OT: Ray Allen listed as a top 50 player of all time | The Boneyard

OT: Ray Allen listed as a top 50 player of all time

CL82

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Allen’s longevity, his impact as a guy who helped change the game to what it’s become behind the arc and his titles are a difference,” remarked Araton, the former New York Times columnist who covered the NBA for 40 years. “His Game 6 shot in Miami is one of the greatest degree-of-difficulty pressure baskets ever.”

:)
 

UConnSwag11

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Allen’s longevity, his impact as a guy who helped change the game to what it’s become behind the arc and his titles are a difference,” remarked Araton, the former New York Times columnist who covered the NBA for 40 years. “His Game 6 shot in Miami is one of the greatest degree-of-difficulty pressure baskets ever.”

:)
His series against Gordon is one of the best of all time
 
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I love Ray. But I have a hard time saying that he was a better player than Drexler. In fact, I don't think he was. Drexler was a better scorer (20.6 to 18.9), rebounder (6.1 to 4.1), passer (5.6 to 3.1) and in terms of steals (2.0 to 1.1). Both were 10 time all stars but Clyde was a 5-time All NBA guy and Ray was twice. In their primes as #1 guys, Clyde was better and his team was one of the league powers. Ray's Seattle teams were generally pretty mediocre. Not that that can be totally used against Ray, but Clyde put up those #'s on a great team whereas Ray's teams missed the playoffs in all but one season while he was there. Portland never missed the playoffs while Clyde was there.
 
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That's awesome, but strange to see all 3 Celtics from their '08 Big 3 as top 50 players of all-time considering they have 1 MVP award and 1 title split among them (well I guess Ray has more). You'd think 32/50 slots would be taken up by MVP winners (minus a couple), so good to see Pierce and Allen squeak into the remainder. I'm biased but I think Allen is more deserving than Pierce due to the 3pt record, and I might have left Pierce off even despite his excellent longevity (15th in points scored, but not inside the top 30 of the top 50 in scoring/g and didn't do a ton else) and "captain" of that title team status.

Also...

Nearly 20 members of The Undefeated staff — led by senior NBA writer Marc Spears and senior writer/columnist Mike Wise, with a combined 45 years of experience covering the league

This is lol. Average of 2 years covering?? How is that even possible over a sample of 20 people in the industry? I know they had retired NBA writers and NBA hall of Famers comment on the list for them to shore up this inexperience, but it's still funny.
 
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Ray had great seasons on horrible teams. He was double teamed a lot and he was forced to play a ton of point guard for the first 9-10 years of his career, which wasn't his forte. I'd say a prime Ray was better than Clyde. Clyde was my favorite player as a kid but my overall memory tells me he had an inconsistent jumper and missed a lot of big shots at crunch time. Ray was the best of all time shooting the ball and hit countless game winners. He also had clutch performances when the younger guns struggled that lead to two titles. Hell, he even locked up Kobe pretty good in the finals and he wasn't even considered a good defender. He came through whenever he had to. I love Clyde but if you give me either of those guys in their prime to start a team, I'm taking Ray. The numbers are a little deceptive, Ray played longer reducing his career ppg, he had a lot of injuries in the later years and he had no one to pass to. Rebounding, I'll give to Clyde, which makes sense, he's a big dude.
 
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The list is a joke without Clyde Drexler. I love Ray Allen but no way was he a better player than Drexler.
 

Matrim55

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I love Ray. I'm thrilled to see him get dap. He's generally underrated and is probably a top-50 player all-time (and is significantly better than Miller or Iverson, who were one-trick ponies), but no sane person can put him ahead of Drexler.
 
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I think that is somewhat of a toss up, but Pippen is significantly better than both IMO.
It's not even close. Drexler is better than Pippen IMO but at least you can debate that. Ray over Drexler is just silly.
 
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That's awesome, but strange to see all 3 Celtics from their '08 Big 3 as top 50 players of all-time considering they have 1 MVP award and 1 title split among them (well I guess Ray has more). You'd think 32/50 slots would be taken up by MVP winners (minus a couple), so good to see Pierce and Allen squeak into the remainder. I'm biased but I think Allen is more deserving than Pierce due to the 3pt record, and I might have left Pierce off even despite his excellent longevity (15th in points scored, but not inside the top 30 of the top 50 in scoring/g and didn't do a ton else) and "captain" of that title team status.

Also...



This is lol. Average of 2 years covering?? How is that even possible over a sample of 20 people in the industry? I know they had retired NBA writers and NBA hall of Famers comment on the list for them to shore up this inexperience, but it's still funny.

I would keep Pierce on over Ray, PP was still a very good shooter in his own right and was a tougher guard (I remember seeing a quote years back from LeBron about how Carmelo and Pierce were his 2 toughest matchups) and more well rounded as a player.



Also I think the part about the writers and their experience was specifically in reference to Spears/Wise having 45 years of experience between the two of them.
 
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I love Ray. I'm thrilled to see him get dap. He's generally underrated and is probably a top-50 player all-time (and is significantly better than Miller or Iverson, who were one-trick ponies), but no sane person can put him ahead of Drexler.

Seemed like they more or less just gave Miller a pass based on some flimsy reasoning. I would take him off personally.
 

Matrim55

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Seemed like they more or less just gave Miller a pass based on some flimsy reasoning. I would take him off personally.
Same. Miller was great at what he did, but also had the great fortune of playing surrounded by guys – Jackson, Mullin, Dale & Antonio Davis – who did a remarkable job of hiding his flaws either as a ball-handler, rebounder or defensive presence. He also played his entire prime for one good coach (Bob Hill) and two great ones (Larry Brown & Larry Bird). Ray never got to play for a great coach, and only got to play for good coaches (including 30 games for Hill) after exiting his prime.

Ray never had teammates as complete as what Miller had until he moved to the Celtics. Give him a decade of guys like that, and he'd have four or five titles as well as a half-dozen more series-winning shots.

Also, here is my favorite sports hot take: If Ray and Kobe had switched places in 1996, the Lakers would've won five titles instead of three. Yes, Kobe was a better player, but Ray was a better fit both on the court (he would've stretched the defense) and personality-wise (he would've more easily played second-fiddle to Shaq).

So much of sports is "fit."
 
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Also I think the part about the writers and their experience was specifically in reference to Spears/Wise having 45 years of experience between the two of them.

Ha I read the hyphen as a comma. That makes much more sense.
 
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Same. Miller was great at what he did, but also had the great fortune of playing surrounded by guys – Jackson, Mullin, Dale & Antonio Davis – who did a remarkable job of hiding his flaws either as a ball-handler, rebounder or defensive presence. He also played his entire prime for one good coach (Bob Hill) and two great ones (Larry Brown & Larry Bird). Ray never got to play for a great coach, and only got to play for good coaches (including 30 games for Hill) after exiting his prime.

Ray never had teammates as complete as what Miller had until he moved to the Celtics. Give him a decade of guys like that, and he'd have four or five titles as well as a half-dozen more series-winning shots.

Also, here is my favorite sports hot take: If Ray and Kobe had switched places in 1996, the Lakers would've won five titles instead of three. Yes, Kobe was a better player, but Ray was a better fit both on the court (he would've stretched the defense) and personality-wise (he would've more easily played second-fiddle to Shaq).

So much of sports is "fit."

I'm interested in that take honestly. I'm not sure whether I agree with it entirely or not. Obviously Ray wouldn't clash with Shaq the way Kobe did, but at the same time Kobe was a more explosive player on both ends and the Lakers honestly needed that extra scoring punch considering what the rest of that roster was. The best conclusion I could come to is that they maybe don't 3peat from 00-02, but then would have kept the team together and without drama through the tail end of Shaq's prime from 04-06. Then they probably don't win the 09-10 titles if the team is Ray/Pau.


That's just the best conclusion I could come to, and I don't feel that strongly about it. It's a good topic to debate though for sure.
 
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I love Ray. I'm thrilled to see him get dap. He's generally underrated and is probably a top-50 player all-time (and is significantly better than Miller or Iverson, who were one-trick ponies), but no sane person can put him ahead of Drexler.
Better than Iverson? No way
 
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Ray being in there over Clyde is pretty bad but putting Reggie Miller in over him is downright criminal. Reggie is by far the most overrated player from the 80/90s heyday. A few big moments in the postseason, mainly against the Knicks, and everyone glosses over what kind of player he actually was. I mean seriously, as anyone ever said a bad thing about Reggie Miller as a player? Guy is immune to criticism for some reason.
 
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I know some of the older guys had much shorter careers, and for that reason, the newer guys get bonus points for longevity, but if you had one game to play tonight, aren't you taking James Worthy over, say, Dwayne Wade, or Drexler over Paul Pierce?
 
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I know some of the older guys had much shorter careers, and for that reason, the newer guys get bonus points for longevity, but if you had one game to play tonight, aren't you taking James Worthy over, say, Dwayne Wade, or Drexler over Paul Pierce?

Drexler, yes, Worthy, no.
 
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Not really. Pierce was clutch and Wade was the best of all 4 in this group if we are talking about them in their prime.
 
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I wouldnt put Miller in my top 50 all time. But then again i never saw all 50 of these players throughout there careers so to think i could give a really well informed opinion is a bit silly.
 

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