OT: Notre Dame Was Really Good

[UcMiami]

WCBB has been a cyclical sport because of it keeping players for four years and freshman being able to have significant impact immediately. Pulling together a team may take a year or two of good recruits who then play together for three/four years leading to a 3-6 year span of high impact for a program before a possible lull before the cycle can repeat. Geno has beaten that pattern in spectacular fashion with only two stretches of 3 years each without a FF since 1995. And each of those stretches included 2 E8 losses and a S16 loss, so not much of a drop.

The changes to the WCBB rules regarding transfers, 5th year eligibility, and more stars contemplating early professional careers may disrupt the landscape. It will be interesting to see - while the freedom to transfer with immediate eligibility may hurt dominant teams it may also help by creating a second level of recruiting developed upper classmen to fill in holes in rosters.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

WCBB has been a cyclical sport because of it keeping players for four years and freshman being able to have significant impact immediately. Pulling together a team may take a year or two of good recruits who then play together for three/four years leading to a 3-6 year span of high impact for a program before a possible lull before the cycle can repeat. Geno has beaten that pattern in spectacular fashion with only two stretches of 3 years each without a FF since 1995. And each of those stretches included 2 E8 losses and a S16 loss, so not much of a drop.

The changes to the WCBB rules regarding transfers, 5th year eligibility, and more stars contemplating early professional careers may disrupt the landscape. It will be interesting to see - while the freedom to transfer with immediate eligibility may hurt dominant teams it may also help by creating a second level of recruiting developed upper classmen to fill in holes in rosters.

Good point. Getting a Ruth Riley and a Neile Ivey, or a Maya Moore joining Charde Houston, Brittany Hunter, Mel Thomas, Tina Charles, Kalana Greene, and Renee Montgomery means mini dynasty.

 

[Orangutan]

Sorry, but will have to disagree. Any team that has close wins during the regular season and gets blown out by 21 points in the NCAA final cannot be called dominant.

2000-2001 team had two single digit regular season wins, a regular season loss to Rutgers and a Big East tourney loss to UConn.

Not that different to 13-14 with two single digit regular season wins and a NCAA tourney loss to UConn.

The difference between 2001 and 2014 is that major injuries hit UConn in 2001 and the major injury hit ND in 2014.

 

[bballnut90]

Sorry, but will have to disagree. Any team that has close wins during the regular season and gets blown out by 21 points in the NCAA final cannot be called dominant.

2001-02 UCONN had a tie game with around 2 minutes to go against West Virginia IIRC. Does that close game make them not dominant?

And Notre Dame was missing an All-American starting center without a quality backup so I don't think it's fair to discredit them for that one game. Plus they went up against probably one of the top 3-4 teams of all time. Connecticut absolutely dominated Notre Dame in the paint without Achonwa there, with Stewart/Dolson combining for 38 points, 25 boards, 11 assists and 5 blocks. As a team UCONN won the rebound margin by 23. UCONN likely wins even with a healthy Achonwa but UCONN's game plan is markedly different with her there.

 

[baggerbob]

2001-02 UCONN had a tie game with around 2 minutes to go against West Virginia IIRC. Does that close game make them not dominant?

And Notre Dame was missing an All-American starting center without a quality backup so I don't think it's fair to discredit them for that one game. Plus they went up against probably one of the top 3-4 teams of all time. Connecticut absolutely dominated Notre Dame in the paint without Achonwa there, with Stewart/Dolson combining for 38 points, 25 boards, 11 assists and 5 blocks. As a team UCONN won the rebound margin by 23. UCONN likely wins even with a healthy Achonwa but UCONN's game plan is markedly different with her there.

And it was a single digit lead at the half. Natalie was the heart of that team, most plays went thru her, and she would make the correct pass like Dolson.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

2001-02 UCONN had a tie game with around 2 minutes to go against West Virginia IIRC. Does that close game make them not dominant?

And Notre Dame was missing an All-American starting center without a quality backup so I don't think it's fair to discredit them for that one game. Plus they went up against probably one of the top 3-4 teams of all time. Connecticut absolutely dominated Notre Dame in the paint without Achonwa there, with Stewart/Dolson combining for 38 points, 25 boards, 11 assists and 5 blocks. As a team UCONN won the rebound margin by 23. UCONN likely wins even with a healthy Achonwa but UCONN's game plan is markedly different with her there.

Your logic is as laughable as the 2003 National Championship game when heavily favored Tennessee was soundly beaten by a very young UConn team that had graduated 4 All American Seniors the year before. Pat Summitt’s most bitter loss I can ever remember.

 

[bballnut90]

Your logic is as laughable as the 2003 National Championship game when heavily favored Tennessee was soundly beaten by a very young UConn team that had graduated 4 All American Seniors the year before. Pat Summitt’s most bitter loss I can ever remember.

....so no response with any substance to what I posted aside from randomly bringing up something completely off topic?

 

[bbsamjj]

2000-2001 team had two single digit regular season wins, a regular season loss to Rutgers and a Big East tourney loss to UConn.

Not that different to 13-14 with two single digit regular season wins and a NCAA tourney loss to UConn.

The difference between 2001 and 2014 is that major injuries hit UConn in 2001 and the major injury hit ND in 2014.

I believe both of the 2000-2001 ND losses were by 1 pt? So they lost 2 games that year by a combined 2 points? (On the RU end, Tammy Sutton Brown was maddeningly inconsistent, but she always showed up against Ruth Riley).

 

[SimpleDawg]

I think they'll improve this year. Mabrey, Brunelle, Miles, and Westbeld is a core that should be better than 10-10. And they'll grow into better players next year as they become sophomore or juniors. I think a main issue is defense rather than offense, allowing 70 points per game. And there were some injuries. Won't be elite, but I think 13-5 or 12-6 in conference is a fair prediction.

They're in a better spot than we are, for sure. Seems like they can get some Top 30 recruits even after Muffet. Doesn't look like we'll get any Top 30 recruits as far as I can see, and we're down to pretty much Vic's remaining players as anyone I would count on next year besides Anastasia Hayes.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

I think they'll improve this year. Mabrey, Brunelle, Miles, and Westbeld is a core that should be better than 10-10. And they'll grow into better players next year as they become sophomore or juniors. I think a main issue is defense rather than offense, allowing 70 points per game. And there were some injuries. Won't be elite, but I think 13-5 or 12-6 in conference is a fair prediction.

They're in a better spot than we are, for sure. Seems like they can get some Top 30 recruits even after Muffet. Doesn't look like we'll get any Top 30 recruits as far as I can see, and we're down to pretty much Vic's remaining players as anyone I would count on next year besides Anastasia Hayes.

ND had a lot more history and prestige with their university than us. I don’t see us ever getting back to the level of FF. At least our baseball team winning this year takes a little of the bad taste out of my mouth from 2018.

 

[HuskyNan]

I think they'll improve this year. Mabrey, Brunelle, Miles, and Westbeld is a core that should be better than 10-10. And they'll grow into better players next year as they become sophomore or juniors. I think a main issue is defense rather than offense, allowing 70 points per game. And there were some injuries. Won't be elite, but I think 13-5 or 12-6 in conference is a fair prediction.

They're in a better spot than we are, for sure. Seems like they can get some Top 30 recruits even after Muffet. Doesn't look like we'll get any Top 30 recruits as far as I can see, and we're down to pretty much Vic's remaining players as anyone I would count on next year besides Anastasia Hayes.

If getting highly regarded recruits was all it took to be successful, Holly Warlick would have done a lot better than she did

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Don't think Stanford really "came back." They haven't lost their coach, and as we all know.... women's basketball is all about the coach. As long you don't lose your coach you can come back.

Funny how Nebraska, Xavier, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Cal Berk all used to be pretty good at women's basketball in the early 10s and some even before that. Recently Notre Dame, Tennessee, Mississippi State, Washington, and possibly Baylor with Mulkey gone...... and I wouldn't be surprised if Oregon fades away as well.

Just the strangest NCAA sport.

According to Coach Geno, "there are two kinds of coaches: those that recruit good players, and those that get fired."

 

[Fairfield Fan]

If getting highly regarded recruits was all it took to be successful, Holly Warlick would have done a lot better than she did

Was HW a major fail or what? Hard to play that poorly with that caliber of raw talent.

 

[HopJim]

If getting highly regarded recruits was all it took to be successful, Holly Warlick would have done a lot better than she did

These were classic coaching battles. During the time span where ND beat UConn 7 out of 8 games, you saw some of the best college coaching in history. McGraw was relentless in countering most of Geno's moves. It was only after Geno began to get his bigs, Stew and Dolson, more involved did UConn start their run. With the current set of bigs, wonder if Geno will bring back some of the offense from those days.

 

[Waquoit]

So do we know why they ran Muffet out of town all of a sudden?

 

[JellyBean]

That was an epic moment. That competitive level was off the charts!! It was great for women's basketball. It was great for both programs. Hopefully ND gets back to that level. They have a solid coach and I just hope that the AD, the fans, and their supporters are patient.

 

[SimpleDawg]

If getting highly regarded recruits was all it took to be successful, Holly Warlick would have done a lot better than she did

I'm just saying I think they'll be better, not that they'll reach the levels of Muffet.

 

[Dillon77]

So do we know why they ran Muffet out of town all of a sudden

I interupt this beach vacation (briefly) to make sure this "question" does not head in a strange direction.
- By "they," I presume you mean Fr. John Jenkins, president of ND, and Jack Swarbrick, the AD.
They didn't run Muffet "out of town" in a literal or figurative sense. MM was in a situation to tell Swarbrick when she wanted to leave and they touched base post-season. 2020 was the the time.
- She's still around, teaching a leadership course in the Mendoza School of Business (which Sam Brunelle has taken) and is very involved in various community projects. When Niele and staff were on the recruiting trail, she brought the team to work at food banks,

 

[Waquoit]

Considering her status as an all-time great coach, her good-bye was very underwhelming. She wasn't so much celebrated as thanked for her service. I still find it curious.

 

[HuskyNan]

Considering her status as an all-time great coach, her good-bye was very underwhelming. She wasn't so much celebrated as thanked for her service. I still find it curious.

Maybe it’s what she wanted. Despite the vitriolic comments from some UConn fans, she really is a nice person that’s more interested in promoting her team than herself. Sound like Geno and their mentor, Jim Foster.

I believe she was under some kind of stress in recent years that may have colored her behavior. Remember, Pat Summit’s odd behavior turned out to be Alzheimer’s. I’m NOT saying that’s the case here, just that people may want to be less judgdy because they may not have all the facts.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Maybe it’s what she wanted. Despite the vitriolic comment from some UConn fans, she really is a nice person that’s more interested in promoting her team than herself. Sound like Geno and their mentor, Jim Foster.

I believe she was under some kind of stress in recent years that may have colored her behavior. Remember, it turned out Pat Summit’s odd behavior turned out to be Alzheimer’s. I’m NOT saying that’s the case here, just that people may want to be less judgdy because they may not have all the facts.

I am not at all surprised by Pat Summit's bizarre behavior after hearing of her Alzheimer's diagnosis. Having seen one of my parents decline with Alzheimer's, with much of the behavioral and emotional changes coming even before the diagnosis, I'm not surprised. I don't think Summit would have acted as she did at all were it not for the disease. Not a cheap shot. Just coming from having seen how that disease works from close up and painful.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Considering her status as an all-time great coach, her good-bye was very underwhelming. She wasn't so much celebrated as thanked for her service. I still find it curious.

Back in friendlier days……..

 

[uconnfan68]

These were classic coaching battles. During the time span where ND beat UConn 7 out of 8 games, you saw some of the best college coaching in history. McGraw was relentless in countering most of Geno's moves. It was only after Geno began to get his bigs, Stew and Dolson, more involved did UConn start their run. With the current set of bigs, wonder if Geno will bring back some of the offense from those days.

Why do I always here ND wins 7 of 8, but never about their 12 losses in a row just before that? And the 38-13 record UConn has against them? So 37-5 without that little fluke? Does that sound like a rivalry? Do you think ND wants any part of UConn for the next few years?

 

[fireford]

Why do I always here ND wins 7 of 8, but never about their 12 losses in a row just before that? And the 38-13 record UConn has against them? So 37-5 without that little fluke? Does that sound like a rivalry? Do you think ND wants any part of UConn for the next few years?

You hear about it because a run like that against Uconn is unprecedented in the "golden era" of Uconn basketball. Uconn has had such dominance over most everyone it's the losses that are talked about. Uconn has beaten St John''s like 100 of their last 101 but you always hear how St John's ended their 99 home court winning streak in 2012. How many people remember Uconn beat Miss St by 50 in the 2016 tournament? Hardly anyone because you always hear about the 2017 FF loss that ended Uconn's 111 game winning streak.
Let's not also forgot ND has eliminated Uconn 5 times in the FF in the last 20 years. How many other teams can say that? Not just stinging losses because they were big games but the way they were lost. Then you supposedly had ND players shouting things into Uconn's locker room after big wins. Muffet dancing the jig and having testy exchanges with Geno through the media. Rivalries aren't always created through wins and losses but also through events that fuel animosity as well.

 

[uconnfan68]

You hear about it because a run like that against Uconn is unprecedented in the "golden era" of Uconn basketball. Uconn has had such dominance over most everyone it's the losses that are talked about. Uconn has beaten St John''s like 100 of their last 101 but you always hear how St John's ended their 99 home court winning streak in 2012. How many people remember Uconn beat Miss St by 50 in the 2016 tournament? Hardly anyone because you always hear about the 2017 FF loss that ended Uconn's 111 game winning streak.
Let's not also forgot ND has eliminated Uconn 5 times in the FF in the last 20 years. How many other teams can say that? Not just stinging losses because they were big games but the way they were lost. Then you supposedly had ND players shouting things into Uconn's locker room after big wins. Muffet dancing the jig and having testy exchanges with Geno through the media. Rivalries aren't always created through wins and losses but also through events that fuel animosity as well.

Well, it fueled animosity for me. Detest all things ND… and they used to be my dream school.