OT: NHL Coming Back to Hartford?

[whaler11]

I've driven from Seattle to Vancouver.

Saying Seattle shouldn't have a hockey team because of Vancouver is like saying they shouldn't have a basketball team because of Portland - it's the same distance and in the same country.

 

[Section138]

Hartford cannot support a major league franchise...simple as that.. I grew up with the Whale and would love for them to come back.. but they won't.. There's a reason they left.. and don't tell me about how many fans were there the last year... they were there because it was the last year.... they averaged about 13K a game, maybe and you just can't sustain that.. granted there were several front office issues with the draft and trades and a putrid team.. but in hockey you need to sell tickets.. period...

They'll bee in Seattle, Quebec, Hamilton... long before they're back in Hartford...

Hockey is my #1 sport... I'd love 'em to come back.. reality tells me they will not be back anytime soon..

 

[kingdobbs]

Doing a combo basketball/hockey arena would be a bad move. Our hockey attendance would look putrid because we will never fill the space the basketball team needs*, plus we would need an extra rink for practice space anyway (not to mention the needs of EO Smith and the Northeast Icedogs).

*Seriously, this is what a "hockey team in a basketball arena" looks like attendance-wise for everyone but BC:

 

[NavinRJohnson]

Doing a combo basketball/hockey arena would be a bad move. Our hockey attendance would look putrid because we will never fill the space the basketball team needs*, plus we would need an extra rink for practice space anyway (not to mention the needs of EO Smith and the Northeast Icedogs).

*Seriously, this is what a "hockey team in a basketball arena" looks like attendance-wise for everyone but BC:

Looks a bit empty to me...it's also intermission.

 

[junglehusky]

Detroit - http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/despite-bankruptcy-detroit-subsidizing-new-red-wings-stadium/

I tweeted these links out earlier but for others on the board who may be curious...

More on Detroit -
Detroit’s financial criminals leave evidence the size of a hockey stadium

Bloomberg story on Baltimore (with other cities mentioned) -
Rebirth Eludes Baltimore as Camden Reality Lags Promises

Attendance at the Baltimore park also fell after its initial surge. Since 2006, attendance has just once reached the 2.3 million a year that was projected in a 1988 study for the authority.

That places the team in the bottom half of the 30-team league. Attendance in 2012, a year the team made the playoffs, totaled 2.1 million people, up from 1.8 million in 2011. It rose to 2.3 million this year.

“We thought it would help hotels, bars and restaurants and strengthen that part of downtown,” Belgrad said. “At first we had sellouts and it lived up to the projections. But attendance dropped after that.”

In 1998, the authority opened what’s now M&T Bank Stadium at the site, after talking the NFL’s Browns into leaving Cleveland. The team, renamed the Ravens, won Super Bowls after the 2000 and 2012 seasons.

The authority often operates at a loss. It lost $12.3 million in 2012 and $5 million in 2011, even after state and local subsidies of $18.2 million and $22 million, respectively.

 

[kingdobbs]

Looks a bit empty to me...it's also intermission.

There aren't 10000 people hiding on the concourses during intermissions in Columbus, though. Ohio State hockey rarely draws higher than 5000 in a 17.5K seat arena, which they need because they get over 16K for hoops.

I cite Ohio State as almost the perfect object lesson for what we can expect hockey attendance to look like either using the XL Center as our long-term home, or in a newly-constructed hybrid basketball-hockey arena on-campus (Gampel is a non-starter for conversions): solid numbers, in an arena built way too big for that purpose, which make the overall fan appearance "empty".

UConn hockey is unlikely, even at its ceiling, to draw more than 1/3 the attendance of UConn basketball of either gender. I would *love* to be proven wrong, but the numbers don't look good for us. What that also means, beyond the empty look of the arena, is that we are going to be forced to put hockey games in time slots that aren't the *very* traditional Friday & Saturday at 7. Look forward to a lot of Saturday and Sunday afternoon games, and I would wager at least 2-3 Tuesday or Wednesday nights a year.

Then, we get into the problem of ice time. UConn is going to have to build a second ice sheet on campus anyway for practice because they're trying to fit in the men's team, the women's team, the EO Smith/Tolland/Windham co-op, and the Northeast Icedogs; at that point, the utility for having two ice sheets, one of which is constantly being used by a basketball team, diminishes (not to mention the expense of maintaining two ice sheets, especially if the two are physically dislocated from one another and the school has to maintain *two* refrigeration units).

 

[HuskyDogArt]

I hope the Whalers will be back. The Panthers do not get fans -- The Lightning does, thou. What I'd love to see is Bettman leaving the NHL office and someone with hockey sense to take over. Major League hockey will be back in CT.

 

[SouthronCross]

I tweeted these links out earlier but for others on the board who may be curious...

More on Detroit -
Detroit’s financial criminals leave evidence the size of a hockey stadium

Bloomberg story on Baltimore (with other cities mentioned) -
Rebirth Eludes Baltimore as Camden Reality Lags Promises

The Orioles were also a sorry-arsed franchise from the time Peter Angelos fired Davey Johnson as manager following their loss to the Indians in the 1997 ALCS, through the 2011 season. Fourteen straight losing seasons sapped a great deal of the passion the city had for the O's during that time. The last seasons were both winning ones, so, I am guessing that attendance will begin to edge up again.

Can't speak on Detroit's woes.

 

[BG79]

Some people have mentioned Seattle as a location and the desire to expand markets. However, two thigns about Seattle.....

1) Vancouver already has a team and isn't that far from Seattle.

2) Seattle has shown great fan support for the Seahawks and Sounders but I can't see them supporting a hockey team. They lost a NBA franchise and are supposedly getting it back. I guess the only reason a NHL franchise would like Seattle is because there will be a new arena built for the supposed NBA franchise?

Anyways, I'd love to see the Whalers come back but agree with @junglehusky that I don't wanna see CT burdened with a debt we don't need!

The thing about Seattle is it's not just about the city itself but it's about the pacific northwest as a whole. Idaho, Oregon, and a good deal of Montana all participate in the Seattle sports market. Those same markets do not identify with the Canucks. Washington state has a lot of WHL hockey teams in it. It is a hockey market without a local NHL team. They're really the most logical location for the next franchise.

 

[Adios]

I hope the Whalers will be back. The Panthers do not get fans -- The Lightning does, thou. What I'd love to see is Bettman leaving the NHL office and someone with hockey sense to take over. Major League hockey will be back in CT.

I never thought I would see it happen but Bettman's strategy to spread the game did succeed to a very good extent. Our goalie is from Arizona.

 

[BG79]

I never thought I would see it happen but Bettman's strategy to spread the game did succeed to a very good extent. Our goalie is from Arizona.

And that is exactly what having a team in Phoenix is all about. It isnt about collecting gate receipts, it's about cultivating talent in areas that otherwise wouldnt even think at all about playing hockey. These teams often have youth outreaches and camps and other things to get young people involved and their parents involved. It's a very long term strategy that doesnt produce results for years but when it does it makes the league much more stronger than say a second Toronto area team ever would.

I feel they pulled the rug out too early from Atlanta. That was an important sports market to be a part of and now there's no NHL presence in that area at all. They were a crap team in a market where fans never once considered Hockey as anything other than a strange niche sport. They obviously werent going to be popular at first but that would absolutely change over the years as the team became more established and the younger fans who have had exposure to the sport started entering the age where they could decide to attend.

 

[kingdobbs]

And that is exactly what having a team in Phoenix is all about. It isnt about collecting gate receipts, it's about cultivating talent in areas that otherwise wouldnt even think at all about playing hockey. These teams often have youth outreaches and camps and other things to get young people involved and their parents involved. It's a very long term strategy that doesnt produce results for years but when it does it makes the league much more stronger than say a second Toronto area team ever would.

I feel they pulled the rug out too early from Atlanta. That was an important sports market to be a part of and now there's no NHL presence in that area at all. They were a crap team in a market where fans never once considered Hockey as anything other than a strange niche sport. They obviously werent going to be popular at first but that would absolutely change over the years as the team became more established and the younger fans who have had exposure to the sport started entering the age where they could decide to attend.

The problem is, though, Bettman's "southern strategy" hasn't been inducing the development of localized feeder organs well enough. It's not getting colleges in those areas to start up varsity teams, or cities in those areas to start up junior league hockey teams, and only to a very limited degree is there success at getting cities to start up minor league teams.

Sure, UConn has a goalie out of Arizona who's doing very well for us...but we didn't recruit him out of Arizona, we recruited him out of Bismarck, North Dakota. We have a sophomore forward from Cary, NC (which is basically Hurricanes territory); he didn't play for the Cary Buccaneers before playing for UConn, he played for the Des Moines (IA) Buccaneers of the USHL.

Meanwhile we have players on the same UConn roster whose playing trajectories go Glastonbury-Springfield MA-Storrs. Or Boston-Salisbury CT-Storrs. Or Needham MA-Manchester NH-Storrs. Sun Belt hockey kids don't have that trajectory; they have to pursue opportunities in the Northeast, Midwest or Canada before they have a slim chance of coming back to a Sun Belt market to play professionally, and if their career end is predestined to be before he hits the NHL or a minor level or even a college varsity/major junior level, he won't even get to finish anywhere near his home place.

Getting those cities to become part of the system is as much a part of developing hockey in those areas as getting people in those big markets to part with their money or turn on the tube and watch the advertising-sponsored broadcasts. The NHL is much more interested in fostering the latter than they are the former.

 

[TheDoggPound]

I feel they pulled the rug out too early from Atlanta. That was an important sports market to be a part of and now there's no NHL presence in that area at all. They were a crap team in a market where fans never once considered Hockey as anything other than a strange niche sport. They obviously werent going to be popular at first but that would absolutely change over the years as the team became more established and the younger fans who have had exposure to the sport started entering the age where they could decide to attend.

The NHL didn't want to move them, the owners of the Thrashers essentially evicted the team out of their own building in favor of more open dates for concerts and other events. The only other option on the table for the league was to fold the franchise that's why the team was sold to Winnipeg in a hurry. Until Atlanta Spirit is gone from the marketplace there won't be a chance for another NHL franchise in Atlanta.

 

[TheDoggPound]

Hey guys 1st time poster don’t mind if I chime in here.

It might be the eternal optimist in me but I feel very strongly that Hartford has more than an outside shot at returning to the NHL and I have good reasoning behind why so bear with me: We all know Seattle & Quebec City are the front runners for expansion that much is clear but the good news for us comes in the fact that there’s a number of troubled franchises out there that could become portable in the near future. It’s known the Coyotes will have activated their out clause once the remaining 4 ½ years pass so they will defiantly be portable it’s just a matter of time, next in line behind them come Florida and Columbus among others. IMO It stands a very good chance we see the Coyotes + another current NHL franchise on the move by the end of the decade meaning we’ll likely see 4 new markets in the NHL by 2020. The relocation candidates are as previously mentioned: Hartford, Portland, TO2, Kansas City, Las Vegas & Houston.

Hartford’s main competition for relocation no doubt would have to be TO2 who’d obviously make a top 5 market in the league BUT if you think Hartford has a lot of red-tape TO2 could be a potential non-starter because a. the NHL might be content to stick at 8 Canadian teams (24-8 strikes balance) 2. Rogers won’t want a competitor operating in their backyard eating away at profits and 3. Markham recently voted no for a new arena leaving it up to Hamilton who face the same arena problems as Hartford (with the exception of the XLC’s renovations) combined with territorial complexities Hartford doesn’t have. So personally for those reasons I don’t see TO2 in the fold.

If my thinking is correct and TO2 isn’t workable well then the cupboard is left very, very bare in regards to EC markets especially after we see the Nordiques return to Quebec. At that point we can definitively say that Hartford is the next best and logical choice left. I think most would be in agreement that the NHL won’t be in Milwaukee any time soon or Atlanta for what would be the 3rd stint. Regarding those markets out West; Kansas City is a large risk and can’t seem to find an owner even with their new arena or we would surely have heard more from them when Atlanta was being sold, Houston’s chances rest solely on Les Alexander’s desire for a team (even then 2 teams in TX?) and Las Vegas is the biggest risk of all and I don’t think the NHL is in a position to watch a relocated/or expansion team flounder. That leaves us with just Hartford and Portland. Although I might be biased here I think Hartford should get the 1st crack at relocation and the chance to reclaim our team before we get cut in line by them, but if it works out where we don’t get the first relocatee there will likely be a 2nd chance for us after that.