OT - Solution for the One and Done?? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT - Solution for the One and Done??

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There is no perfect solution.

The owners are supposedly going to push for a 21 year old age limit at the next CBA in two years. Of course they want a free minor league via the NCAA, why wouldn't they? I'm all for it simply from an entertainment perspective, both for the college and pro game. If I was a top HS prospect who was pro-ready I'd be upset but oh well. I'm not concerned about them, I'm concerned about the quality of my entertainment. :D
 
UConNick said:
Nope. baseball is similar to football, but different. If you're drafted out of high school and don't sign, then no one retains your rights and you go to college. But then, they are not eligible to be drafted for 3 years, like football.
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You're right, I read this quickly last night and missed that part, my mistake.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/draftday/rules.jsp

The thing is though, the NBA would rather not draft players out of HS if that player needs a few years, but the risk of passing them up was too great. So the NBA doesn't allow them to be drafted at all. Baseball's model wouldn't fix that.
 
Lefty2one said:
There is no perfect solution.

The owners are supposedly going to push for a 21 year old age limit at the next CBA in two years. Of course they want a free minor league via the NCAA, why wouldn't they? I'm all for it simply from an entertainment perspective, both for the college and pro game. If I was a top HS prospect who was pro-ready I'd be upset but oh well. I'm not concerned about them, I'm concerned about the quality of my entertainment. :D
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This is why there should be a compromise. The NCAA should stop pretending they only care about academics when they schedule 24 straight hours of games on a school day and rake in billions.

The NBA can tell the players association 21 years old, or let us draft and retain rights for 2-3 years with a system like I've outlined.

And the college coaches can stop losing borderline guys to foreign leagues or the d-league where they are less likely to develop.
 
The model is their for both baseball and hockey. They just need to follow it.

Nothing more needs to be done.
 
I don't think the people in charge of deciding see this as a real problem. They get a free minor league and a year against top talent to evaluate the players. Using baseball and hockey as an example doesn't quite work because there isn't as competitive of a college option and players drafted in high school generally won't be in the pros for years (with very established minor league systems to develop them). Apples and oranges on that front.
 
How would a Coach recruit with so much indecision and uncertainty?
 
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WingU-Conn said:
This is why there should be a compromise.
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Should be, but there won't be. The NBA holds all the power and can do whatever they want. The PA will fight it initially but there will be other concessions that are more important and they'll likely use this as a bargaining chip to get something else.
 
Why would the Players Association want to stop the NBA from raising the age minimum? None of the people who would be affected are in the PA, except that fewer of them would lose their jobs the following year.
 
CallMeBruce said:
Why would the Players Association want to stop the NBA from raising the age minimum? None of the people who would be affected are in the PA, except that fewer of them would lose their jobs the following year.
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I had the same initial reaction but apparently they want the opportunity for longer careers (and thus more money) by starting their careers earlier. You come into the league at 18 and turn into an All-Star then you're getting yourself an extra max contract during your career than if you come in at 21.

I will say that if they raise the age limit to 21 then they'll have to increase the rookie salary scale.
 
Kitaman said:
How would a Coach recruit with so much indecision and uncertainty?
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I dunno, they pretty much did this 10 years ago when their top players could be drafted away from them.
 
Why not have a player who leaves early count, at least partially, against a teams APR. This would discourage schools from stockpiling one-and done:s.
 
Kitaman said:
How would a Coach recruit with so much indecision and uncertainty?
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Pretty much the same way they do now. With my suggestion they at least have a fighting chance to keep the kid their once he's there. Instead of declaring for the draft, they declare they are leaving college to start their pro career. Deadline to declare for draft is 4/25, leave that date the same. Undecided seniors will know by then where there are available scholarships. As it is now, there is already uncertainty anyway.
 
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Doheny said:
Why not have a player who leaves early count, at least partially, against a teams APR. This would discourage schools from stockpiling one-and done:s.
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Why punish the school for something the NBA requires? Those guys wouldn't be in college if they didn't have to.
 
This problem was created by the NBA and the Players Association. And relying on them to solve it is like relying on the fox to guard the chickens. If the NCAA wanted to fix it they could, but they don't. But here's 2 simple solutions. Both would fix it in a NY minute.
1. Don't allow freshmen to play. Basically require a redshirt year. The NBA loses its free place to stash players for a season. Players who have no real college interest all go to Europe or the D-league and the NBA is hoist on their own petard.

2.Tie scholarships to the player. Once it is granted it is tied up until his class graduates. This effectively forces coaches to recruit four year players, or at least 3 year players. Even Calipari would change his approach. Imagine if he looked out at 2015-16 and had to face it with 5 scholarship players. And pretty much the same for 16-17 and 17-18, too. Maybe it happens once, but rest assured that he's never again want to lose that many players. That puts pressure on the coaches to recruit guys who plan to stay. You could tinker with the rules so scholarships of kids who transfer in good standing can get "recycled" but otherwise no. In that scenario maybe you take a flyer on 1 kid, and go 3 years down a scholarship, but it won't be a regular practice, that's for sure, because the impact is cumulative up to 4.
 
The problem that the NBA is currently having is that players are being drafted into their league, and being asked to contribute immediately, that simply are not developed enough to compete at the highest level. And, for the record, I think the NBA is a great product. But it could be better, and here is how:

- Maintain the current age limit for draft eligibility. This would save GM's and scouts from high school gymnasiums.

- A player must be three years removed from high school to play in the NBA, and the clock does not start ticking on the rookie contract signed by draftees until they are one year removed from high school (this is somewhat obvious considering the first point).

This would allow much of the current system to remain intact - Karl Anthony Towns and Jahlil Okafor will still shake hands with Adam Silver and begin making money this summer, except, instead of starting their pro careers, they return to school. Late blooming juniors and seniors still unclaimed by NBA franchises will still be draft eligible and immediately ready to compete.

Here is the point I think people miss: because you can play in the NBA does not mean you can make a difference in the NBA. Very, very few players are good enough in the three years following high school to actually shift the balance of power in the league. I also think it's true that players develop faster in the NBA than they do in college - but cumulatively, I think the difference is negligible.

The one problem I see with my proposal is the rookie contract scale. It will be tough to convince teams to allow players to develop in college on their dime, but ultimately, I do not see those first two years of the rookie contract as anything other than expensive growing pains.

I think this could help the NBA if for no other reason than that fans of bad teams have more in the way of tangible hope. One, because their own players are ready, quicker, and two, because it is easy to monitor college careers of players under team control. This also, in my mind, discourages tanking because the draft provides less of a short-term payoff.

If there are kids who want to spend their three years post-high school in the D-League or overseas, let them. But I think they should be eligible to be paid as college students with the caveat that they must remain eligible or risk forfeiting a sizable chunk of their signing bonus.
 
mauconnfan said:
Pretty sure they had something like that in the past. Larry Bird didn't come out right away but didn't the C's own his rights when he did graduate because of a previous draft or trade? It seems to me Red came up with a beauty in the late 70's to secure him.

Anyway nothing will change unless it benefits the NBA, they don't give a rats a** about the kids and they're fine with the minor league culture which is the NCAA for now.
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I think we need to start being realistic about this. First let me just say that imho )and the opinion of many in the league)the college game does do much to prepare kids for the pros and seeing the state of the college game right now i dont see how this could really be argued. My simple solution is kids can go pro out of hs. If they go to college theyre locked in for 2 years. If they go to college and have a monster fr season and they dont want to be in college they can leave to play in europe for a year if theyre that desperate. I dont see the issue with this. if anyone does im all eyes.
 
freescooter said:
This problem was created by the NBA and the Players Association. And relying on them to solve it is like relying on the fox to guard the chickens. If the NCAA wanted to fix it they could, but they don't. But here's 2 simple solutions. Both would fix it in a NY minute.
1. Don't allow freshmen to play. Basically require a redshirt year. The NBA loses its free place to stash players for a season. Players who have no real college interest all go to Europe or the D-league and the NBA is hoist on their own petard.

2.Tie scholarships to the player. Once it is granted it is tied up until his class graduates. This effectively forces coaches to recruit four year players, or at least 3 year players. Even Calipari would change his approach. Imagine if he looked out at 2015-16 and had to face it with 5 scholarship players. And pretty much the same for 16-17 and 17-18, too. Maybe it happens once, but rest assured that he's never again want to lose that many players. That puts pressure on the coaches to recruit guys who plan to stay. You could tinker with the rules so scholarships of kids who transfer in good standing can get "recycled" but otherwise no. In that scenario maybe you take a flyer on 1 kid, and go 3 years down a scholarship, but it won't be a regular practice, that's for sure, because the impact is cumulative up to 4.
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Would never work.
 
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TheChamps990411 said:
I think we need to start being realistic about this. First let me just say that imho )and the opinion of many in the league)the college game does do much to prepare kids for the pros and seeing the state of the college game right now i dont see how this could really be argued. My simple solution is kids can go pro out of hs. If they go to college theyre locked in for 2 years. If they go to college and have a monster fr season and they dont want to be in college they can leave to play in europe for a year if theyre that desperate. I dont see the issue with this. if anyone does im all eyes.
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I'd like to see schools offer only four year scholarships, two to a JC transfer. If a player leaves, the school doesn't get to refill the scholarship.

I am ok with cutting the time in 1/2 (two years scholarship for everyone), but something needs to be done with the one and done mills.
 
A Kid should be eligible for draft at age of 18. If he gets drafted, he is the NBA property to send to the Dleague, abroad or to the end of the bench. If he signs with a college, then is signing on for two years. This simply means that he has signed a contract with a college. The college has to give him all of the benefits of a scholarship. The player is signing over his basketball rights for two years to this college.
If he quits the team, flunks out or transfers, his basketball rights are retained by the college, meaning he plays nowhere but for the college.
No more one and dones. This also means that the college can not give his scholarship to another player even if the kid quits until the two year period is up. All scholarships should be on this two year basis. Two scholarships for four years. A one year 5th year scholarship could still
be used. So, a kid is not being prevented from earning a living by anyone but signing up for college demands a commitment much like joining the army. This also forces colleges to chose well. After the two years is up, no one has any obligations to anyone. Both students and colleges are now free agents in respect to each other.
 
I love how half the posts are to require anyone who goes to college to play basketball becomes an employee of the college for x amount of years - but if we cross referenced with the threads about paying players I'm sure the inconsistencies in logic would be hilarious.

The title game was the highest rated basketball game since what 1998? You guys are trying to fix something that isn't broken in the eyes of the people who run it.
 
It is
whaler11 said:
I love how half the posts are to require anyone who goes to college to play basketball becomes an employee of the college for x amount of years - but if we cross referenced with the threads about paying players I'm sure the inconsistencies in logic would be hilarious.

The title game was the highest rated basketball game since what 1998? You guys are trying to fix something that isn't broken in the eyes of the people who run it.
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The only inconsistencies here is your childish perspective of the world. A scholarship is a payment for playing sports. A
scholarship to Notre Dame for one year has probably $60,000 value. Ninety-five percent of the kids who sign up for a scholarships
will not earn $60,000 dollars playing a pro sport and certainly will not earn $60,000 living in mom's basement. Schools want a return for their investment, hence the years.
Scholarships evolved as a way to serve two purposes, one is to supply entertainment and a brand name for a college and the other is to give someone who could not afford college the opportunity to attend college.

And part of this "not being broken thing" you are smirking at is leaving UConn out of the picture all together.
 
pnow15 said:
It is

The only inconsistencies here is your childish perspective of the world. A scholarship is a payment for playing sports. A
scholarship to Notre Dame for one year has probably $60,000 value. Ninety-five percent of the kids who sign up for a scholarships
will not earn $60,000 dollars playing a pro sport and certainly will not earn $60,000 living in mom's basement. Schools want a return for their investment, hence the years.
Scholarships evolved as a way to serve two purposes, one is to supply entertainment and a brand name for a college and the other is to give someone who could not afford college the opportunity to attend college.

And part of this "not being broken thing" you are smirking at is leaving UConn out of the picture all together.
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Listen genius: One and done is not harming anyone beyond the feelings and tastes of some fans.

Nobody makes schools recruit individual players. If you don't want your program 'harmed' by someone leaving after a year, don't offer them a scholarship.

It's a bit more inconsistent to pursue or hang on every word that Diamond Stone utters. Since you are a bit dense I'll point out that I'm referring to Ryan's comments and a few thousand posts on the Boneyard.
 
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I like the one and done rule. Helps all 3 parties out IMO. The kids mature and learn about life even if they only stay in college for one year. NCAA in ensured that they get the best players for at least a year. NBA gets better developed prospects.
 
We've won two championships in this recent era of one and done's. I'm perfectly fine with the way it is now. We just need to continue to recruit a sprinkling of one or two AA's and surround them with some hard working lunch pail 4 year team player guys. We may not be in FF every single year but we will set ourselves up for NC's.
 
How about the NBA has a one week camp for high school seniors to show what they got. Based on their play, and body of work during their four years of high school, the NBA designates X number of players eligible for the draft if they so choose to. The others are forced to go to college for a minimum of 2 years before they're eligible for the draft. The NCAA would allow these high school players to go to the camp on the NBA's dime and not lose their immature eligibility, if you want to call it that.

If the player is selected in the first round, he's not eligible to go to college protecting the NBA team from ever losing that player. If one of the eligible draftees is not selected in the first round, they can choose to go to college but would have to stay for 2 years. And the NBA team that drafted that player in the second round would lose the rights to that player, if they did not sign that player before some designated date right before the draft two years later. That way it protects the player whose stock has risen dramatically to be able to get guaranteed first-round money. But would also allow the teams that drafted players that are still second round caliber to sign them.

I think this approach is a win-win for all. The player coming out of high school who is ready to play in the NBA or at least very close to playing at that level can choose to enter the draft. That keeps the quality of the NBA game solid. But it also protects NBA franchises from making mistakes and drafting players that aren't ready and may never be ready. Lastly it maintains a level of quality for the NCAA where very good players have time to develop while maintaining the quality of play in the college game that's hurt by one and done players who leave before leaving a solid or very high impact for their college program.

Granted this leaves the door open for a program to recruit a high school player that doesn't end up fulfilling his scholarship, but would prevent programs like Kentucky who might try to stockpile a bunch of top picks and end up losing multiple recruits leaving empty scholarships. For example maybe UConn would not have lost Andrew Bynum in this situation, while the team that signs a LeBron James would end up losing him.

They could do something similar for the college players after their sophomore and junior years to attend a camp that is invitation only to be further evaluated but this time rated for draft selectability. This way it gives them an idea where they stand. Unlike the current rule that doesn't allow them to return to college if they enter the draft, let these rising juniors and seniors choose to do so, but just once. Similar to the above, if the player is selected in the first round they can't return protecting the NBA franchise, but if selected in the 2nd round or not drafted, they can return, but the NBA team would retain their rights till some designated date before the next draft.

Doesn't that sound like a win-win for everyone?
 
Last edited:
The NCAA can't make eligibility rules to enhance the 'quality' of the sport. Once they do that - their arguments on 'amaturism' fly out the window.
 
whaler11 said:
The NCAA can't make eligibility rules to enhance the 'quality' of the sport. Once they do that - their arguments on 'amaturism' fly out the window.
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Hasn't it already?
 
The solution to the problem is to stop calling it a problem.

There are thousands of college basketball players and as of right now, ten of them have decided to go pro after their freshman year.

That's not a problem.
 
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