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OT--Steve Nash to the Lakers, as Knicks Miss Out
- Thread starter husky99
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What else was the Knicks offering besides Shumpert, because the deal they're getting from the Lakers is barely anything. The '13 will be late first round, and with the way the Lakers seem to be able to reinvent themselves and stay afloat it wouldn't be surprising if the '15 will be late as well. Shumpert is coming off a bad injury but if he gets back to where he was and continues to improve he'll probably be better than what they would end up drafting.
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still bitter towards the Heat? lol .... move on my dude
as for the trade. If having Nash means Kobe won't be hovering over the ball as much as he currently does, then its a great addition. i just have a hard time believing Kobe will defer at all and play off the ball at all. he has to have the ball in his hands to be happy. if he would defer just a little and just let the offense flow thru Nash, i'd go as far to say that the Lakers are a legit championship contender. if Kobe continues his normal high volume inefficient ways than Nash won't be the effective player we know him to be, his value will be dimished and the Lakers will probably be around the same or slightly better than they were this year.
even tho i'm a Heat fan, i really would love to see Kobe realize he needs to chill out with the 25 shot games and let Nash run things. i think they would be amazing to watch especially considering how skilled Nash-Gasol combo will be.
as for the trade. If having Nash means Kobe won't be hovering over the ball as much as he currently does, then its a great addition. i just have a hard time believing Kobe will defer at all and play off the ball at all. he has to have the ball in his hands to be happy. if he would defer just a little and just let the offense flow thru Nash, i'd go as far to say that the Lakers are a legit championship contender. if Kobe continues his normal high volume inefficient ways than Nash won't be the effective player we know him to be, his value will be dimished and the Lakers will probably be around the same or slightly better than they were this year.
even tho i'm a Heat fan, i really would love to see Kobe realize he needs to chill out with the 25 shot games and let Nash run things. i think they would be amazing to watch especially considering how skilled Nash-Gasol combo will be.
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I think Kobe will adapt, he now has a HOF pg to defer to. Kobe has nothing left to individually prove, he needs a Nash type player to extend his career. He has matured and should not be a problem, as long as they are winning.
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Don't you mean ANCIENT history? That organization has been run like a joke and until they can go a few seasons without inept management, coaching changes, players coming and going and actually win a playoff series, that's what they will be.
Two titles and multiple players on the top 50? You basically just described the Houston Rockets, so what do those numbers mean?
Two titles and multiple players on the top 50? You basically just described the Houston Rockets, so what do those numbers mean?
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Phoenix also signed Dragic to an offer sheet so it was a good move for them. And LAL has a better chance to win the title than the Knicks do. Still, it blows to miss out on Nash. I'm amazed that half of our fanbase didn't want to make the deal and lose Shumpert.
JaYnYcE
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Hey you can call the owner a joke and I would agree with you. But it's no surprise that players want to play in NY if it's possible. Shaq admitted a little while ago and other players have voiced that they love playing at MSG. The Knicks prior to 2001 were always considered contenders in the early-mid-late 90's. And in regards to Nash to the Lakers, he wanted to be close to his family. I just didn't think the Suns would be stupid enough to trade their franchise's best player in the last 16 years to a conference rival. Nash to NY would have been awesome, but like I said, as long as Miami didn't get him I'm all good.
Hope your boys in Boston can keep Allen or the Clippers get him.
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Hope your boys in Boston can keep Allen or the Clippers get him.
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I think the bizarre interest and loyalty to the Brooklyn Nets says more about the current Knicks and NY cache than anything else. Namely the Knicks aren't winners and their owner is a buffoon, so the Nets are able to attract players despite a crappier roster.
No doubt Nash chose LA over NYK, might say something about Amare too. Kobe + Bynum + Gasol is both more functional and beter than Amare + Carmelo + ___.
No doubt Nash chose LA over NYK, might say something about Amare too. Kobe + Bynum + Gasol is both more functional and beter than Amare + Carmelo + ___.
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You more or less made traitor71's point. I was a big Knicks fan during the Reed/Frazier years, but that's long gone with Dolan, and Thomas' disastrous tenure. With MSG and the New York media, the Knicks should be one of the NBA's premier franchises but Dolan will always meddle with the roster keeping them from reaching their potential.
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JaYnYcE is a Skip Bayless fan. You guys are wasting your time your time arguing with him.
Waquoit
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Let's face it, they were lucky to win that 2nd one. Havlicek's injury made it possible. I think it would be hilarious if Lin was the next to go. Why would he stay? Melo runs the team and he proved he has no use for Lin. It's always better in any profession to go where people want you to succeed.
JaYnYcE
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I agree, ownership is a joke. I disagree with the fact that he believes the organization is a joke considering our history prior to Dolan's tenure. The best thing he did for this franchise to date was hire Donnie Walsh to clean up Thomas' mess. Now that we will have a full, normal training camp and preseason, I'm excited to see what Woodson does with an Olojuwan educated, Olympic tested Front Court this coming fall.
With Linsanity of course!
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With Linsanity of course!
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You aren't seeing my point. This isn't the "pre Dolan" era, if it were then the Knicks would be a more viable option for guys. Something has to happen to change things for the Knicks so that they can be taken seriously as a contender again. A good example would be college football where a team like Alabama or Miami or USC just needs the right guy in charge of things. The Knicks need that right guy to get things going.
Waquoit
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They had the right guy. Dolan forced him out. The next right guy will never arrive as long as he is involved.
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No one who plays in the NBA cares about what the Knicks did in the 1970s. Heck, no one cares about what the Knicks did during the Patrick Ewing era, and that was the 90s.
The Celtics are arguably the most successful franchise in NBA history, yet no one wanted to play for Boston in the early 2000s. Why? Because the team was horrible and the organization was perceived as a joke. That's exactly what happened to the Knicks under Isiah Thomas, and the organization is still recovering from that.
As you said, Walsh did a terrific job cleaning up Thomas' mess. But the Knicks are still very far from championship contention (heck, they're not even contenders to win their own division), which is why Nash is choosing to spend his last few good years in LA instead on New York.
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im glad we didnt get nash. i would rather have Lin right now.
he's not as good, but he will improve given time (remember he's only played in about 30 NBA games), and he will develop chemistry with melo and stat (provided melo will allow such a thing).
im happier with 23 y/o Lin, than 38 y/o nash.
he's not as good, but he will improve given time (remember he's only played in about 30 NBA games), and he will develop chemistry with melo and stat (provided melo will allow such a thing).
im happier with 23 y/o Lin, than 38 y/o nash.
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Watched Phil Jackson on Bryant Gumble's HBO show. He was asked if would be interested in coaching the Knicks. After a bit of circling around the question and some hesitation, he said no because they are a "clumsy" team. Asked what that meant, he said the pieces don't fit together. He said Stoudemire is a very good player, but he has to have the right system to thrive (implying it wasn't NY). And he said the ball can't stop when it reaches Anthony.
JaYnYcE
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I have a lot of respect for Phil Jackson. But he clearly has a problem with Dolan not reaching out to him. It went as far as his girlfriend making it public that he's healthy and wants to coach again after rumors started floating of Dolan wanting to stay away from older coaches with health issues (Larry Brown) For someone who has said he would love to one day coach in NY where he learned from his mentor in Red Holtzman, he certainly went out of his way to publicly criticize the Knicks.
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FfldCntyFan
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Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. With your logic however the Knicks would have won at least the season before if Reed had been healthy and, during that era (Reed, DeBusschere, Bradley, Frazier, Monroe vs Cowens, Silas, Havlicek, Westphall, White) with both teams healthy the Knicks seemed to always find a way to win in the playoffs (until Reed was gone, at far too early an age to injuries).
The reality is that injuries are a part of sports. If you want to claim that one team was limited due to injuries you have to apply this to all teams involved. Unfortunately for Knick fans, in the early to mid 1970's they lost more because of injury than any opponent of theirs.
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Waquoit
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Reed was chronically hurt. Havlicek in those playoffs was a bad break for the C's, they were the better team that entire year. But why am I trying to reason with a Knick fan? They think that DeBusschere deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Hondo.
JaYnYcE
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I don't think you know as much about Kobe as you believe you do.
Kobe doesn't need to have the ball to be happy. He needs to WIN to be happy. Kobe had to shoot so much last year because Gasol isn't aggressive, Bynum is still developing, and nobody else on the roster could create their own shot. But most importantly Mike Brown's idea of offense is give the ball to your best player and let him make things happen. Kobe passes the ball when he trusts his teammates, he's demanded more of his teammates so he's not carrying the load. He had the chance to ball hog in the final game of the regular season to win the scoring title and he decided not to. Kobe wants to win, period. He's not Carmelo. If he's chucking shots, it's because he believes that's their best chance to win. He's not shooting because he just wants to score. His beef with Shaq was about Shaq not being as dedicated to winning (particularly with his off season workouts) as he should have been, it had nothing to do with sharing the ball.
Kobe has an incredibly high basketball IQ. He knows how much Nash's ability to create for others will mask Brown's awful offense, and how much pressure it will take off Kobe. They still need some depth on the bench, but this signing brings the Lakers closer to a return trip to the finals. I'd give them a 50/50 shot.
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i don't think i know anything about Kobe Bryant, i'm not one for opinions and perception. i look at the #'s.
Kobe's usage rate and shots attempted is always near the top of the league so i'm comfortable saying that i believe he demands the ball be in his hands.
when he has been at his best is when others around him have been able to take on more and he's used the ball less. the Shaq years were some of his most efficient years. you can argue that he takes on more of a role because he trusts his teammates less now... thats his choice and thats why they aren't as good. Gasol and Bynum are both very capable teammates which helped him win these recent rings. Bynum doesn't get the ball nearly enough and neither does Gasol... if he's going to use the ball as much as he does, he needs to be more efficient of he's hurting his teams chances of winning. this season he used the ball the most in the league and he was 17th in PER... that's not a winning combination.
so while you and others can say i think i know more.... i don't think i know anything. i just read the actual data instead of being polluted by opinions and perception.
KOBE WANTS TO WIN!!! he's a warrior! the mamba! he's clutch!! he's a champion, born to win! that stuff is all complete bullshit.
him having the ball less and taking a fewer amount of horrible ill advised shots will make his team better. we'll see if he decides to take on that role. i hope he does cause i think they'll be awesome to watch and he'll elevate his game back to a championship level.
Kobe's usage rate and shots attempted is always near the top of the league so i'm comfortable saying that i believe he demands the ball be in his hands.
when he has been at his best is when others around him have been able to take on more and he's used the ball less. the Shaq years were some of his most efficient years. you can argue that he takes on more of a role because he trusts his teammates less now... thats his choice and thats why they aren't as good. Gasol and Bynum are both very capable teammates which helped him win these recent rings. Bynum doesn't get the ball nearly enough and neither does Gasol... if he's going to use the ball as much as he does, he needs to be more efficient of he's hurting his teams chances of winning. this season he used the ball the most in the league and he was 17th in PER... that's not a winning combination.
so while you and others can say i think i know more.... i don't think i know anything. i just read the actual data instead of being polluted by opinions and perception.
KOBE WANTS TO WIN!!! he's a warrior! the mamba! he's clutch!! he's a champion, born to win! that stuff is all complete bullshit.
him having the ball less and taking a fewer amount of horrible ill advised shots will make his team better. we'll see if he decides to take on that role. i hope he does cause i think they'll be awesome to watch and he'll elevate his game back to a championship level.
Sure. The numbers tell you whether he is happy or not with the ball in his hands right?
Kobe just wants to win. Watching games, listening to his interviews, and listening to his current and former teammates and coaches will give you that information. Not a stat sheet.
FfldCntyFan
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Personally I don't but Celt fans who remember those days believed that Jo Jo White deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as Frazier & Monroe.
The reality is that the Knicks and Celts faced off in the playoffs three years in a row and the only time the Celts won a series was when Reed, DeBusschere, Bradley and (backup center) Lucas were all hurt. Claiming that you were the better in '73 because you won a few more regular season games than the defending eastern conference champions while leaving out the injuries that prevented the defending eastern conference champions from winning more games early on is quite disingenuous if your injuries are part of the equation.
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