OT: Ray Allen listed as a top 50 player of all time

[joober jones]

I've often reminisced upon the 50 greatest players ceremony and wondered who would eventually be bumped. I guess now I know.

 

[joober jones]

Also, I think McHale has to be removed before Drexler.

 

[David 76]

I wouldnt put Miller in my top 50 all time. But then again i never saw all 50 of these players throughout there careers so to think i could give a really well informed opinion is a bit silly.

If you think you need a well-reasoned argument, you don't belong on the BY.

 

[superjohn]

I know some of the older guys had much shorter careers, and for that reason, the newer guys get bonus points for longevity, but if you had one game to play tonight, aren't you taking James Worthy over, say, Dwayne Wade, or Drexler over Paul Pierce?

Drexler over Pierce but no way is Worthy over Wade. Wade is the 3rd best shooting guard of all-time IMO.

 

[upstater]

Drexler over Pierce but no way is Worthy over Wade. Wade is the 3rd best shooting guard of all-time IMO.

Well, there's a relative lack of shooting guards on that list. Guys like Elgin Baylor, Julius Irving, Oscar Robertson, would be shooting guards in today's game, George Gervin too. Oscar played PG but the rest were all SF including Scottie Pippen. Hard to make a comparison, but if you put Wade into the SG/SF mix, he doesn't come anywhere near my top 6. I'd consider Worthy for the bench of an All-Time All-Star team. I think he was that good. Automatic from the low-post, and one of the originators of inside-out play at the PF position

 

[superjohn]

Well, there's a relative lack of shooting guards on that list. Guys like Elgin Baylor, Julius Irving, Oscar Robertson, would be shooting guards in today's game, George Gervin too. Oscar played PG but the rest were all SF including Scottie Pippen. Hard to make a comparison, but if you put Wade into the SG/SF mix, he doesn't come anywhere near my top 6. I'd consider Worthy for the bench of an All-Time All-Star team. I think he was that good. Automatic from the low-post, and one of the originators of inside-out play at the PF position

There is no argument that Worthy is better than Wade. That's just as ridiculous as putting Allen or Miller ahead of Drexler.

 

[upstater]

There is no argument that Worthy is better than Wade. That's just as ridiculous as putting Allen or Miller ahead of Drexler.

I'm trying to see why you rate Wade so highly. Do you think he's better than the guys listed above?

 

[superjohn]

I'm trying to see why you rate Wade so highly. Do you think he's better than the guys listed above?

Not ahead of Oscar or Baylor but slightly ahead of Gervin and far ahead of Worthy. Right alongside Dr. J.

 

[Travelman6]

Anyone who thinks Allen does not belong on the TOP 50 just is not a big enough Uconn fan IMHO.

He absolutely is top 50 and one of the most clutch players ever and most pure 3pt shooters outside of Curry (and Curry has been doing it short term so far, just a few years).

Plus, just for how it helps the long term perception of Uconn should not be understated, because it does. The longer there is at least one Husky, the better. How many college teams can say they have even one top 50 nba player of all time? Not many, I am sure. Come to Uconn, you could be the next Ray Allen, top 50 nba player of all time or the next Kemba, 5 games in 5 nights followed by 6-o for the national title. Gotta keep pumping this stuff up as much as possible. Not smart to argue against his inclusion if you love the bball team.

 

[upstater]

Also, I think McHale has to be removed before Drexler.

Really? I have McHale way up in my top 3o.

McHale and Worthy played a game they don't play today. Post moves. Maybe not so appreciated. But who are the PFs today who can do what they did?

Makes me wonder if we'll get to the day when the post moves of a guy like Olajuwon will similarly be unappreciated.

 

[tzznandrew]

Peak Wade > Peak Kobe.

There, I said it. More efficient. More clutch. His performance against the Mavericks in 2006 is more impressive than anything Kobe did.

If you're ranking them all time, you have to go with Kobe, whose career is certainly better. But if I had to build a team with healthy players at their peak, Jordan is my #1 SG, and then I struggle between Baylor and Wade.

Oh, yeah, Wade + Kobe >>>>> Worthy. Sorry, Worthy was a great player, but not in their stratosphere.

 

[joober jones]

Really? I have McHale way up in my top 3o.

McHale and Worthy played a game they don't play today. Post moves. Maybe not so appreciated. But who are the PFs today who can do what they did?

Makes me wonder if we'll get to the day when the post moves of a guy like Olajuwon will similarly be unappreciated.

I don't think McHale shouldn't be top 50, but I do think Drexler was a superior player. He did have great post moves, no arguments there.

 

[gtcam]

Any list without Pistol Pete is not a list
I don't care how short lived his career was
If there was a 3 pt shot in his days......................................

I'm up in the air as far as Ray Allen is concerned but if Reggie Miller is there, Ray Allen is a must. Anyway, Ray Allen is one of my favorites and will always be.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Peak Wade > Peak Kobe.

There, I said it. More efficient. More clutch. His performance against the Mavericks in 2006 is more impressive than anything Kobe did.

If you're ranking them all time, you have to go with Kobe, whose career is certainly better. But if I had to build a team with healthy players at their peak, Jordan is my #1 SG, and then I struggle between Baylor and Wade.

Oh, yeah, Wade + Kobe >>>>> Worthy. Sorry, Worthy was a great player, but not in their stratosphere.

Kobe averaged 35 ppg while being a first team all defense player. Wade never did that. And I have no idea how you can say D Wade is more clutch than Kobe.

 

[NielsisGood]

Kobe averaged 35 ppg while being a first team all defense player. Wade never did that. And I have no idea how you can say D Wade is more clutch than Kobe.

Plus Kobe could actually shoot somewhat, Wade never really could. I don't think Kobe is super far ahead of Wade, but I don't really see any argument for Wade being better.

 

[tzznandrew]

Kobe averaged 35 ppg while being a first team all defense player. Wade never did that. And I have no idea how you can say D Wade is more clutch than Kobe.

Kobe made first team all-defensive teams in much the same way Derek Jeter won golden gloves: reputation. He had ceased being a great defender, and even the year he scored 35 ppg he did so pretty inefficiently. Even when you factor in his consistent drawing FTs and better 3pt%, his true shooting percentages were always below Wade's.

Kobe was an inefficient gunner, and particularly ineffective in crunch time. The stats bear this out, as well. So does him throwing up all over his feet in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals.

Prime Wade was a more efficient scorer. The stats suggest neither shot that well in the clutch, but I'm hanging my argument on "clutchness" on his 2006 NBA Finals. Kobe really doesn't have anything quite like that on his resume.

Again, if you're giving me a career, give my Kobe. If you're giving me either at their peak, give me DWade.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Kobe made first team all-defensive teams in much the same way Derek Jeter won golden gloves: reputation. He had ceased being a great defender, and even the year he scored 35 ppg he did so pretty inefficiently. Even when you factor in his consistent drawing FTs and better 3pt%, his true shooting percentages were always below Wade's.

Kobe was an inefficient gunner, and particularly ineffective in crunch time. The stats bear this out, as well. So does him throwing up all over his feet in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals.

Prime Wade was a more efficient scorer. The stats suggest neither shot that well in the clutch, but I'm hanging my argument on "clutchness" on his 2006 NBA Finals. Kobe really doesn't have anything quite like that on his resume.

Again, if you're giving me a career, give my Kobe. If you're giving me either at their peak, give me DWade.

At his peak Kobe was a lockdown defender, can't really argue that he wasn't. Maybe D Wade was a more efficient scorer, but that's because he didn't take threes. Also you can't base "clutchness" off of one finals, Kobe consistently was clutch throughout virtually every playoff series he played in.

 

[NielsisGood]

Kobe made first team all-defensive teams in much the same way Derek Jeter won golden gloves: reputation. He had ceased being a great defender, and even the year he scored 35 ppg he did so pretty inefficiently. Even when you factor in his consistent drawing FTs and better 3pt%, his true shooting percentages were always below Wade's.

Kobe was an inefficient gunner, and particularly ineffective in crunch time. The stats bear this out, as well. So does him throwing up all over his feet in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals.

Prime Wade was a more efficient scorer. The stats suggest neither shot that well in the clutch, but I'm hanging my argument on "clutchness" on his 2006 NBA Finals. Kobe really doesn't have anything quite like that on his resume.

Again, if you're giving me a career, give my Kobe. If you're giving me either at their peak, give me DWade.

Wade through his 5 year peak from the 06-07 thru 10-11 had a TS% of .570


Kobe from 04-05 thru 08-09 had a TS% of .568


As you can guess, Kobe leads most other categories in those respective 5 year peak runs.