OT - possible NCAA grad transfer rule change

[djct1999]

Agreed on compensation. Personally I just have a hard time making a kid sit a year when he transfers when coaches can leave at any time without any penalty

Surely the coaches should also have to live with the decisions they made or sit out a year as well?

Well, I do believe coaches(and programs) should be held to a similar standard. But this is comparing apples to oranges. Why should Nate Oats be penalized for accepting a better job? So, in that case, any kid who committed to Nate Oats should be able to leave without penalty. Or if a school gets a tournament ban for activity prior to the kid signing his letter. But it still should have nothing to do with whether they graduated or not. Letting kids transfer with no recourse will be pure chaos. If so, whats stopping John Calipari from recruiting("paying") a top player from the Big East, AAC, or Pac12 when he missses on a 5 star to Duke? The trickle down effect will crush the sport.

I am all for player rights. However, hypothetically, I am fairly certain people on this boad starting with the two of you would be livid if a healthy AG decided to transfer to Kentucky because the starting PG declared for the draft.

 

[navery12]

Well, I do believe coaches(and programs) should be held to a similar standard. But this is comparing apples to oranges. Why should Nate Oats be penalized for accepting a better job? So, in that case, any kid who committed to Nate Oats should be able to leave without penalty. Or if a school gets a tournament ban for activity prior to the kid signing his letter. But it still should have nothing to do with whether they graduated or not. Letting kids transfer with no recourse will be pure chaos. If so, whats stopping John Calipari from recruiting("paying") a top player from the Big East, AAC, or Pac12 when he missses on a 5 star to Duke? The trickle down effect will crush the sport.

I am all for player rights. However, hypothetically, I am fairly certain people on this boad starting with the two of you would be livid if a healthy AG decided to transfer to Kentucky because the starting PG declared for the draft.

I just don't see a difference between Nate Oats signing a contract at Buffalo, exceeding expectations and getting a bigger job for more money at Alabama and a kid going to Bucknell, exceeding expectations and playing really well, and getting a scholarship to Kentucky. If there's no reason for a coach to be penalized then I don't see the logic for an athlete to be penalized

 

[djct1999]

I just don't see a difference between Nate Oats signing a contract at Buffalo, exceeding expectations and getting a bigger job for more money at Alabama and a kid going to Bucknell, exceeding expectations and playing really well, and getting a scholarship to Kentucky. If there's no reason for a coach to be penalized then I don't see the logic for an athlete to be penalized

Who said this kid exceeded expectations. Because he graduated there is a loophole in the rule that suggests he doesn’t have to sit out. It inflates his value. I am almost certain if that same kid from bucknell was a junior and had to sit out neither he nor Kentucky would be interested. The reason the schools wants change is because this infuriates mid major coaches. It makes the playing field even less fair.

I totally see your point though that coaches should be held accountable to.

 

[Engineer90]

I thought the NCAA wasn't going to get into the education side of things and leave that up to the schools?

 

[AZHuskiePop]

First of all it’s more about education than you think.
The two requirements for a grad transfer are a BS/BA degree and an unused year of eligibility. How many one and dones end up graduating
So the NCAA wants to punish kids who not only graduate but kids that lost a year , usual due to injury.
That sounds fair .

 

[sledog]

MS degrees typically require 10 credits / courses, and full timers take 4 per semester. Can't get degree in 2 semester w/o 2 transfer credits. Play hoops at same time, yet?? Does rule allow provision summer school while the clock is running?

Thinking a bit more, I suppose its depends on major. Grad engrg / science / heavy on math was 4 courses, but business school was 5 courses / term.

 

[CL82]

Sure, but should you be able to pick any school you want and play basketball for them? Personally, I am not a fan of the grad transfer thing and view it simply as a loop hole. Reid Travis left Stanford to go to Kentucky. That was all about basketball and gaming the system. Not about education. I am cool if this joke stops.

I'd suggest that "grad transfer" is a misnomer. Once you graduate you aren't transferring any more than any other kid who finishes his degree.

 

[RichZ]

If you think the grad transfer rule was ever about an athlete earning a degree in something they couldn't get at the original school you're beyond naive

If the "degree" he's really after is a shot to play in the NCAA tourney and to gain some exposure for his game, to get closer to his dream of playing professionally than the mid major or bottom rung of a weak conference school he matriculated at can get him, the rule as it exists now is just fine.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[CL82]

Oh, I get it. The proposal guarantees the scholly if the player doesn't finish their degree even the player has no eligibility left. NO problem with that whatsoever. If the kid decides not to pursue the degree (e.g., goes pro) he should not be counted for the following year.

 

[Dogdeacon]

There are no rules on regular students transferring so why should there be rules on student athletes* transferring ?

*unless it is a UConn kid transferring to BC or its ilk, then presumably they are shot

 

[freescooter]

Surely the coaches should also have to live with the decisions they made or sit out a year as well?

Different situation entirely. But I would agree if schools had to honor contracts. Couldn’t replace a coach until his contract was up. Right now they are moving toward an annual player draft in college basketball.

 

[freescooter]

There are no rules on regular students transferring so why should there be rules on student athletes* transferring ?

*unless it is a UConn kid transferring to BC or its ilk, then presumably they are shot

Regular students don’t typically get free rides plus cost of attendance and a bunch of other perks. I think they should be perfectly free to transfer. Just not eligible for any athletic scholarships.

 

[Travelman6]

Personally, I believe these kids deserve compensation.

They are compensated with free four year degrees which aren't cheap and sometimes approach six figures for the four years, easily. They are compensated with access to some of the best personal trainers, state of the art gyms, free shoes, meals, housing, travel and hotels, exposure on national tv, medical, tutors and so much more. When you tally that all up that is worth a lot of money. Now you want to pay them while all other students are burdened with debt up to their necks to get the same edu.

You want to pay them? Than take away all those benefits and let them use the money they are being given to pay for all that like all other students already do..

 

[navery12]

They are compensated with free four year degrees which aren't cheap and sometimes approach six figures for the four years, easily. They are compensated with access to some of the best personal trainers, state of the art gyms, free shoes, meals, housing, travel and hotels, exposure on national tv, medical, tutors and so much more. When you tally that all up that is worth a lot of money. Now you want to pay them while all other students are burdened with debt up to their necks to get the same edu.

You want to pay them? Than take away all those benefits and let them use the money they are being given to pay for all that like all other students already do..

Yes I do want to pay them, they deserve it

 

[upstater]

They are compensated with free four year degrees which aren't cheap and sometimes approach six figures for the four years, easily. They are compensated with access to some of the best personal trainers, state of the art gyms, free shoes, meals, housing, travel and hotels, exposure on national tv, medical, tutors and so much more. When you tally that all up that is worth a lot of money. Now you want to pay them while all other students are burdened with debt up to their necks to get the same edu.

You want to pay them? Than take away all those benefits and let them use the money they are being given to pay for all that like all other students already do..

Also add the $4-6k a year they get since the NCAA allowed it a few years ago.

 

[upstater]

Yes I do want to pay them, they deserve it

But they are already paid. $4k to $6k a year.

What does deserve have to do with it though? A lot of people who work hard at universities deserve it, and they are not as well compensated. You can make a case that they deserve it too.

 

[navery12]

But they are already paid. $4k to $6k a year.

What does deserve have to do with it though? A lot of people who work hard at universities deserve it, and they are not as well compensated. You can make a case that they deserve it too.

Ok then I'll rephrase, they deserve to be paid significantly more. Those "deserving" people don't bring in millions for their universities

 

[upstater]

Ok then I'll rephrase, they deserve to be paid significantly more. Those "deserving" people don't bring in millions for their universities

Those deserving people actually bring in more than the players do. You can do the math. Break down how many millions are brought in by the players, and then compare to say a TA. The TA brings in more. But gets paid less.

 

[navery12]

Those deserving people actually bring in more than the players do. You can do the math. Break down how many millions are brought in by the players, and then compare to say a TA. The TA brings in more. But gets paid less.

If you're comparing athletes and TAs I have nothing else to say because there's nothing that will convince you. So moving on

 

[upstater]

If you're comparing athletes and TAs I have nothing else to say because there's nothing that will convince you. So moving on

??? I'm talking about who makes money for universities. I thought that was your argument, that athletes make money for universities. I just compared them to others who bring in even more but are compensated less.

The fact of the matter is that when the UCLA and other bball players sued the NCAA a couple years ago, their case went to court and then to the NLRB rulings (both rulings contradicted the other) but in either case, the athlete's case was compared directly to that of the Brown U. TA's from a few years earlier. In the eyes of the law, the two classes of student were the same, when it comes to this question of generating revenue universities.

 

[navery12]

??? I'm talking about who makes money for universities. I thought that was your argument, that athletes make money for universities. I just compared them to others who bring in even more but are compensated less.

The fact of the matter is that when the UCLA and other bball players sued the NCAA a couple years ago, their case went to court and then to the NLRB rulings (both rulings contradicted the other) but in either case, the athlete's case was compared directly to that of the Brown U. TA's from a few years earlier. In the eyes of the law, the two classes of student were the same, when it comes to this question of generating revenue universities.

It's just a strange argument to make that 1 group not getting paid enough means another group shouldn't also be paid their fair value

 

[kobe]

what an idiotic rule. should schools have to forfeit a scholarship for 3 years if a player leaves after one?

 

[superjohn]

If you're comparing athletes and TAs I have nothing else to say because there's nothing that will convince you. So moving on

Hahaha, not worth it.

 

[upstater]

It's just a strange argument to make that 1 group not getting paid enough means another group shouldn't also be paid their fair value

Well, we'll differ on that. In the eyes of the law, one case was decided based on the treatment of the other class of students. These cases are tied together, and still undecided as they go through appeals. The fact of the matter is, universities take advantage of certain workers to keep costs low, even if they are students. And really students are much more protected than other workers (i.e. adjuncts).