OT: NHL expanding by 4 teams!? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT: NHL expanding by 4 teams!?

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You believe the NHL is coming back; the Bruins will draw better and more $$ w/the Whalers and I am dense.

I hate to continue, simply outta fear we may end up morphing this in to a disucssion about Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy. I love your fantasy world, stay there.

Pass the bowl, and enjoy the return of the NHL to Hartford.
 
gioff23 said:
You believe the NHL is coming back; the Bruins will draw better and more w/the Whalers and I am dense.

I hate to continue, simply outta fear we may end up morphing this in to a disucssion about Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy. I love your fantasy world, stay there.

Pass the bowl, and enjoy the return of the NHL to Hartford.
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Once again, I NEVER SAID THE BRUINS WOULD SELL MORE TICKETS, I SAID THE TICKETS THEY SELL WOULD BE HIGHER PRICED. geez.
 
gioff23 said:
You believe the NHL is coming back; the Bruins will draw better and more w/the Whalers and I am dense.

I hate to continue, simply outta fear we may end up morphing this in to a disucssion about Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy. I love your fantasy world, stay there.

Pass the bowl, and enjoy the return of the NHL to Hartford.
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The Bruins cannot possibly draw any better. They were 100% sold out for each of their 41 regular season home games. They were 99.1% sold out overall.
 
The fact that Gioff views the WNBA and AA baseball as barriers to an NHL team's success in the marketplace invalidates anything he says on this subject.
 
TheDoggPound said:
The fact that Gioff views the WNBA and AA baseball as barriers to an NHL team's success in the marketplace invalidates anything he says on this subject.
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he forgot the Globetrotters and Disney on Ice.
 
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TheDoggPound said:
The fact that Gioff views the WNBA and AA baseball as barriers to an NHL team's success in the marketplace invalidates anything he says on this subject.
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While there may be some overlap (and by some, I mean so little it is statistically insignificant), I will guarantee that the WNBA and NHL are not going after the same target market.
 
And he so eloquently glossed over the fact that CT has grown by over 325,000 since 1997 which I attempted to point out but to no avail. I guess 325,000 is somehow insignificant in his mind. Even if 1% of those 325,000 are Whalers fans that 3,250 new paying customers that never existed when the team was here.
 
TheDoggPound said:
And he so eloquently glossed over the fact that CT has grown by over 325,000 since 1997 which I attempted to point out but to no avail. I guess 325,000 is somehow insignificant in his mind. Even if 1% of those 325,000 are Whalers fans that 3,250 new paying customers that never existed when the team was here.
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You're assuming that the team has lost no fans in this time.
People grew up on the Whalers because it was the only game in town. But since the 90s, it has been superseded by UConn MCBB, and will now face competition from UConn Hockey.
Not to mention that the population has aged significantly since then. That's true somewhat everywhere (baby boom), but moreso in Northern states.

The corporate community is also not what it was in the 70s.
 
vowelguy said:
You're assuming that the team has lost no fans in this time.
People grew up on the Whalers because it was the only game in town. But since the 90s, it has been superseded by UConn MCBB, and will now face competition from UConn Hockey.
Not to mention that the population has aged significantly since then. That's true somewhat everywhere (baby boom), but moreso in Northern states.

The corporate community is also not what it was in the 70s.
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It has been superseded because they're not around. Look I'm the biggest UConn fan there is but it's college at the end of the day (nothing wrong with that obviously, I love it), but a pro team should be #1 if only because it's a major boon for the region. And let's not fool ourselves, Hartford county sport fans employ a professional sports 1st mentality.

Once UConn Hockey moves to Storrs permanently they're going to be supported in large part by the students living on campus. I don't really see how that would hurt an NHL team's bottom line losing the college student demographic but even so wouldn't all this hockey going on just go to prove CT is a good hockey market? I would think so.
 
TheDoggPound said:
And he so eloquently glossed over the fact that CT has grown by over 325,000 since 1997 which I attempted to point out but to no avail. I guess 325,000 is somehow insignificant in his mind. Even if 1% of those 325,000 are Whalers fans that 3,250 new paying customers that never existed when the team was here.
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Not sure where you got 325k from either.
1997 Pop: 3.35 million
2013 Pop: 3.60 million
=> Net = 250k.

And nearly 1/3 of that (78k) is in Fairfield County. I can't imagine there's huge Whaler support all the way down there.
 
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TheDoggPound said:
Post a link if you would sir, I'd like to see for myself.
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The numbers are so integral to my job that we have them on an internal system at my fingertips.
I don't have a website link, but it'd be somewhere at www.census.gov.

Trust me, I know what I'm doing.
 
Columbus and Carolina identified as 2 other possible relocation candidates per Ken Campbell of THN.
 
TheDoggPound said:
And he so eloquently glossed over the fact that CT has grown by over 325,000 since 1997 which I attempted to point out but to no avail. I guess 325,000 is somehow insignificant in his mind. Even if 1% of those 325,000 are Whalers fans that 3,250 new paying customers that never existed when the team was here.
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Look if the Whale return I will be one of the first to buy season tix. BUT they aint coming back, period. When the NHL says expand by 4 and you're not even in the dialog, to say you're off the radar is a bit of an understatement. Its akin to Memphis making the argument for inclusion in the P5 - hey, we have to be right behind UConn, Cincy, BYU, UCF, Boise, SDSU and USF - we just gotta be!

My point on the other events was that when the Whale were a local success there was virtually no other game in town. There was no competition for discretionary dollars. Families only have so much money to spend on sports and entertainment. And a family just might consist of both males and females - and if the latter want to spend money on a women's BB game, that is money that the family could have otherwise spent on a hockey game. There are simply other options and less disposable income today. You can't possibly believe we have a local appetite for 40K to attend CFB games (and anyone w/hopes of P5 inclusion will tell you we need to expand to 50K), 12-15K for both BB teams, 5K for UConn hockey, and 7-10K for minor league BB. Not one of those teams sells out today, and you believe there are 20K folks lining up just hoping they get a chance to put down 4K on a season ticket, minimum (not counting parking and concessions) to see the Whalers?

Some might remember that the Whalers could not give tix away in the 90s. I worked across the street from the CC and could scalp excellent seats for a good opponent night of the game for less than face value. My company even had a plan that if you bought a season tix package, they'd matich it, for free. And still the place could not sell out. Sure 13k diehards went a night, but 13K is minor leagues. If they could sell out the old building they might still be here.

I love your optimism in thinking that we are Plan E for the NHL, post-expansion. I simply don't share it. The ship has sailed. Move on.
 
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No one is mistaking themselves into thinking we're an expansion market, we're not. We're a relocation market. I'll have to keep reiterating.

20k don't need to buy season tickets this isn't football (Winnipeg sold 11,000), UConn isn't drawing 12-15k for basketball, more like 10k and 7-10k aren't going to watch baseball either it's more like 5k on average.

Those 90's Whalers posted a .345 winning % from 90-97. And still 13k+ showed up as you say yourself. How's that bad? When they left there was 11,000 ST holders which was at the top of the league. And wasn't CT undergoing a local recession at the time?

Whatever the case, Bettman himself said fans were not the issue with the market, he also said had the salary cap existed in 1995-97 neither one of the Whalers, Nordiques or Jets would have moved. The business model back then for smaller markets was simply unsustainable, that's no longer the case in today's NHL.

They will be back. I don't know if it's going to be 2 or 3 or 5 years from now but they will be.
 
F the NHL Toronto will have two teams and we still get the bone
 
Hartford is the largest city (demo) in the country without a major league sports team. If Hartford had a viable stadium the city would be attractive to many current NHL teams. The city s also growing in population for the first time in decades.

Please, BCU had and has no power at all in the ACC. It does what it is told. They did not block UConn from anything, the trouble was elsewhere.

As far as that other Boston team, the Bruins, or any of the other closely located team like the Rangers, Islanders and Devils, a team in Hartford is a minor plus. It is a cheap away game. It's an easy away game for their fans. It increases interest in hockey and adds TV sets in the the Connecticut market. While none of those is compelling, there is no reason to block a team from moving to Hartford, there is almost no downside and a minor plus.

Bottom line? Build it and they will come....probably.
 
TheDoggPound said:
No one is mistaking themselves into thinking we're an expansion market, we're not. We're a relocation market. I'll have to keep reiterating.

20k don't need to buy season tickets this isn't football (Winnipeg sold 11,000), UConn isn't drawing 12-15k for basketball, more like 10k and 7-10k aren't going to watch baseball either it's more like 5k on average.

Those 90's Whalers posted a .345 winning % from 90-97. And still 13k+ showed up as you say yourself. How's that bad? When they left there was 11,000 ST holders which was at the top of the league. And wasn't CT undergoing a local recession at the time?

Whatever the case, Bettman himself said fans were not the issue with the market, he also said had the salary cap existed in 1995-97 neither one of the Whalers, Nordiques or Jets would have moved. The business model back then for smaller markets was simply unsustainable, that's no longer the case in today's NHL.

They will be back. I don't know if it's going to be 2 or 3 or 5 years from now but they will be.
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I love the optimism, Pound. Do I think the NHL will be back? No, I don't think so, but keep fighting the good fight. It doesn't hurt anything. It would be great to the see the Bruins locally again. It's not necessarily tough to get tix to the Garden. They are available, but getting up there is not necessarily easy. I'd support a Hartford team by going to Bruins and select other games.

What I don't understand is why folks are actively fighting against it. If the NHL doesn't come back, life will go on as it is. Status quo. contra positively (...I think), if the NHL comes back and one is not a hockey fan, how does that affect that person's life one iota? If one is a hockey fan, but not a fan of the local team? All the better, IMO. They'll get to go to games when their team comes to town. My other question is why actively lobby against the NHL and for the status quo, when the status quo is the civic equivalent of a toilet a bowl? Willing things to happen and get better does not work. One must take action.

I would prefer a new arena to be built with private dollars, but that is a discussion for another day. Additionally, if a new arena is going to be built downtown anyway (and it may be. The $35 Million is meant to put lipstick on a pig in the meantime), then it should be State of the Art, if not close to it. It's not as if a new arena would be built on spec. There are a number of first class organizations and programs already and will be ready to rent it out. Plus, it is Global Spectrum's job is to book the building on dates not occupied by the corner tenants.
 
Husky25 said:
What I don't understand is why folks are actively fighting against it. If the NHL doesn't come back, life will go on as it is. Status quo. contra positively (...I think), if the NHL comes back and one is not a hockey fan, how does that affect that person's life one iota? If one is a hockey fan, but not a fan of the local team? All the better, IMO. They'll get to go to games when their team comes to town. My other question is why actively lobby against the NHL and for the status quo, when the status quo is the civic equivalent of a toilet a bowl? Willing things to happen and get better does not work. One must take action.
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The pie is only so big. Every dollar spent on NHL hockey is a dollar not available for spending elsewhere in the local economy. Surely at least some of that will negatively impact UConn sports. At a time when the school is trying to convince the P5 that it has deep, moneyed support, anything that would weaken that should be viewed skeptically.
 
Husky25 said:
I love the optimism, Pound. Do I think the NHL will be back? No, I don't think so, but keep fighting the good fight. It doesn't hurt anything. It would be great to the see the Bruins locally again. It's not necessarily tough to get tix to the Garden. They are available, but getting up there is not necessarily easy. I'd support a Hartford team by going to Bruins and select other games.

What I don't understand is why folks are actively fighting against it. If the NHL doesn't come back, life will go on as it is. Status quo. contra positively (...I think), if the NHL comes back and one is not a hockey fan, how does that affect that person's life one iota? If one is a hockey fan, but not a fan of the local team? All the better, IMO. They'll get to go to games when their team comes to town. My other question is why actively lobby against the NHL and for the status quo, when the status quo is the civic equivalent of a toilet a bowl? Willing things to happen and get better does not work. One must take action.

I would prefer a new arena to be built with private dollars, but that is a discussion for another day. Additionally, if a new arena is going to be built downtown anyway (and it may be. The $35 Million is meant to put lipstick on a pig in the meantime), then it should be State of the Art, if not close to it. It's not as if a new arena would be built on spec. There are a number of first class organizations and programs already and will be ready to rent it out. Plus, it is Global Spectrum's job is to book the building on dates not occupied by the corner tenants.
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Very well put, I don't understand why many here lobby for the status quo either, it truly baffles me. We have a lot of advantages going for us but people tend to dwell on the cons (which are present for any market even a Qc/Seattle). It's sad because we're supposed to be the one's championing our own market yet we continually tear it down worse than those who don't even live here and don't want to see Hartford have a team again. It really makes us look pathetic as a sports market. Suffice to say, the self defeatist attitude and minor league mentality continues to be a mainstay in this state. Even so, I'm going to continue to beat the drum on this subject because I believe in us even if others won't.
 
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vowelguy said:
The pie is only so big. Every dollar spent on NHL hockey is a dollar not available for spending elsewhere in the local economy. Surely at least some of that will negatively impact UConn sports. At a time when the school is trying to convince the P5 that it has deep, moneyed support, anything that would weaken that should be viewed skeptically.
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UConn would probably be in a P5 conference by the time this came about. At least I would hope.
 
vowelguy said:
The pie is only so big. Every dollar spent on NHL hockey is a dollar not available for spending elsewhere in the local economy. Surely at least some of that will negatively impact UConn sports. At a time when the school is trying to convince the P5 that it has deep, moneyed support, anything that would weaken that should be viewed skeptically.
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Among other things (i.e. effects of a pro frThat presupposes that every portion of the pie is spoken for or that professional hockey is in direct competition with college sports. I don't think it is in either case. 1st UConn hockey is already in the best conference in the country. 2nd, IMO college hockey and pro hockey very much two different games., 3rd College hockey doesn't drive the bus. If the Big Ten came calling, UConn would be taking a step down! If the ACC came calling, hockey doesn't move at all.
 
I didn't say there was 100% overlap, but there definitely is SOME overlap in fanbases.
SOME of the money spent on NHL hockey is surely money not spent on UConn FB/BB/hockey.
 
TheDoggPound said:
Columbus and Carolina identified as 2 other possible relocation candidates per Ken Campbell of THN.
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Portland OR may have a say in this as well. They have an existing modern hockey-ready arena with 17,500 capacity for hockey, the Rose Gar...err Moda Center. It is a large Metro area (#24 MSA) with no nearby team. It has a junior hockey team that draws over 7,300 per game and holds the single game record by drawing over 19,000 for a junior hockey game.

If the NHL was smart they would place a team in Seattle and in Portland and have a ready-made rivalry. Unfortunately Paul Allen has a major say in this as owner of the arena and has so far been unmotivated.
 
The NHL is looking to expand it's market. Adding a second team in Toronto is overdue, but I'd prefer Hamilton. The Sabres probably just wouldn't allow Hamilton as much as other cities for now. Hartford won't expand it. But the Whalers logo does expand the clothes lines for the NHL.

I certainly do expect UConn hockey to become popular.
 
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