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OT: Pats-Colts

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Deepster said:
I don't really understand. What does win % matter? They've won the AFC East 12 times. They get a bye and 1-2 home games to get to the Super Bowl. How does haven't that "automatic" advantage not help them accomplish 6 Super Bowl invites?
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What is with you people?

They win more against teams not in the AFCE.

How hard is that to understand?

They win more outside the AFCE because they are good.

this is one of the silliest points of contention I have ever heard.

It's crazy how bad mauconnfan and super john hate on the Patriots. it is absolutely pathological jealousy. at the very least, Mau's team has 2 well-deserved victories over the Patriots. I have no idea who superjohn roots for but I suspect it's the Jets.

As for being sensitive, it's just par for the course that when people will say absolutely anything to detract from a team that wins a lot--because of jealousy--we'll come back with facts. This morning I listened to radio as I was driving in, and there were multiple people commenting on the constant detractions from Brady's game as opposed to other successful QBs. Colin Cowherd actually had a long segment on it.

What it comes down to is jealousy.

Brady is making his 6th Super Bowl appearance. That's unprecedented. Bottom line.

And if they could beat up on the Bengals and Browns twice a year, it would have been the same. If they could have beaten up on the Jags, Titans and Texans like Peyton did, it would have been the same. If they could beat up on the Raiders, Chiefs and Broncos (who were awful until Peyton) it would be the same. Doesn't matter what division they are in. When you actually look at the fact that half the teams in both conferences are crappy, it's not a surprise at all that the Patriots have a better record outside the AFCE than inside.

During one stretch this year, the Patriots played Detroit, Green Bay, Denver, Detroit, San Diego, and Indianapolis in consecutive weeks (although not in that order) and they won all but one. An easy road? Hardly.
 
upstater said:
During one stretch this year, the Patriots played Detroit, Green Bay, Denver, Detroit, San Diego, and Indianapolis in consecutive weeks (although not in that order) and they won all but one. An easy road? Hardly.
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Arguably the toughest games they had in that stretch were the Jets at home on a Thursday night.
 
upstater said:
And if they could beat up on the Bengals and Browns twice a year, it would have been the same. If they could have beaten up on the Jags, Titans and Texans like Peyton did, it would have been the same. If they could beat up on the Raiders, Chiefs and Broncos (who were awful until Peyton) it would be the same. Doesn't matter what division they are in. When you actually look at the fact that half the teams in both conferences are crappy, it's not a surprise at all that the Patriots have a better record outside the AFCE than inside.

During one stretch this year, the Patriots played Detroit, Green Bay, Denver, Detroit, San Diego, and Indianapolis in consecutive weeks (although not in that order) and they won all but one. An easy road? Hardly.
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Sure. Those points hold water this year. But it doesn't erase the fact (FACT) that it's been easier for them get to 6 Super Bowls because of that automatic division title and homefield advantage plus a bye and only 2 games to get there. You seem to gloss over that and it's simply true.

The Jets were in back to back AFC championship games a few years back. They had to win 3 road playoff games, 3 weeks in a row to get to the Super Bowl. That's harder than winning 2 home games. Period.

Being in an easily won division for the majority (if not all) of his career definitely has a LOT to do with Brady's Super Bowl (and AFC championship) appearances.
 
Deepster said:
Sure. Those points hold water this year. But it doesn't erase the fact (FACT) that it's been easier for them get to 6 Super Bowls because of that automatic division title and homefield advantage plus a bye and only 2 games to get there. You seem to gloss over that and it's simply true.

The Jets were in back to back AFC championship games a few years back. They had to win 3 road playoff games, 3 weeks in a row to get to the Super Bowl. That's harder than winning 2 home games. Period.

Being in an easily won division for the majority (if not all) of his career definitely has a LOT to do with Brady's Super Bowl (and AFC championship) appearances.
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2001, 2004, 2006, 2013 AFC Championship Games on the road.
 
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Deepster said:
Sure. Those points hold water this year. But it doesn't erase the fact (FACT) that it's been easier for them get to 6 Super Bowls because of that automatic division title and homefield advantage plus a bye and only 2 games to get there. You seem to gloss over that and it's simply true.

The Jets were in back to back AFC championship games a few years back. They had to win 3 road playoff games, 3 weeks in a row to get to the Super Bowl. That's harder than winning 2 home games. Period.

Being in an easily won division for the majority (if not all) of his career definitely has a LOT to do with Brady's Super Bowl (and AFC championship) appearances.
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So the fact that the Patriots win more against OTHErR divisions means nothing to you?

How do you explain that?

especially when they are taking on the top 2 teams of the opposing divisions and not the bottom 2 teams. Shouldn't the Patriots record be worse for taking on the top 2 teams? Not better?

So, what division would you place the Patriots in that would make it tougher?
 
Deepster said:
Sure. Those points hold water this year. But it doesn't erase the fact (FACT) that it's been easier for them get to 6 Super Bowls because of that automatic division title and homefield advantage plus a bye and only 2 games to get there. You seem to gloss over that and it's simply true.

The Jets were in back to back AFC championship games a few years back. They had to win 3 road playoff games, 3 weeks in a row to get to the Super Bowl. That's harder than winning 2 home games. Period.

Being in an easily won division for the majority (if not all) of his career definitely has a LOT to do with Brady's Super Bowl (and AFC championship) appearances.
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FWIW, Peyton Manning has had plenty of byes and home playoff games and what is his record? Sure, it helps but it's not a free pass.
 
upstater said:
What is with you people?

They win more against teams not in the AFCE.

How hard is that to understand?

They win more outside the AFCE because they are good.

this is one of the silliest points of contention I have ever heard.

It's crazy how bad mauconnfan and super john hate on the Patriots. it is absolutely pathological jealousy. at the very least, Mau's team has 2 well-deserved victories over the Patriots. I have no idea who superjohn roots for but I suspect it's the Jets.

As for being sensitive, it's just par for the course that when people will say absolutely anything to detract from a team that wins a lot--because of jealousy--we'll come back with facts. This morning I listened to radio as I was driving in, and there were multiple people commenting on the constant detractions from Brady's game as opposed to other successful QBs. Colin Cowherd actually had a long segment on it.

What it comes down to is jealousy.

Brady is making his 6th Super Bowl appearance. That's unprecedented. Bottom line.

And if they could beat up on the Bengals and Browns twice a year, it would have been the same. If they could have beaten up on the Jags, Titans and Texans like Peyton did, it would have been the same. If they could beat up on the Raiders, Chiefs and Broncos (who were awful until Peyton) it would be the same. Doesn't matter what division they are in. When you actually look at the fact that half the teams in both conferences are crappy, it's not a surprise at all that the Patriots have a better record outside the AFCE than inside.

During one stretch this year, the Patriots played Detroit, Green Bay, Denver, Detroit, San Diego, and Indianapolis in consecutive weeks (although not in that order) and they won all but one. An easy road? Hardly.
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I promise you I'm not jealous of the Patriots, as a Giants fan beating the Patriots in two Super Bowls makes it impossible to be jealous. I also dislike Duke and Kentucky basketball but as a UConn fan it's impossible to be jealous because we own them both in big games. Much of what I dislike about the Patriots is how growing up in CT. and even with Mass friends I don't really remember any Patriots fans. Then they started winning and the next thing I knew the fans were coming out from everywhere. I have no problem with people jumping on a wagon when the team becomes great but the pretending that they were always die-hard fans is just annoying nonsense. I've seen it a lot with Red Sox fans as well but at least there really was millions of die-hard Red Sox fans back in the day.
 
superjohn said:
I promise you I'm not jealous of the Patriots, as a Giants fan beating the Patriots in two Super Bowls makes it impossible to be jealous. I also dislike Duke and Kentucky basketball but as a UConn fan it's impossible to be jealous because we own them both in big games. Much of what I dislike about the Patriots is how growing up in CT. and even with Mass friends I don't really remember any Patriots fans. Then they started winning and the next thing I knew the fans were coming out from everywhere. I have no problem with people jumping on a wagon when the team becomes great but the pretending that they were always die-hard fans is just annoying nonsense. I've seen it a lot with Red Sox fans as well but at least there really was millions of die-hard Red Sox fans back in the day.
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The reason Kraft was looking at Hartford was that over 25 percent of the season ticket holder base resides in Conn.

And I still can't for the life of me understand your points about the AFCE when the Patriots have done better against teams outside the AFCE.
 
husky91 said:
Luck is the most overrated player in the NFL. A compiler. I'd never trust him in a big game. Disaster today.
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Luck has carried a team that was supposed to be rebuilding to 3 playoff berths. That kid is everything they said he was and maybe a little more. Put team around him and he will be lights out. I look forward to years of Wilson vs. Luck...and I am a Raiders Fan.
 
The AFC East is their competition, when your conference has really sucked for more than a decade it makes it a whole lot easier to win your division, that should be pretty easy to understand. The Patriots do well against everyone because they are a great team but it doesn't negate the fact that it's been extremely easy winning the AFC East over the years because it's flat out bad.
"The reason Kraft was looking at Hartford was that over 25 percent of the season ticket holder base resides in Conn." If you really think this then we should just end the conversation here.
 
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superjohn said:
The AFC East is their competition, when your conference has really sucked for more than a decade it makes it a whole lot easier to win your division, that should be pretty easy to understand. The Patriots do well against everyone because they are a great team but it doesn't negate the fact that it's been extremely easy winning the AFC East over the years because it's flat out bad.
"The reason Kraft was looking at Hartford was that over 25 percent of the season ticket holder base resides in Conn." If you really think this then we should just end the conversation here.
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I don't think it. It's a fact. They had a significant fan base in Conn. before 2001.

Can your point in the 1st sentence be restated?

How does the AFC suck?

In the last 14 years, the Ravens won 2, Patriots 3, Colts 1, Steelers 2, that's 8 of the last 14 SBs. How is that weakness?

Chargers, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, and Colts have all been decent teams in the AFC. Who has been good in the NFC? Heck, for 5 or 6 years, the McNair Titans team was pretty good as well.
 
upstater said:
I don't think it. It's a fact. They had a significant fan base in Conn. before 2001.

Can your point in the 1st sentence be restated?

How does the AFC suck?

In the last 14 years, the Ravens won 2, Patriots 3, Colts 1, Steelers 2, that's 8 of the last 14 SBs. How is that weakness?

Chargers, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, and Colts have all been decent teams in the AFC. Who has been good in the NFC? Heck, for 5 or 6 years, the McNair Titans team was pretty good as well.
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"I don't think it. It's a fact." Come on this is just getting embarrassing now, Kraft had zero intention of ever moving to Hartford.
 
What is with all the Brady hype?
Guy hasn't won a super bowl in a decade.
He has been only average in winning half his chances in the SB. If he loses, this will put him in rare company for SB losses.














Any Pats fans' heads explode? Just kidding. Brady is great.But lay off Manning. It's ugly.
 
Rebuilding when? Other than this year they play in the worst division football. He is a very solid player, but so tired of hearing he is an elite player. No way. Their record against teams with winning records wasn't great. I just think he's vastly overrated. How many games like the last 3 NE ones, Dallas, Pitt, etc. do I have to watch of him to reach that conclusion.

He belongs in the same conversation as Ryan, Rivers, Stafford, not Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Manning.


MilliniumPrince said:
Luck has carried a team that was supposed to be rebuilding to 3 playoff berths. That kid is everything they said he was and maybe a little more. Put team around him and he will be lights out. I look forward to years of Wilson vs. Luck...and I am a Raiders Fan.
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Not a fan of patriots , hating on Brady; no problem. Reading this is totaling amazing with the reasons you idiots come up with to knock them down. Mau i love your input most of the time but your off your rocker on this one as well as some of you other guys. Not giving them and Brady and Bill credit cause you just don't like them is just not right and you all this. I respect most of you guys and gals on the yard but not giving credit where credit is due is beneath you . You're reasoning for putting them down is ignorant and you know it. They don't play in the AAC.
 
They have earned everything they have got. Nobody has given them anything. Earned it all on the field. Simple as that.
 
husky91 said:
Rebuilding when? Other than this year they play in the worst division football. He is a very solid player, but so tired of hearing he is an elite player. No way. Their record against teams with winning records wasn't great. I just think he's vastly overrated. How many games like the last 3 NE ones, Dallas, Pitt, etc. do I have to watch of him to reach that conclusion.

He belongs in the same conversation as Ryan, Rivers, Stafford, not Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Manning.
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Skip Bayless thinks he's overrated.
 
superjohn said:
"I don't think it. It's a fact." Come on this is just getting embarrassing now, Kraft had zero intention of ever moving to Hartford.
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I thought we were talking about Conn. Fans of the Patriots. jeez. It's a fact the fan base was big in Conn prior to 2001. You're now changing the subject to what was in Krafts mind?
 
dsturdy5 said:
2001, 2004, 2006, 2013 AFC Championship Games on the road.
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2001 - 1st playoff game was at home after a bye. AFC Championship was in Pittsburgh.
2004 - 1st playoff game was at home after a bye. AFC Championship was in Pittsburgh.
2006 - 1st playoff game was a wildcard game at home. Next rd in San Diego, AFC Championship in Indy.
2013 - 1st playoff game was at home after a bye. AFC Championship was in Denver.

Every season you listed, they won the division and got a bye in three of them.
 
I'm now changing the subject to what was in Krafts mind? "The reason Kraft was looking at Conn was that over 25 percent of the season ticket base resides in Conn." These are your words, you seem to have a habit of ignoring what you post in previous posts and tell me I'm making things up. I'll repeat what I said, I barely knew any Patriots fans growing up in CT. And when they got good I saw many of these same people saying they have always been die-hard fans. I'll also reiterate, Robert Kraft had zero intention of ever moving the Patriots to Hartford.
 
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Deepster said:
2001 - 1st playoff game was at home after a bye. AFC Championship was in Pittsburgh.
2004 - 1st playoff game was at home after a bye. AFC Championship was in Pittsburgh.
2006 - 1st playoff game was a wildcard game at home. Next rd in San Diego, AFC Championship in Indy.
2013 - 1st playoff game was at home after a bye. AFC Championship was in Denver.

Every season you listed, they won the division and got a bye in three of them.
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Yes and I took your post to imply that they won their division and got a bye and two home games as a result. If that wasn't the intent, my bad.

I would add to my list above that the only reason they hosted Baltimore after the 2012 season was because Baltimore beat Denver, otherwise they would have gone on the road five of nine times in the AFC title game.
 
dsturdy5 said:
Yes and I took your post to imply that they won their division and got a bye and two home games as a result. If that wasn't the intent, my bad.

I would add to my list above that the only reason they hosted Baltimore after the 2012 season was because Baltimore beat Denver, otherwise they would have gone on the road five of nine times in the AFC title game.
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No. My point is, they've had an easier playoff road over the years, if for nothing else...simply the fact that in many years they got a first round bye and/or a home field advantage for some/all of the playoffs....and that's because the Bills, Dolphins and Jets have been generally uncompetitive for a decade or more.

The Giants have 2 Super Bowls with Eli. In the 6 playoff games not counting the Super Bowls, they won 5 road games and didn't get a bye. Their 1 home game was wild card weekend in 2011 against Atlanta. For whatever its worth, the Patriots haven't had to overcome anything like that...mainly because of their division being a cakewalk.
 
superjohn said:
I'm now changing the subject to what was in Krafts mind? "The reason Kraft was looking at Conn was that over 25 percent of the season ticket base resides in Conn." These are your words, you seem to have a habit of ignoring what you post in previous posts and tell me I'm making things up. I'll repeat what I said, I barely knew any Patriots fans growing up in CT. And when they got good I saw many of these same people saying they have always been die-hard fans. I'll also reiterate, Robert Kraft had zero intention of ever moving the Patriots to Hartford.
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How old are you?

I became a Pats fan in the 1970s when they were always on NBC.

I lived in New Haven and we always traveled to Foxboro with friends in the 80s. My neighborhood around New Haven was mostly Giants fans but a half dozen were into the Patriots. In the late 80s and 90s the Patriots were awful, and NBC had lost the contract. Patriots games were suddenly not on TV in the state. Not until Parcells came in.

Conn. has the second most Patriots season ticket holders. If you came of age (ie turned 10 in the late 1980s) i can understand not seeing many Pats fans, but when they were really really good in the 1970s they had lots fans up until 1988.

By the way I was clearly responding to your claim of no Pats fans before the recent run. Kraft looked at Conn. Because it was the base forone quarter of the fans.
 
Deepster said:
No. My point is, they've had an easier playoff road over the years, if for nothing else...simply the fact that in many years they got a first round bye and/or a home field advantage for some/all of the playoffs....and that's because the Bills, Dolphins and Jets have been generally uncompetitive for a decade or more.

The Giants have 2 Super Bowls with Eli. In the 6 playoff games not counting the Super Bowls, they won 5 road games and didn't get a bye. Their 1 home game was wild card weekend in 2011 against Atlanta. For whatever its worth, the Patriots haven't had to overcome anything like that...mainly because of their division being a cakewalk.
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Umm... You are overlooking that whenever you win the division, you play the other division winners in the following season. So those cakewalks were invariably punctuated with games against the what should be stronger opponents. For unknown reasons they continually beat the Steelers, Colts, Broncos, and Chargers despite having so many uncompetitive opponents.
Of course that your precious Yets couldn't take advantage of their diet of cupcakes is another story.
 
Deepster said:
No. My point is, they've had an easier playoff road over the years, if for nothing else...simply the fact that in many years they got a first round bye and/or a home field advantage for some/all of the playoffs....and that's because the Bills, Dolphins and Jets have been generally uncompetitive for a decade or more.

The Giants have 2 Super Bowls with Eli. In the 6 playoff games not counting the Super Bowls, they won 5 road games and didn't get a bye. Their 1 home game was wild card weekend in 2011 against Atlanta. For whatever its worth, the Patriots haven't had to overcome anything like that...mainly because of their division being a cakewalk.
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Again this point makes absolutely no sense when the Patriots have a better record against the rest of the NFL than they do the AFCE. The Patriots lose 2 games a year against the AFCE (.667) but they go .750 against the rest of the league.

Every division has scrubs and one lead team. The only division with more than 1 good team is the north, with 2, but they play two teams, the browns and bungles, that have been even worse than the Bills, Jets and Dolphins.

Simple math makes your point weird.
 
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