs."?

QB are defined by a system because the game of American football is extremely system-centric. It's the nature of the game. Brady has played equally well for Charlie Weis, Josh McDaniel, and Bill O'Brien. In Brady's case, the "system" evolved around the QB (2001 was a lot of short passes and moving the chains) rather than plugging the QB. Just like for Peyton Manning. Once he established himself, no matter who was his offensive coordinator or head coach, Manning was author of the offense. He dictated the "system."
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I’ll refer you to a post I made in reply to Upstater in which I explicitly state that I still give Brady credit for making the throws, and that if I were a Pats fan, my main retort is exactly what you said: that several coordinators have come through NE and Brady has won under them all
 
Husky25 said:
Montana is 4-0 in the Super Bowl, but is 4-3 in the Conference Championship Game. Brady has a 5-2 Super Bowl record and is 8-4 in Conference championship. Brady has won more Super Bowls, been to more of them, as well as been to more Conference Championship games.
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I never understood this argument either.

Almost like saying UConn's 4 championships > Duke's 5 championships because Duke has been to 16 Final Fours.
 
Rocktheworld said:
I’ll refer you to a post I made in reply to Upstater in which I explicitly state that I still give Brady credit for making the throws, and that if I were a Pats fan, my main retort is exactly what you said: that several coordinators have come through NE and Brady has won under them all
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I will guarantee that NO ONE in the NFL goes into a huddle and says/hears, "Number 83, you do an out. Number 34, I'm gonna fake a hand off to you, Number 14, run down the field as fast as you can, I'm looking for you. You fat guys just make sure I don't get hit." No, they all have a systematic process how they call and play the game and plays theoretically build upon what happens during preceding called plays. It's inherent. Obviously, credit has to be given to execution but that and planning go hand in hand. They cannot be separated. The Patriots have a system, to be sure. So does Cincinnati, Houston, and Buffalo. The difference is the latter three are forced to change the pieces far more often and far more drastically than what happens in Foxborough.
 
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