OT Tim Brando: "There is too much privilege in college football"

[dwalks93]

Yup - very good analysis. Only thing you left out is that the current system also perpetuates Notre Dame's precious independant status and individualized television and media contract with NBC..

Notre Dame's status is still untested. Clearly ND has a "preferred status" to every G5 team and is a "playoff selectable" team based on its current ranking (#3). However, ND is one of only 4 undefeated teams so we aren't comparing apples to apples.

The better questions is how to does ND rank against a P5 conference champion with the same win/loss record? ND is ranked so high right now because they are undefeated and a number of traditional P5 playoff selectable teams have lost a game (OSU, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc...)

The test will be what happens if ND loses a game? Would a one loss ND be selected over a one loss Big10 champion? What about a one loss ND versus one loss Big 12 champion? Or is it all team dependant? For example, would a one loss Big 12 champion Oklahoma get a playoff spot over a 1 loss ND but a one loss ND selected over a one loss Big12 champion WVU?

Bottom line - every UConn fan should be cheering for ND football to lose a game. What UConn needs is for a one loss ND to get passed over for playoff selection for a couple of one loss P5 champions. The only way ND ever joins a conference is if they believe their independant status hurts their ability to win a championship. Oh, and if ND decides to join a conference, it may start a new shuffle.

 

[Irishfan]

Notre Dame's status is still untested. Clearly ND has a "preferred status" to every G5 team and is a "playoff selectable" team based on its current ranking (#3). However, ND one of only 4 undefeated teams so we aren't comparing apples to apples.

The better questions is how to does ND rank against a P5 conference champion with the same win/loss record? ND is ranked so high right now because they are undeated and a number of traditional P5 playoff selectable teams have lost a game (OSU, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc...)

The test will be what happens if ND loses a game? Would a one loss ND be selected over a one loss Big10 champion? What about a one loss ND versus one loss Big 12 champion? Or is it all team dependant? For example, would a one loss Big 12 champion Oklahoma get a playoff spot over a 1 loss ND but a one loss ND selected over a one loss Big12 champion WVU?

Bottom line - every UConn fan should be cheering for ND football to lose a game. What UConn needs is for a one loss ND to get passed over for playoff selection for a couple of one loss P5 champions. The only way ND ever joins a conference is if they believe their independant status hurts their ability to win a championship. Oh, and if ND decides to join a conference, it may start a new shuffle.

Would a one loss Michigan get in over a one loss ND, considering that Michigan’s one loss was to ND.

 

[DoctorWho85]

Would a one loss Michigan get in over a one loss ND, considering that Michigan’s one loss was to ND.

Michigan absolutely would get in over ND

 

[billybud]

Five decades ago, I was in college, the Big Ten and Notre Dame were the traditional eastern big boys. And they still are.

Breaking in against the traditional powers doesn't happen overnight.

Fan bases are built, traditions built, gazillions expended, and decades spent chasing that white whale of a NC...before success.

UCF, like Miami, and FSU did, has a unique recruiting advantage over many programs..an advantage that may allow them to break through.

 

[dwalks93]

Would a one loss Michigan get in over a one loss ND, considering that Michigan’s one loss was to ND.

It's a great question and it goes to the untested nature of Notre Dame's status.

Clearly ND would have won a head to head match up with Michigan. But then again, ND would have lost more recently and Michigan would be on a 12 game winning streak.

At the end of the day I'll pick the money and the money is with the conferences. The Big10 won't let their 1 loss champion get snubbed and the P5 conferences will look out for each other...IMO if it comes down to ND/Michigan and they have both lost a game then Michigan gets the nod.

 

[Irishfan]

It's a great question and it goes to the untested nature of Notre Dame's status.

Clearly ND would have won a head to head match up with Michigan. But then again, ND would have lost more recently and Michigan would be on a 12 game winning streak.

At the end of the day I'll pick the money and the money is with the conferences. The Big10 won't let their 1 loss champion get snubbed and the P5 conferences will look out for each other...IMO if it comes down to ND/Michigan and they have both lost a game then Michigan gets the nod.

Of course, ND played Michigan with what is now their second string QB and without their best running back. But I agree that the conference’s will talk about that 13th data point as though it is really important. Of course, regarding those data points, Clemson would have Furman, Bama would have Louisiana Lafayette, and Michigan would have Western Michigan. And head to head should mean something. Maybe Clemson will beat Bama in the championship game, and they give the national championship to Alabama. If head to head doesn’t matter now, why should it matter then.

 

[billybud]

Penn State was the Big 10 Champ, beat Ohio State head to head...but it was Ohio State who went to the playoff.

Penn State had 2 losses...the Buckeyes only one..so the Buckeyes represented.

 

[Irishfan]

Penn State was the Big 10 Champ, beat Ohio State head to head...but it was Ohio State who went to the playoff.

Penn State had 2 losses...the Buckeyes only one..so the Buckeyes represented.

And Ohio State didn’t have the 13th data point, so would that go as proof that the 13th data point isn’t really important?

 

[bobbyinaz]

It's very likely that if either Michigan or OSU runs the table they will be in along with Bama & Clemson.

If ND does lose a game they are still likely in. The only team with a chance to steal that spot would be if Texas wins out

 

[champs99and04]

I was expecting to see an undefeated UCF team in the Final 4 last year.

Were you actually, though? I wasn't. In fact, low expectations are probably the best defense against disappointment when it comes to college football. Scam or no scam, I'm just happy the BCS is gone and we can at least talk about four teams now.

It does suck to leave a team like UCF out. I think any reasonable person believes that they deserved a shot, whether that was at four teams, eight, or something else. Moving forward, you could probably solve some of those problems by creating a rule where the Georgia and Michigan's of the world have to travel outside the P5 to play a game every couple years. As things currently stand, the biggest challenges a school like UCF faces is that they're not prestigious enough to get a series with a big boy, meaning they have to schedule mediocre Big Ten programs like Illinois and then face the consequences when their OOC SOS sucks.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Notre Dame's status is still untested. Clearly ND has a "preferred status" to every G5 team and is a "playoff selectable" team based on its current ranking (#3). However, ND is one of only 4 undefeated teams so we aren't comparing apples to apples.

The better questions is how to does ND rank against a P5 conference champion with the same win/loss record? ND is ranked so high right now because they are undefeated and a number of traditional P5 playoff selectable teams have lost a game (OSU, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc...)

The test will be what happens if ND loses a game? Would a one loss ND be selected over a one loss Big10 champion? What about a one loss ND versus one loss Big 12 champion? Or is it all team dependant? For example, would a one loss Big 12 champion Oklahoma get a playoff spot over a 1 loss ND but a one loss ND selected over a one loss Big12 champion WVU?

Bottom line - every UConn fan should be cheering for ND football to lose a game. What UConn needs is for a one loss ND to get passed over for playoff selection for a couple of one loss P5 champions. The only way ND ever joins a conference is if they believe their independant status hurts their ability to win a championship. Oh, and if ND decides to join a conference, it may start a new shuffle.

This is all fine and dandy conversation for committees and seeding and all that, but it's really just total BS. Notre Dame is always going to get the nod because of money. Specifically TV money.

Until they are squeezed out of independance, there will be no true conference champion playoff format for a national championship at the highest level of college football. That means as long as they hold on to their individualized TV contract - this is all BS to fill the time.

 

[billybud]

I do believe that UCF might have had some culpability in their weak OOC scheduling..

If USF can play Wisconsin, GT, BYU, and Texas the next two years...?

UCF, however, does play Stanford, Pitt, UNC, Georgia Tech the next two years...

 

[billybud]

This is all fine and dandy conversation for committees and seeding and all that, but it's really just total BS. Notre Dame is always going to get the nod because of money. Specifically TV money.

Until they are squeezed out of independance, there will be no true conference champion playoff format for a national championship at the highest level of college football. That means as long as they hold on to their individualized TV contract - this is all BS to fill the time.

Notre Dame hasn't been a regular presence in the BCS Championships or CFP other than their 2012 appearance, getting waxed by Bama.

They usually aren't relevant to the NC game.

 

[dwalks93]

Until they are squeezed out of independance, there will be no true conference champion playoff format for a national championship at the highest level of college football.

Based on the first rankings we now have a little more data by which to evaluate ND's status. Basically ND was behind a one loss LSU....translation, a big name, premier SEC team with a loss still trumps an undefeated ND.

ND controls its own fate if they win out. But if they lose a game then they are very likely out. For teams like Bama, LSU, Ohio State, Clemson, Michigan and Oklahoma a loss can be overcome to get to the playoff. ND has no such safety net....bottom line, ND will be evaluated above all G5 teams and most P5 programs but will not get special treatment like the premier P5 programs.

I do agree conference realignment still depends on ND. As UConn fans we need ND to a lose a game this year and get replaced by a couple of one loss P5 heavy weights. The real punch in the face for ND would be to have a one loss Michigan go to the playoffs ahead of a one loss ND when they beat Michigan in a head to head match.

Only when ND realizes they are at a competitive disadvantage will they consider joining a conference. Personally I think ND already is...they just don't know it yet.

 

[TerryD]

Based on the first rankings we now have a little more data by which to evaluate ND's status. Basically ND was behind a one loss LSU....translation, a big name, premier SEC team with a loss still trumps an undefeated ND.

ND controls its own fate if they win out. But if they lose a game then they are very likely out. For teams like Bama, LSU, Ohio State, Clemson, Michigan and Oklahoma a loss can be overcome to get to the playoff. ND has no such safety net....bottom line, ND will be evaluated above all G5 teams and most P5 programs but will not get special treatment like the premier P5 programs.

I do agree conference realignment still depends on ND. As UConn fans we need ND to a lose a game this year and get replaced by a couple of one loss P5 heavy weights. The real punch in the face for ND would be to have a one loss Michigan go to the playoffs ahead of a one loss ND when they beat Michigan in a head to head match.

Only when ND realizes they are at a competitive disadvantage will they consider joining a conference. Personally I think ND already is...they just don't know it yet.

It knows it, understands it and accepts it. But, it will not give up its independent football status because of it. As long as it legally can compete for the playoffs, even if the path is harder, it will keep the status quo.

Jack Swarbrick was interviewed in August and said this:

"The reason why Notre Dame has the flexibility to schedule such marquee matchups every year is because of its independent status.

Swarbrick doesn’t see the Irish joining a conference any time soon, even if it would make a path to the College Football Playoff easier.

“We don’t choose independence because it helps the football program,” Swarbrick said. “We would have a potentially easier path to a championship in the current model if we were in a conference.

We choose independence because of its benefit for the University and what football represents. It’s our ability to play in New York and California … the ACC lets us travel from Miami to Boston, we’ll play in iconic venues like Lambeau Field — that’s what we need to do.

Don’t get me wrong, our focus has to be winning football games and competing for national championships, but we have this secondary obligation with the program to use it as a vehicle to promote the school, and we look for every opportunity to do that."

Swarbrick comments on the football program and its future // The Observer

This isn't really even an exclusively football related decision. It includes non-football, school marketing factors. ND believes that its independent football status helps to market the school nation wide.

Unless/until a P4 champs only playoff mandates a conference champion to be a playoff team, ND likely ain't budging.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It knows it, understands it and accepts it. But, it will not give up its independent football status because of it. As long as it legally can compete for the playoffs, even if the path is harder, it will keep the status quo.

Jack Swarbrick was interviewed in August and said this:

"The reason why Notre Dame has the flexibility to schedule such marquee matchups every year is because of its independent status.

Swarbrick doesn’t see the Irish joining a conference any time soon, even if it would make a path to the College Football Playoff easier.

“We don’t choose independence because it helps the football program,” Swarbrick said. “We would have a potentially easier path to a championship in the current model if we were in a conference.

We choose independence because of its benefit for the University and what football represents. It’s our ability to play in New York and California … the ACC lets us travel from Miami to Boston, we’ll play in iconic venues like Lambeau Field — that’s what we need to do.

Don’t get me wrong, our focus has to be winning football games and competing for national championships, but we have this secondary obligation with the program to use it as a vehicle to promote the school, and we look for every opportunity to do that."

Swarbrick comments on the football program and its future // The Observer

This isn't really even an exclusively football related decision. It includes non-football, school marketing factors. ND believes that its independent football status helps to market the school nation wide.

Unless/until a P4 champs only playoff mandates a conference champion to be a playoff team, ND likely ain't budging.

Swarbick is full of you know what, and so are you.

The reason Notre Dame can maintain independant status is because they hit the jackpot 30 years ago with their exclusive NBC television and media contract. It's entirely about exclusive control of enough benjamins to schedule who they want, when they want, and still get paid.

The rest of this blow harding is nothing but Notre Dame pompousness.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Btw: Regarding pompous blowhardiness, as noted in another thread - the University of Connecticut leadership, the State of Connecticut leadership, and most especially the Connecticut sports media - demonstrated their complete lack of understanding of anything in major intercollegiate athletics nationally - when Notre Dame was proposing and willing to schedule what I think was a 10-12 year series with UConn about a decade ago now.

But hey, we got women's basketball.

 

[Exit 4]

Am I the only one that hasn’t read a post from TerryD in years because there is no need, he just repeats himself? North Korea net minders would be impressed with your persistence, Russian trolls too.

Big game coming up in NYC this month; a ranked Syracuse team vs a top 5 ND team at yankee stadium. I looked into tickets last weekend, secondary market prices were very impressive, 150 for the worst seats, many seats priced in the 200 to 300 range. If both teams continue to win could College Game Day visit the Bronx? I think so. A November football game between two ranked opponents northeast of Penn St is rare.

Anyway - I was talking to my Syracuse friend (client) and he was all on board that we need ND to lose a game this year and continue to get shut out of the play offs. It’s the only chance we have to push ND to the ACC full time and that it is one of the few ways to trigger more CRA.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Am I the only one that hasn’t read a post from TerryD in years because there is no need, he just repeats himself? North Korea net minders would be impressed with your persistence, Russian trolls too.

Big game coming up in NYC this month; a ranked Syracuse team vs a top 5 ND team at yankee stadium. I looked into tickets last weekend, secondary market prices were very impressive, 150 for the worst seats, many seats priced in the 200 to 300 range. If both teams continue to win could College Game Day visit the Bronx? I think so. A November football game between two ranked opponents northeast of Penn St is rare.

Anyway - I was talking to my Syracuse friend (client) and he was all on board that we need ND to lose a game this year and continue to get shut out of the play offs. It’s the only chance we have to push ND to the ACC full time and that it is one of the few ways to trigger more CRA.

Pipe dreams.

Only way to squeeze Notre Dame, (other than the progression to a true national championship playoff of conference champions rather than this current abomination format for a national title - is to keep their non-football sports out of a conference. ACC already bent over and spread wide for them.

 

[Exit 4]

Pipe dreams.

Only way to squeeze Notre Dame, (other than the progression to a true national championship playoff of conference champions rather than this current abomination format for a national title - is to keep their non-football sports out of a conference. ACC already bent over and spread wide for them.

Pipe Dreams? But then you seem to go on to agree with your incomplete parenthetical. Anyway

 

[Carl Spackler]

Pipe Dreams? But then you seem to go on to agree with your incomplete parenthetical. Anyway

I tend to make people confused. But you'll figure it out.

Bottom line is that 1A college football postseason and national championship system right now - the abomination it is - has no incentive to change because it's functioning exactly as it's designed and intended to do, to benefit those it benefits, including Notre Dame.

There is very, very little leverage to be generated to get anything moving to change.

My prediction, is that in about 8-10 years (maybe sooner) the viewership and interest will have declined so much, that the media contracts will be unsustainable - and then at that point, something meaningful might happen to actually complete the process of transitioning the historic bowl system of a college football post season - to a national championship playoff format of conference champions that exists at every other level of college football below 1A and in every other intercollegiate sport.

 

[Exit 4]

I tend to make people confused. But you'll figure it out.

Bottom line is that 1A college football postseason and national championship system right now - the abomination it is - has no incentive to change because it's functioning exactly as it's designed and intended to do, to benefit those it benefits, including Notre Dame.

There is very, very little leverage to be generated to get anything moving to change.

My prediction, is that in about 8-10 years (maybe sooner) the viewership and interest will have declined so much, that the media contracts will be unsustainable - and then at that point, something meaningful might happen to actually complete the process of transitioning the historic bowl system of a college football post season - to a national championship playoff format of conference champions that exists at every other level of college football below 1A and in every other intercollegiate sport.

Pipe dreams

 

[TerryD]

Swarbick is full of you know what, and so are you.

The reason Notre Dame can maintain independant status is because they hit the jackpot 30 years ago with their exclusive NBC television and media contract. It's entirely about exclusive control of enough benjamins to schedule who they want, when they want, and still get paid.

The rest of this blow harding is nothing but Notre Dame pompousness.

ND would make way more TV money by joining the Big Ten. It would likely make as more, or probably more, if football fully joined the ACC.

It isn't about the most TV money, though.

 

[TerryD]

Am I the only one that hasn’t read a post from TerryD in years because there is no need, he just repeats himself? North Korea net minders would be impressed with your persistence, Russian trolls too.

Big game coming up in NYC this month; a ranked Syracuse team vs a top 5 ND team at yankee stadium. I looked into tickets last weekend, secondary market prices were very impressive, 150 for the worst seats, many seats priced in the 200 to 300 range. If both teams continue to win could College Game Day visit the Bronx? I think so. A November football game between two ranked opponents northeast of Penn St is rare.

Anyway - I was talking to my Syracuse friend (client) and he was all on board that we need ND to lose a game this year and continue to get shut out of the play offs. It’s the only chance we have to push ND to the ACC full time and that it is one of the few ways to trigger more CRA.

I just provided quotes from the ND athletic director to counter the silly notion that ND doesn't know the playoffs are harder to make as a football independent.

You guys don't like the message. I get it.

 

[Irishfan]

Notre Dame hasn't been a regular presence in the BCS Championships or CFP other than their 2012 appearance, getting waxed by Bama.

They usually aren't relevant to the NC game.

Yet here we are talking about them.