OT- Stick a fork in Goodell

[Horatio]

For whatever reason, public figures are held to a different standard in terms of privacy. First of all, they have a much higher level of exposure and because of this, the public is generally more interested (disregarding compensation for a moment.).

What if Sports Illustrated broke the tape? Or Yahoo Sports? Or the Baltimore Sun? TMZ serves the same purpose in the non-sports, non-news entertainment industry akin to US Weekly, Entertainment Weekly, People, etc. Though I think TMZ is generally despicable, I don't have a problem with their role in the Ray Rice episode. TMZ did one thing for sure. They brought domestic violence out of the back page of the police logs and into the public consciousness. One can only hope that it doesn't end up like the banking scandal were the biggest perpetrators are not held accountable for their actions.

All good points. Yeah, if it were Sports Illustrated or some other "Sports" news source , I would feel differently about It.

 

[intlzncster]

Yeah... you do realize that's none of your business, none of my business and none of TMZ's business, right ? TMZ and their ilk are one of THE lowest forms of human life on the planet. Absolute bottom feeders who deserve no respect whatsoever.

Actually yes, domestic violence is all of our business. As is murder. The only way to curb or eradicate the problem is through awareness and outrage.

 

[intlzncster]

All good points. Yeah, if it were Sports Illustrated or some other "Sports" news source , I would feel differently about It.

Not to lecture you here, as this is important for all of us, but I think it's important that we don't lose sight of the real issue here (domestic violence) in lieu of a general distaste (disgust for some) of an outlet like TMZ.

 

[Walker11]

A lot of people are rightfully outraged but I think a lot of people simply like to see powerful people fall. I read somewhere that the most popular fantasy football team name this year is Beats by Ray and this is certainly not scientific but a lot of people don't seem to take this seriously.

 

[Husky25]

Actually yes, domestic violence is all of our business. As is murder. The only way to curb or eradicate the problem is through awareness and outrage.

I saw something on Twitter on Monday to the effect of, "Oh don't worry. The NFL really does care about women. They are 3 weeks from wearing pink towels, gloves, and cleats for a month."

 

[Rocktheworld]

He reminds me of Emmert and not in a good way.

Is there any good way to evoke comparison to Emmert?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Strummer, some of your posts are funny and on point. This one however is not. If you are serious about this, which you may not be, you are just plain wrong. No matter how much he was provoked, he should have walked away. It takes a bigger man to walk away. It is never acceptable to smack your spouse, girlfriend or lover, you can always walk away. Is it easy to do? No, but its the right thing to do. You should be teaching your daughters if they are ever abused physically, verbally or emotionally to get out and seek help. In our 21 years of marriage we have never slapped each other. Have we argued and yelled at each other? Yes, and we've been mighty pi ss ed off at times. We just KNOW it's wrong and it changes everything. By your logic if you get slapped you can slap back, if you get punched you can punch back. At what point is it not okay?At what point do you say this relationship is broken. Clearly they both need help, but when they start feeling that it's ok to be physical like we saw in the video and he thinks it's ok to ko her, you know it is far from healthy and can't be condoned.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ine-physical-abuse-in-relationships-slap-push

I know that coming in here to defend Strummer isn't going to be a popular move, but it doesn't seem to me that he was saying that Rice was justified in punching her in the face and knocking her out. That's criminal behavior no matter what happens (unless it's self-defense, which this very clearly wasn't), and in a just world, he'd be in jail right now. I think we can all agree on that.

The point is that she, like he, is also responsible for her behavior. They both lost their tempers and got physical, which is never OK for anyone to do. He is a 220lb professional athlete, so obviously he's a lot more dangerous than she is, but that doesn't mean that she wasn't trying to hurt him, and that she wasn't wrong for trying to do so.

Additionally, I have to wonder if not taking female-on-male assault seriously may be a factor in these kinds of things. Again, what Rice did was inexcusable, and again, I think he should be in jail for it. But let's say that when she started hitting him, he'd walked away, called the police, and filed a complaint. Do we think it would have been taken seriously? When Chuck Finley's wife assaulted him and the police were called, the media's response was to mock and emasculate him. We need to, as a society, teach men that it's always OK to walk away from any sort of confrontation, and that it doesn't make you less of a man.

Getting personal for a bit here, but I used to be in a relationship with a girl who was bipolar, and from time to time, she would get really angry and try to hurt me, physically, throwing things, punching, pulling hair, etc. Now, she was a very petite girl, and I never felt that I was in danger, but that doesn't make it feel good when your girlfriend is wailing on you. And I never reported any of it because I felt like I was expected to just take it, because I was the man and she was a woman.

Now, of course, what Ray Rice did (punching a woman so hard that she was knocked unconscious) was so far beyond the pale that it can't possibly be justified, and the way she was hitting him was not remotely comparable. But let's say he had just slapped her across the face a couple of times - would that have been justified? Would that have been ok? She's not going to the hospital for a couple of slaps, but it's still wrong to hit a woman - or any person - even if it's "not that hard." So in that vein, I think we do need to take her behavior seriously, and admit that women should be held accountable for hitting men (and, again, I'm going to reiterate here that this accountability would not be in the form of violence, but rather in involving the authorities and having those authorities take it seriously), and if, in the future, a story comes out that a man, professional athlete or otherwise, was being hit by a woman, we treat him like a victim, not like a joke.

And just as an addendum - I want to be very clear about this, so I'm repeating it again: I'm not defending Ray Rice. There is nary a doubt in my mind that he's a dangerous, violent criminal, and he belongs in jail. He's lucky she was only knocked unconscious, as he could have killed her hitting her like that. Even if it were appropriate to hit someone back because they hit you, which it isn't (excluding self-defense, which again, this was clearly not, as he very clearly was never in any danger), punching her so hard that she's knocked unconscious is so far out of the realm of reasonable or acceptable behavior that it is completely unjustifiable.

 

[Waquoit]

I understand that women can be the aggressor. But that's not what happened here. And I find the way that Strummer casually dismissed the spitting in the face to be disingenous. Especially the second spit. Who lets that go?

 

[uconnell]

All good points. Yeah, if it were Sports Illustrated or some other "Sports" news source , I would feel differently about It.

I really hope you were being sarcastic in your reply. It needed to be released for viewing, it doesn't matter to me who released it.

 

[Leebo]

Strummer's whole point is that she deserved to be punched. Nothing he said makes sense if that's not the point he was making.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I understand that women can be the aggressor. But that's not what happened here. And I find the way that Strummer casually dismissed the spitting in the face to be disingenous. Especially the second spit. Who lets that go?

I'll be completely honest: I'm not really sure how I feel about this. Spitting in someone's face is an act of physical aggression, to be sure, but is it comparable to striking someone? Is hitting someone who spits on you a reasonable response? I don't think that hitting someone is ever reasonable (again, excluding self-defense), so I think that her choice to hit him was an act of aggression, and I think she was wrong for doing it.

A "who lets that go" mentality is dangerous, because who lets being hit go? We all should, but it's difficult. If my girlfriend right now hit me (she wouldn't, she's great), it would hurt, but I wouldn't be in any danger because I'm a lot bigger than she is. I don't think that I would be justified in hitting her back, even if I only hit her as hard as she hit me. I would leave her, and I might consider calling the police, but if I lost my temper and got violent, I'd never forgive myself.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Strummer's whole point is that she deserved to be punched. Nothing he said makes sense if that's not the point he was making.

No, his point was that she deserved to be arrested, or at least that's how I read it.

 

[Leebo]

No, his point was that she deserved to be arrested, or at least that's how I read it.

He went out of his way to say that he tells his daughters that they'll get hit as hard as they hit their partners. Basically, he's saying she took what she dealt, in his view.

There's no reason to say that if he thinks she didn't deserve to get hit.

 

[CallMeBruce]

He went out of his way to say that he tells his daughters that they'll get hit as hard as they hit their partners. Basically, he's saying she took what she dealt, in his view.

There's no reason to say that if he thinks she didn't deserve to get hit.

OK, that's fair. I misread that part, and I disagree with it. But I agreed with his point that a woman who assaults a man should be treated equally under the law.

 

[Leebo]

OK, that's fair. I misread that part, and I disagree with it. But I agreed with his point that a woman who assaults a man should be treated equally under the law.

Sure, no one would argue that women shouldn't be punished for attacking men.

Unfortunately, Strummer has managed to watch that video and determined that it's her fault she got punched.

 

[superjohn]

I know that coming in here to defend Strummer isn't going to be a popular move, but it doesn't seem to me that he was saying that Rice was justified in punching her in the face and knocking her out. That's criminal behavior no matter what happens (unless it's self-defense, which this very clearly wasn't), and in a just world, he'd be in jail right now. I think we can all agree on that.

The point is that she, like he, is also responsible for her behavior. They both lost their tempers and got physical, which is never OK for anyone to do. He is a 220lb professional athlete, so obviously he's a lot more dangerous than she is, but that doesn't mean that she wasn't trying to hurt him, and that she wasn't wrong for trying to do so.

Additionally, I have to wonder if not taking female-on-male assault seriously may be a factor in these kinds of things. Again, what Rice did was inexcusable, and again, I think he should be in jail for it. But let's say that when she started hitting him, he'd walked away, called the police, and filed a complaint. Do we think it would have been taken seriously? When Chuck Finley's wife assaulted him and the police were called, the media's response was to mock and emasculate him. We need to, as a society, teach men that it's always OK to walk away from any sort of confrontation, and that it doesn't make you less of a man.

Getting personal for a bit here, but I used to be in a relationship with a girl who was bipolar, and from time to time, she would get really angry and try to hurt me, physically, throwing things, punching, pulling hair, etc. Now, she was a very petite girl, and I never felt that I was in danger, but that doesn't make it feel good when your girlfriend is wailing on you. And I never reported any of it because I felt like I was expected to just take it, because I was the man and she was a woman.

Now, of course, what Ray Rice did (punching a woman so hard that she was knocked unconscious) was so far beyond the pale that it can't possibly be justified, and the way she was hitting him was not remotely comparable. But let's say he had just slapped her across the face a couple of times - would that have been justified? Would that have been ok? She's not going to the hospital for a couple of slaps, but it's still wrong to hit a woman - or any person - even if it's "not that hard." So in that vein, I think we do need to take her behavior seriously, and admit that women should be held accountable for hitting men (and, again, I'm going to reiterate here that this accountability would not be in the form of violence, but rather in involving the authorities and having those authorities take it seriously), and if, in the future, a story comes out that a man, professional athlete or otherwise, was being hit by a woman, we treat him like a victim, not like a joke.

And just as an addendum - I want to be very clear about this, so I'm repeating it again: I'm not defending Ray Rice. There is nary a doubt in my mind that he's a dangerous, violent criminal, and he belongs in jail. He's lucky she was only knocked unconscious, as he could have killed her hitting her like that. Even if it were appropriate to hit someone back because they hit you, which it isn't (excluding self-defense, which again, this was clearly not, as he very clearly was never in any danger), punching her so hard that she's knocked unconscious is so far out of the realm of reasonable or acceptable behavior that it is completely unjustifiable.

You and Strummer are so full of s__t. If you guys actually watched the video you would realize Ray Rice started the whole incident by spitting in his fiancé's face, she responded by waving her hand near his face, they get in the elevator he spits in her face again and punches her, she rushes towards him and he hits her with a vicious punch that drops her and she hits her head on the railing. You seem like a reasonable person so I'm confused by your interpretation of the video, Strummer is clearly a sick guy as we've seen from his previous post.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I think I've only seen the clip of the punch, rather than the full video, so I was just going on the descriptions I'd read. My understanding of the order of events was that they were arguing, he spit on her, she hit him, he spit on her again, she hit him a few more times, and then he started wailing on her. If he hit her before she hit him, then I apologize for misunderstanding.

 

[Leebo]

The first physical contact is indeed the punch. She does wave her hand at him after being spit at. It's not a slap though.

Even if she had made physical contact there, it would have been lighter than an ear flick.

 

[CallMeBruce]

OK, well then my points aren't really relevant to this situation.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I understand that women can be the aggressor. But that's not what happened here. And I find the way that Strummer casually dismissed the spitting in the face to be disingenous. Especially the second spit. Who lets that go?

Who swung and connected in the parking lot, which crossed the line in to violence territory? Who turned it from a verbal exchange in to a physical one? I am not in any way condoning Rice's reaction to it, or any man knocking a woman out like that, but this partly demonstrates the culture that surrounds us that says a woman can do almost anything they want to a man short of ending his life with impunity. In fact, in most cases, the man receives ridicule for being the recipient of female violence without question. You want to talk about victim blaming? I have seen multiple times a guy just talking to a girl at a bar, her hammered ass flips a at something he must have said, throws her drink, starts whaling on him, and before he can even gather himself and figure out wtf is going on and wtf he did wrong while getting hit, he is the one who is tackled by the bouncers and literally thrown out. There is the automatic assumption that he did something wrong and deserves the violence. And when a man wants to speak up about it, he is laughed down and his manhood is brought in to question.

If I were to walk up to another guy, throw my drink at him, give him a swing, and proceed to get myself knocked out, would you feel any sympathy for me? Sexism and hypocrisy at its most pure: applying different sets of standards to different groups on the basis of some arbitrary thing, in this case, sex. I hope you realize that you are essentially disempowering women by removing the agency from their actions when you strip them of responsibility for said actions. You liken them to children when you do that.

 

[Leebo]

Delusional. I hope we never speak in person if spitting is your idea of "verbal."

 

[Horatio]

I really hope you were being sarcastic in your reply. It needed to be released for viewing, it doesn't matter to me who released it.

No . This is serious stuff. My point is I don't like TMZ and I don't like them involved in sports and they should stick to the scum. The video being released is extremely important for the future prevention of these incidents. It's mixed
Feelings because from what's been said , the Rice's were already going through
The healing process. I posted a couple of times yesterday and stated my feelings .

 

[Rocktheworld]

Delusional. I hope we never speak in person if spitting is your idea of "verbal."

Okay I honestly don't know, do we 100% know that that's what he did? Because it looks just as much like he got in her ear/face and just said something, possibly to piss her off. I imagine she'd have given a bit more than what she did if he actually spat on her; she barely even broke stride. If I got spat on out of nowhere, out of pure shock of being spat on out of nowhere, I'd at least stop for a second and allow it to register. Not to mention his antecedent body language doesn't exactly resemble someone so pissed that they're getting ready to spit on someone, let alone their fiance who they eventually married.

 

[Leebo]

The spitting is based on the audio from people who have seen the original footage, not the TMZ version of someone recording the original on a cell phone. According to that, he spits on her outside the elevator. She waves her hand at him (who wouldn't?) After they get in the elevator, he spits at her again.

 

[Rocktheworld]

The spitting is based on the audio from people who have seen the original footage, not the TMZ version of someone recording the original on a cell phone. According to that, he spits on her outside the elevator. She waves her hand at him (who wouldn't?) After they get in the elevator, he spits at her again.

All the articles I found that quote the AP say that she is the one doing the spitting, where are you getting that the audio said he spat on her?