OT: That'll teach you Ohio State

[DefCONNOne]

Top to bottom, the ACC Conference was the best college football conference in America this season, imo.

I see you received your ACC talking points in the mail last week. Also, why are you here? No one mentioned BC.

 

[Redding Husky]

Schadenfruede for those of us with family who graduated from The University of Ohio in Athens.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Your plan is never going to happen though

With a Penn State loss (high probablity) and a Wisconsin loss (perhaps), the Big 10 would end up 2-7 in bowls. Yeah, my plan could nevet have merit because we need 9 teams from the BiG10 playing poorly. How about giving access to the whole country.

 

[FartMan69]

This game just confirms what people already knew — that the committee invites teams based on brand longevity, not actual merit or résumé that season. The playoff is just an invitational for the football blue bloods.

That's been the case since forever. There really might as well just be 10 teams in D 1 at this point

 

[Dooley]

This game just confirms what people already knew — that the committee invites teams based on brand longevity, not actual merit or résumé that season. The playoff is just an invitational for the football blue bloods.

1000% agree. The same blue bloods are ranked the highest in preseason polls, never drop too far after they lose, and get back into the top 10 range by season's end...no matter how poorly or uninspired they play. The CFP is nothing more than a popularity contest and a TV ratings wh0re.

It's really not hard. Toss out rankings and polls that are nothing more than popularity contests. Expand to 8 teams. 8 playoff teams are as follows:

- SEC Champ Game winner
- B10 Champ Game winner
- PAC Champ Game winner
- ACC Champ Game winner
- B12 Champ Game winner
- G5 winner (more often than not will be AAC Champ Game winner) with highest winning percentage and SOS/RPI (in case of winning % tie)
- at-large*
- at-large*

* Based on highest winning percentage, including conference championship games, and SOS/RPI-esque calculations to be used as win percentage tiebreakers. Minimum 83% winning percentage. 11 win teams that lose in a Champ Game would get in over a 10 win team who does not play in a Champ Game. 10 win teams who play in a Champ Game will get a boost from playing another good opponent but would not necessarily be automatic, depending on SOS/RPI.

Seeding determined by same winning percentage and SOS/RPI formulas. Higher seed hosts playoff game at home stadium. Championship Game played on neutral field.

Done and dusted.

This will never happen because the "old money" club has no interest in changing the tried-and-true method of ensuring that the same 10-20 or so teams win the championship every year.

 

[tzznandrew]

Not saying I 100% agree with the guy but he does do a good job of bringing up contrarian points

I think there's less argument if there's a clear rubric. In this scenario, 5 have nothing to do with rankings: P5 winners. One spot is reserved for the highest ranked G5 school. @Dooley 's idea can work, but I'm perfectly okay with subjectivity and having a committee. Next highest ranking teams go in. Committee seeds the teams. Then, too, there's a clear advantage to be the 1 seed (you get the lowest ranking team), and really the committee is selecting really only 2 teams (beyond the highest ranking G5 team, which most years will not be drawn from the same pool as the others).

In this scenario, to take Cowherd's point, you aren't comparing USC to Oklahoma State. No. Almost never are the P5 schools 1-5 in the rankings. Instead, this year, you'd have gotten #3 (OSU) and #6 (Michigan). Their regular season was clearly a cut above the next group (Wisconsin, USC, Colorado, Florida State). There might be some debate, but it would be very little.

The whole idea (not necessarily yours, @Rocktheworld ) that expanding the playoffs devalues the regular season is crazy to me, also, since you'd either have to win your conference, or have had a really really good season (1-2 losses) to get in. Many people thought USC was one of the best teams by the end of the season, but they're still out...yet this still rewards team growth, as well as allows teams to overcome fluke losses--or injuries--easier. Also, it instantly gives every single team a chance to win the title, which they clearly don't now (see WMU).

 

[weyuo]

I just hope Bama and Clemson can absorb the recruiting hit that comes when recruits find out both schools are defense-first and their offense barely gets to 30 points.

LOL I don't think Bama has to worry about a recruiting hit. Not for a while anyways.

 

[junglehusky]

LOL I don't think Bama has to worry about a recruiting hit. Not for a while anyways.

whoosh

 

[junglehusky]

Urban Meyer: "I can't imagine a worse performance on a bigger stage."

Mariah Carey: "Watch this."

Aw Jimmy. You missed the perfect opportunity to use "Hold My Beer".

 

[Uconnalliance]

What a complete dumpster fire this game was for Urban....almost looked like Shady called Diaco for game planning advice.

Lmmfao!!!! That's classic!!!!!

 

[sub legacy]

1000% agree. The same blue bloods are ranked the highest in preseason polls, never drop too far after they lose, and get back into the top 10 range by season's end...no matter how poorly or uninspired they play. The CFP is nothing more than a popularity contest and a TV ratings wh0re.

It's really not hard. Toss out rankings and polls that are nothing more than popularity contests. Expand to 8 teams. 8 playoff teams are as follows:

- SEC Champ Game winner
- B10 Champ Game winner
- PAC Champ Game winner
- ACC Champ Game winner
- B12 Champ Game winner
- G5 winner (more often than not will be AAC Champ Game winner) with highest winning percentage and SOS/RPI (in case of winning % tie)
- at-large*
- at-large*

* Based on highest winning percentage, including conference championship games, and SOS/RPI-esque calculations to be used as win percentage tiebreakers. Minimum 83% winning percentage. 11 win teams that lose in a Champ Game would get in over a 10 win team who does not play in a Champ Game. 10 win teams who play in a Champ Game will get a boost from playing another good opponent but would not necessarily be automatic, depending on SOS/RPI.

Seeding determined by same winning percentage and SOS/RPI formulas. Higher seed hosts playoff game at home stadium. Championship Game played on neutral field.

Done and dusted.

This will never happen because the "old money" club has no interest in changing the tried-and-true method of ensuring that the same 10-20 or so teams win the championship every year.

Completely agree. This thing obviously wasn't designed with parity in mind, and ultimately only panders to four out of a dozen elite teams by seasons-end. Like you mentioned, analysts and especially committee members are far more forgiving about losses with elite programs ("strength of schedule" -- yadda yadda). It's no wonder the idea of expanding to eight is typically dismissed by pencil necks like Finebaum or SEC alumni. They could expand to eight teams and still maintain the allure of "exclusivity." That wouldn't be diminished just by leaving enough room for a few smaller schools to get in and present them the opportunity to compete. They make expanding to eight seem like it's a bigger compromise than it actually is. Expanding to 16 would be overkill — 8 would be perfect.

The current CFP system is an improvement, but bound to eventually run into the same predictability problems the BCS system had; in other words the same few teams competing for National Championships every year. Elite teams are given way more opportunity and leeway to fail or stumble while one loss teams for "lesser" conferences are utterly dismissed while having to walk a tight rope just to have a remote chance at a bid.

 

[freescooter]

It isn't totally comparable but when the Atlantic Hockey Assn got an autobid to the NCAA Tourney there was all sorts of hootin' and hollerin' about how a deserving school was left out. And then in its 3rd year in the 16th seed Holy Cross knocked off averall #1 Minnesota and 3. years after that #16 RIT also from AHA knocked off a couple of highly ranked opponents to get to the Frozen Four. And now you don't hear how unworthy AHA is any more. In fact the got 2 bids a few years ago. I suspect Houston or Temple or USF would likely give anyone a game.

 

[RioDog]

1000% agree. The same blue bloods are ranked the highest in preseason polls, never drop too far after they lose, and get back into the top 10 range by season's end...no matter how poorly or uninspired they play. The CFP is nothing more than a popularity contest and a TV ratings wh0re.

It's really not hard. Toss out rankings and polls that are nothing more than popularity contests. Expand to 8 teams. 8 playoff teams are as follows:

- SEC Champ Game winner
- B10 Champ Game winner
- PAC Champ Game winner
- ACC Champ Game winner
- B12 Champ Game winner
- G5 winner (more often than not will be AAC Champ Game winner) with highest winning percentage and SOS/RPI (in case of winning % tie)
- at-large*
- at-large*

* Based on highest winning percentage, including conference championship games, and SOS/RPI-esque calculations to be used as win percentage tiebreakers. Minimum 83% winning percentage. 11 win teams that lose in a Champ Game would get in over a 10 win team who does not play in a Champ Game. 10 win teams who play in a Champ Game will get a boost from playing another good opponent but would not necessarily be automatic, depending on SOS/RPI.

Seeding determined by same winning percentage and SOS/RPI formulas. Higher seed hosts playoff game at home stadium. Championship Game played on neutral field.

Done and dusted.

This will never happen because the "old money" club has no interest in changing the tried-and-true method of ensuring that the same 10-20 or so teams win the championship every year.

I like it, but would make 1 change. Acknowledge that the MWC and AAC are the best of the G5 and have their regular season champs play in an "inter-conference" G5 championship game. No need to fuss with winining %/SOS etc... The few serious programs remaining could replace the current bottom dwellers of the MWC/AAC. This in effect would make the MWC/AAC alliance the 6th P conference.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

I enjoy seeing Ohio State getting crushed as much as the next guy, but it almost sounds like you are blaming them for being in the game. Penn State probably would have been annihilated as well, hell most teams would have been by Clemson yesterday. I do tend to believe that if you don't win your league, then you shouldn't be in a four team playoff, but the cure for that is to go to 8. P5 champs get in and then 3 at large bids for the best of the rest. Sure number 9 will complain, but that's just how it goes.

Penn State might have been annihilated, but they were the Big 10 Champs, they beat OSU. It was Penn States slot, not the TV execs, Urban State University. As for Clemson, how do you know for sure they would have annihilated "most teams"? They didn't even play the best team in a weak Big Ten.

 

[tzznandrew]

Penn State might have been annihilated, but they were the Big 10 Champs, they beat OSU. It was Penn States slot, not the TV execs, Urban State University. As for Clemson, how do you know for sure they would have annihilated "most teams"? They didn't even play the best team in a weak Big Ten.

The B10 wasn't considered weak this year. Nor did their OOC suggest they were. Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and Wisconsin all ended the year in the Top 10, and you should be careful about drawing too many conclusions from the meaningless bowl games.

That said, while I understand to some extent why Ohio State got in instead of Penn State (1 fewer loss, albeit to Penn State, better OOC, etc.), it points to a system that still needs changes. The best team doesn't always win the conference, but the team that does win it should get some reward above and beyond those who didn't.

I mean, it's not as bad as the year we got LSU-Alabama (where Alabama got an extra week off while LSU had to beat a 10-win Georgia team in ATL), but it is patently unreasonable to pretend conference titles mean something and then select Ohio State over Penn State. Put the conference champs in and go from there.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

The B10 wasn't considered weak this year. Nor did their OOC suggest they were. Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and Wisconsin all ended the year in the Top 10, and you should be careful about drawing too many conclusions from the meaningless bowl games.

That said, while I understand to some extent why Ohio State got in instead of Penn State (1 fewer loss, albeit to Penn State, better OOC, etc.), it points to a system that still needs changes. The best team doesn't always win the conference, but the team that does win it should get some reward above and beyond those who didn't.

I mean, it's not as bad as the year we got LSU-Alabama (where Alabama got an extra week off while LSU had to beat a 10-win Georgia team in ATL), but it is patently unreasonable to pretend conference titles mean something and then select Ohio State over Penn State. Put the conference champs in and go from there.

The meaningless bowl games were meaningless to the teams that won. The Big 10 is usually overrated. As for being in Top 10, that is way to political too.

 

[traitor71]

Penn State might have been annihilated, but they were the Big 10 Champs, they beat OSU. It was Penn States slot, not the TV execs, Urban State University. As for Clemson, how do you know for sure they would have annihilated "most teams"? They didn't even play the best team in a weak Big Ten.

Why was it Penn State's slot? There isn't any rule that awards a playoff spot to a conference champion. When there is, you can grumble. Until then, don't lose two games and leave it to chance. As for Clemson and what I "know", I don't know anything besides the fact that they played for the title last year and they look to be playing their best football right now.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Why was it Penn State's slot? There isn't any rule that awards a playoff spot to a conference champion. When there is, you can grumble. Until then, don't lose two games and leave it to chance. As for Clemson and what I "know", I don't know anything besides the fact that they played for the title last year and they look to be playing their best football right now.

So TV execs need for brand name teams should have priority over on field results. So with that reasoning lets just pencil in a Yankees v Dodgers World Series, a Celtics v Lakers NBA Finals and a Dallas v Pittsburgh SuperBowl. No need to earn it in the field.

 

[Dooley]

I like it, but would make 1 change. Acknowledge that the MWC and AAC are the best of the G5 and have their regular season champs play in an "inter-conference" G5 championship game. No need to fuss with winining %/SOS etc... The few serious programs remaining could replace the current bottom dwellers of the MWC/AAC. This in effect would make the MWC/AAC alliance the 6th P conference.

I agree - AAC and MWC are clearly the class of the G5. I didn't give an auto-bid though because that means the P5 would have to acknowledge the AAC/MWC as comparable conferences and that would probably lead to having to share some of their revenue.

 

[gtcam]

It isn't totally comparable but when the Atlantic Hockey Assn got an autobid to the NCAA Tourney there was all sorts of hootin' and hollerin' about how a deserving school was left out. And then in its 3rd year in the 16th seed Holy Cross knocked off averall #1 Minnesota and 3. years after that #16 RIT also from AHA knocked off a couple of highly ranked opponents to get to the Frozen Four. And now you don't hear how unworthy AHA is any more. In fact the got 2 bids a few years ago. I suspect Houston or Temple or USF would likely give anyone a game.

I totally agree with your hockey analysis and comparative
BUT I don't think that Houston (late season version) or Temple would play with Bama, Clemson, Ohio St, USC etc but I think that USF's offensive game could compete at the highest levels but the D - not so sure I do think that the early season Houston was a scary team

 

[dwalks93]

Breaking news....money drives college sports, particularly football. OSU will always have a playoff selection advantage over anyone in the Big10 not named Michigan. However, every Big10 school will trump every school in the AAC. Doesn't make it right but it should not be surprising. Always follow the money.

My issue is less about the predicable outcome (OSU jumps PSU for the playoff) and more about the dishonest justifications by the controllers. OSU got in because they are the Big10's premiere program with a ravenous fans base. The Clemsons and Bamas (and their fans) want to play OSU more than PSU. Even when OSU gets crushed it excites the fans.

It kind of reminds me of the conference realignment arguments. In the past I've heard the importance of winning the regular season conference title and later, winning a conference championship game. Obviously it is important unless it does not get the results the selection committee wants and then its "OSU has the best OOC schedule and better passes the eye test"....how many times as UConn fans did we hear about the need to be an academic fit and well rounded athletic program for conference realignment only to be black balled by less successful Big East programs and beaten out by an academically challenged, prostitution enhanced, community college?

Sadly this is why the playoff will probably never get expanded and, if it does get expanded, the G5 won't get a spot. OSU and Bama don't want more playoff access for other P5 programs and the weaker P5 programs like BC and Cuse need their potential P5 playoff access to maintain superiority over the G5....

Allowing the G5 access to the playoff limits the P5's competitive and financial advantage so it will never happen. The playoffs is not meant to be a "fair system"...it is meant to make money for the elite P5 football programs.