OT: Rockcats to Hartford?

[BlueMAB]

Yeah, but Marv Hubbard isn't walking through that door.

But that was 40 years ago. Since the we've had the Hellions, the Hellcats, the Pride, the Coyotes, the Sea Wolves, the Colonials and the Wolf Pack. I've been to them all and had a good time at all of them. But besides the Pack, they were all pretty short-lived.

Since you're saying that minor league teams don't do well in Hartford, other than the Wolf Pack, could you tell us how many of those teams you mentioned:

a) Actually played in Hartford?

and

b) Are in leagues that still exist?

and for bonus points

c) Aren't the same team, just renamed?

The Colonials, for example, didn't play in Hartford, and aren't around anymore because the league isn't around. Using them as a comparison for the Rock Cats doesn't make sense. The Pack and the Rock Cats are in well established minor leagues. Some of those other teams were in leagues that were trying to compete with the NFL and NBA, rather than being supported (subsidized even?) by the NHL and MLB.

They may fail, but they have a lot more support than the Colonials or the Pride, or an obscure indoor soccer team that not only failed in Hartford, but failed in Memphis and Las Vegas too.

 

[whaler11]

Since you're saying that minor league teams don't do well in Hartford, other than the Wolf Pack, could you tell us how many of those teams you mentioned:

a) Actually played in Hartford?

and

b) Are in leagues that still exist?

and for bonus points

c) Aren't the same team, just renamed?

The Colonials, for example, didn't play in Hartford, and aren't around anymore because the league isn't around. Using them as a comparison for the Rock Cats doesn't make sense. The Pack and the Rock Cats are in well established minor leagues. Some of those other teams were in leagues that were trying to compete with the NFL and NBA, rather than being supported (subsidized even?) by the NHL and MLB.

They may fail, but they have a lot more support than the Colonials or the Pride, or an obscure indoor soccer team that not only failed in Hartford, but failed in Memphis and Las Vegas too.

I'll try.

Hellions played at HCC. I think MISL exists in some form.

Hellcats played at HCC. I don't think CBA does but outlasted Htfd.

Pride played in Hartford and at U of Hartford. Again CBA....

SeaWolves played at HCC. Yes Arena Football is around.

Colonials obv played in E Hartford and league folded.

Wolfpack I imagine everyone is familiar with.

 

[Waquoit]

Pride played in Hartford and at U of Hartford.

Did the Pride play at UHar? I know they ended up in the Broad St. Armory. The Hartford Caps played at UHar way back when in the Eastern League.

 

[whaler11]

Did the Pride play at UHar? I know they ended up in the Broad St. Armory. The Hartford Caps played at UHar way back when in the Eastern League.

They played at Armory and UHart

 

[UCFBfan]

From what I've read it seemed that if Hartford didn't step up and build this stadium, the Rock Cats would be moving to Springfield or somewhere else out of the state. For all the people who are poo pooing this plan I think the bigger thing they need to look at is what losing the Rock Cats altogether would do.

For anyone who hasn't been to a Rock Cats game I recommend you go. Find a game where they're playing a AA team with a good prospect or two. I've seen plenty come through. Plus, the Twins usually keep their Minor League talent and see them through to the majors. I think keeping them in-state is a big get. The Twins signed up for the next 25 years I believe so once they're in Hartford, they're likely gonna stay for awhile.

Parking for the games will be no more expensive then it was to park in NB. As long as they don't jack up concessions or anything like that, they'll do just as well in Hartford as they did in NB. Pretty excited to see this put in play!

 

[John]

From what I've read it seemed that if Hartford didn't step up and build this stadium, the Rock Cats would be moving to Springfield or somewhere else out of the state. For all the people who are poo pooing this plan I think the bigger thing they need to look at is what losing the Rock Cats altogether would do.

For anyone who hasn't been to a Rock Cats game I recommend you go. Find a game where they're playing a AA team with a good prospect or two. I've seen plenty come through. Plus, the Twins usually keep their Minor League talent and see them through to the majors. I think keeping them in-state is a big get. The Twins signed up for the next 25 years I believe so once they're in Hartford, they're likely gonna stay for awhile.

Parking for the games will be no more expensive then it was to park in NB. As long as they don't jack up concessions or anything like that, they'll do just as well in Hartford as they did in NB. Pretty excited to see this put in play!

While I hate to see them leave NB (I love that stadium and it's easy for me to get to), I'm glad they are staying in CT. I hope NB can get something in there that will keep people's interest. I especially agree with you telling people to attend if they haven't. My kids don't even really like baseball (they are soccer kids), but they love going to games. Excellent seats no matter where you sit, fun games, lots of mini-events between innings to keep them focused, nice selection of reasonably priced food and drinks, etc. It's a good time.

 

[CTMike]

If the alternative truly was Hartford or Springfield, then yes, Hartford is a better option. I'd be curious if renovation options were explored in NB.

IF Hartford doesn't raise parking, IF they don't charge more for concessions, IF they make improvements to that general area, IF they make it safe and inviting, IF this were part of some larger vision or plan...

I'll check it out for sure. But don't half arse this, Hartford. Don't be greedy and try to maximize price. Try something crazy and price to maximize attendence. Give people a reason to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[John]

If the alternative truly was Hartford or Springfield, then yes, Hartford is a better option. I'd be curious if renovation options were explored in NB.

IF Hartford doesn't raise parking, IF they don't charge more for concessions, IF they make improvements to that general area, IF they make it safe and inviting, IF this were part of some larger vision or plan...

I'll check it out for sure. But don't half arse this, Hartford. Don't be greedy and try to maximize price. Try something crazy and price to maximize attendence. Give people a reason to give you the benefit of the doubt.

pricing concerns me - we go to NB in part because it's reasonable to do so.

 

[UCFBfan]

pricing concerns me - we go to NB in part because it's reasonable to do so.

I agree with this 100% The cheap concessions and ticket prices make going to games easy and reasonable to do on a regular occasion. Look forward to bringing my daughter to her first game this summer. Hope I can do the same in Hartford!

 

[BlueMAB]

If the alternative truly was Hartford or Springfield, then yes, Hartford is a better option. I'd be curious if renovation options were explored in NB.

IF Hartford doesn't raise parking, IF they don't charge more for concessions, IF they make improvements to that general area, IF they make it safe and inviting, IF this were part of some larger vision or plan...

I'll check it out for sure. But don't half arse this, Hartford. Don't be greedy and try to maximize price. Try something crazy and price to maximize attendence. Give people a reason to give you the benefit of the doubt.

When was the last time you were in Hartford outside of basketball season? Have you been to the Science Center? The new movie theater and restaurants on Front St? Hartford is making improvements to the downtown area, but most of it has to come from the private sector. Hartford can't revitalize without people wanting to come in to start businesses, and everyone who says they won't support this if parking is $10 instead of $5 is part of the problem.

Other than the area near Papa's, and that was a direct result of people exiting the clubs/bars drunk and assembling in one very small location looking for food and a "companion" for the evening, Hartford is no more dangerous than any other city. And New Britain isn't the best place to get lost after dark either.

Besides, Hartford doesn't set the ticket prices, or the concession prices. Does East Hartford determine the price of a beer at the rent? And who is "Hartford"? Some boogeyman in a closet making all of the decision on pricing and parking and whether or not the city will be safe and inviting that weekend? Apologies for the sarcasm, but some of your concerns/complaints are coming off very naive and uninformed. "Hartford" raising concession prices? Really?

 

[BlueMAB]

I'll try.

Hellions played at HCC. I think MISL exists in some form.

Hellcats played at HCC. I don't think CBA does but outlasted Htfd.

Pride played in Hartford and at U of Hartford. Again CBA....

SeaWolves played at HCC. Yes Arena Football is around.

Colonials obv played in E Hartford and league folded.

Wolfpack I imagine everyone is familiar with.

The Pride/Hellcats are the same team. The CBA folded in 2009/10.

The Hellions were in the MISL which folded in 1992.

The Colonials didn't play in Hartford, and the league folded in 2010.

The Sea Wolves played in Hartford and Arena football still exists.

The Wolf Pack are doing just fine.

So to prove his point that minor league sports don't succeed in Hartford he picked:

3 teams from leagues that folded, (one of which didn't even play in Hartford)
1 team in Hartford doing relatively well,
and 1 team that left Hartford in a league that is still operating.

None of that shows why a MLB affiliated franchise can't succeed in Hartford.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I totally forgot about the Waterbury team. The Spirit I think it was. Used to go to Municipal Stadium all the time to watch them. Good childhood memories there. Now all I get at the stadium is lackluster firework displays on the 4th.

The West Haven A's and Yankees were the first baseball games I went to with my grandfather, good memories. even of the stadium was a creaky old wooden thing.

 

[CTMike]

When was the last time you were in Hartford outside of basketball season? Have you been to the Science Center? The new movie the lawer and restaurants on Front St? Hartford is making improvements to the downtown area, but most of it has to come from the private sector. Hartford can't revitalize without people wanting to come in to start businesses, and everyone who says they won't support this if parking is $10 instead of $5 is part of the problem.

Other than the area near Papa's, and that was a direct result of people exiting the clubs/bars drunk and assembling in one very small location looking for food and a "companion" for the evening, Hartford is no more dangerous than any other city. And New Britain isn't the best place to get lost after dark either.

Besides, Hartford doesn't set the ticket prices, or the concession prices. Does East Hartford determine the price of a beer at the rent? And who is "Hartford"? Some boogeyman in a closet making all of the decision on pricing and parking and whether or not the city will be safe and inviting that weekend? Apologies for the sarcasm, but some of your concerns/complaints are coming off very naive and uninformed. "Hartford" raising concession prices? Really?

No, Hartford doesn't raise concession prices... But pricey new stadiums with 500% higher rent makes one wonder.

I'm a Hartford fan, Wing. I want it to succeed. I'm not scared of the downtown area, anyway. The science center and Front Street are all pretty great. Hopefully they can keep the things that make the Rockcats great in NB (great family atmosphere and value) as they move.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

From what I've read it seemed that if Hartford didn't step up and build this stadium, the Rock Cats would be moving to Springfield or somewhere else out of the state. For all the people who are poo pooing this plan I think the bigger thing they need to look at is what losing the Rock Cats altogether would do.

For anyone who hasn't been to a Rock Cats game I recommend you go. Find a game where they're playing a AA team with a good prospect or two. I've seen plenty come through. Plus, the Twins usually keep their Minor League talent and see them through to the majors. I think keeping them in-state is a big get. The Twins signed up for the next 25 years I believe so once they're in Hartford, they're likely gonna stay for awhile.

Parking for the games will be no more expensive then it was to park in NB. As long as they don't jack up concessions or anything like that, they'll do just as well in Hartford as they did in NB. Pretty excited to see this put in play!

Minor League is a lot of fun, especially for families, at a reasonable price with stadiums that are usually easier and cheaper to get to. I used to travel a lot for work and instead of bars (pre-BlackBerry and Wi-Fi days) I went to sporting events. In the last 20 years I have been to 1) Portland Sea Dogs, 3) NH (Manchester) Fishercats, 4) Lowell Spinners, 5) NB RockCats, 6) Rockland (NY) Boulders, 7) Staten Island Yankees, 8) Tri-City (Troy NY) Valley Cats, 9) Rochester RedWings, 10) State College Spikes (PA), 11) Toledo Mud Hens (Klinger still does PR for them), 12) Great Lake (Midland MI) Loons, 13) Lansing Lugnuts, 14) W Michigan (Grand Rapids) Whitecaps, 15) Kane County (IL) Cougars), and 16) Round Rock (TX) Express. I have promised my older son that in a few yeas for Spring break I will take him and his brother to catch Spring Training in FL for the Yanks (my team) and the Red Sox (his). Mom can go if she just wants to hang at the beach.

 

[whaler11]

The Pride/Hellcats are the same team. The CBA folded in 2009/10.

The Hellions were in the MISL which folded in 1992.

The Colonials didn't play in Hartford, and the league folded in 2010.

The Sea Wolves played in Hartford and Arena football still exists.

The Wolf Pack are doing just fine.

So to prove his point that minor league sports don't succeed in Hartford he picked:

3 teams from leagues that folded, (one of which didn't even play in Hartford)
1 team in Hartford doing relatively well,
and 1 team that left Hartford in a league that is still operating.

None of that shows why a MLB affiliated franchise can't succeed in Hartford.

I was just answering your questions.

I wasn't sure that the Hellcats and Pride were the same franchise. This is from memory but didn't the Hellcats fold midseason days after hosting the CBA all star game? They folded long before the league.

The Hellions folded long before the league too and MISL exists just like Arena it disappeared for a while and
came back... just took MISL longer.

I think they are stupid to move but I don't care. They draw from the suburbs, there is no way downtown business people are sticking around for Rock Cats games.

I'm sure they will be fine in a new stadium and will be perfectly solvent but clearly the stadium and traffic aren't keeping people away. Hartford will keep some people away.

 

[Padutch5]

From what I've read it seemed that if Hartford didn't step up and build this stadium, the Rock Cats would be moving to Springfield or somewhere else out of the state. For all the people who are poo pooing this plan I think the bigger thing they need to look at is what losing the Rock Cats altogether would do.

For anyone who hasn't been to a Rock Cats game I recommend you go. Find a game where they're playing a AA team with a good prospect or two. I've seen plenty come through. Plus, the Twins usually keep their Minor League talent and see them through to the majors. I think keeping them in-state is a big get. The Twins signed up for the next 25 years I believe so once they're in Hartford, they're likely gonna stay for awhile.

Parking for the games will be no more expensive then it was to park in NB. As long as they don't jack up concessions or anything like that, they'll do just as well in Hartford as they did in NB. Pretty excited to see this put in play!

Beautiful dreamer. " as long as they don't jack up the price of concessions" please compare the current price ( and quality). of concessions in NB vs. Hartford.

 

[CL82]

So the answer is "no".

Meh, she's a cute kid, 26 years old and mayor of 75,000 person city. I think she'll survive the fact that some on this board don't find her attractive. I like the way she's aggressively going after this. I don't know much about her or whether she's doing a decent job, but she seems likeable.

 

[DSquiz]

Meh, she's a cute kid, 26 years old and mayor of 75,000 person city. I think she'll survive the fact that some on this board don't find her attractive. I like the way she's aggressively going after this. I don't know much about her or whether she's doing a decent job, but she seems likeable.

I really don't think there was anything she could have done. The new owners were going to move the team. It was between Hartford and Springfield and at least the team is still in CT.

Now voters may not see that but I honestly think that she did her best given the situation.

 

[Palatine]

Didn't New Britain steal the team from Bristol?

Regardless, if the new stadium is true to the drawing in the Courant, it looks like a great place to spend a warm summer evening.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

The JI doesn't seem to like the idea...

http://www.journalinquirer.com/opin...cle_7b4e2922-ebf1-11e3-b938-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[WestHartHusk]

The JI doesn't seem to like the idea...

http://www.journalinquirer.com/opin...cle_7b4e2922-ebf1-11e3-b938-001a4bcf887a.html

What is the JI

 

[John]

The JI doesn't seem to like the idea...

http://www.journalinquirer.com/opin...cle_7b4e2922-ebf1-11e3-b938-001a4bcf887a.html

Hartford was once the richest city in the country???

"But despite the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on downtown relocation, Hartford, once the richest city in the country, has become only poorer and more dependent."

 

[WestHartHusk]

Hartford was once the richest city in the country???

"But despite the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on downtown relocation, Hartford, once the richest city in the country, has become only poorer and more dependent."

Yup. Twain travwlled the world and settled in Hartford for its wealth and beauty. Unfortunately, we destroyed most of that beauty to " modernize" for the car - whoops.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Hartford was once the richest city in the country???

"But despite the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on downtown relocation, Hartford, once the richest city in the country, has become only poorer and more dependent."

I don't have any numbers; but, Hartford is in what has historically been a rich state, was home to some major manufacturers for a while (Colt, Pratt, Otis, etc.), which then developed insurance companies to protect their losses that made Hartford the insurance capital of the world for some time. Thus, I believe it. The loss of manufacturing, the globalization of insurance and suburban flight that sent a lot of the money to the burbs via I-84/I-91 killed it. That and Hartford is a New England city and thus was not able to expand its borders to the suburbs where the people and jobs went to (the city of Houston TX is half the land size of the state of Rhode Island) has made Hartford what it is today.

 

[Excalibur]

I don't have any numbers; but, Hartford is in what has historically been a rich state, was home to some major manufacturers for a while (Colt, Pratt, Otis, etc.), which then developed insurance companies to protect their losses that made Hartford the insurance capital of the world for some time. Thus, I believe it. The loss of manufacturing, the globalization of insurance and suburban flight that sent a lot of the money to the burbs via I-84/I-91 killed it. That and Hartford is a New England city and thus was not able to expand its borders to the suburbs where the people and jobs went to (the city of Houston TX is half the land size of the state of Rhode Island) has made Hartford what it is today.

Powell seems oblivious to the intricacies how northeastern cities differ from those in other parts of the country. He is correct that infrastructure alone does not solve anything. You need people with money to locate where you are building the infrastructure. His other premise regarding social policy is woefully obtuse. What he described is the case in most every American city. His citing of West Hartford is proof of his ignorance. The same migration has taken place elsewhere, but the destination is still within the city limits because the cities are just geographically larger.