OT: NHL Coming Back to Hartford? | The Boneyard

OT: NHL Coming Back to Hartford?

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CTMike

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I'd welcome it and support it, but it's a complete non starter in the current XL Center, renovations or not. At this point I'd rather see a new combined hoops/hockey Gampel replacement before a new XL center.
 

Uconnalliance

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It will never happen ever halfass fan base won't support it again.
 

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The return of the Whale would be awesome. Its difficult to see how it could really work though for a number of reason starting with the fact Seattle and Quebec seem to be very interested as well.

Btw, the Gov really wants a team in order to help stem the economic tide which increasingly has cities with pro teams winning the economic battle for white collar jobs of all kinds (research, media, science, finance, insurance, yada-yada).

Which NHL team would move? I suppose Florida is closest to packing up after Phoenix.
 
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I'd love it to happen but it just wont. There is zero incentive for the NHL to do that. They're at the point where they're looking to expand their fanbase to new territories in order to secure larger national TV contracts. That is why they pushed very hard to keep a team in Phoenix (and why it's the right thing for them to have done so). Seattle will likely see an expansion and to throw the Canadians a bone they'll likely stick a team back in Quebec City.

It's a real shame because I think the Whale couldve survived in today's climate where teams get their games broadcasted. Growing up I couldnt even follow the Whalers so I didnt identify with them. I was/is a Penguins fan and everyone around me was a Rangers or Devils fan. Rangers games were on MSG. It was a bad combination of an awful team and no exposure that doomed them. I did enjoy going to games in the Mall though. Going back there to see the Wolfpack as the XL center was just a monumental disappointment compared to how that place was in it's former glory.
 
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The return of the Whale would be awesome. Its difficult to see how it could really work though for a number of reason starting with the fact Seattle and Quebec seem to be very interested as well.

Btw, the Gov really wants a team in order to help stem the economic tide which increasingly has cities with pro teams winning the economic battle for white collar jobs of all kinds (research, media, science, finance, insurance, yada-yada).

Which NHL team would move? I suppose Florida is closest to packing up after Phoenix.
Florida is numero uno. Unfortunately, Phoenix is going nowhere anytime soon, during their recent sale, they got new owners and the NHL gave them a proposition that the league would cover any losses for the franchise for a certain period of time, so that franchise is (sadly) staying in Phoenix for the foreseeable future.

Agreed that Seattle is ahead of everyone on the list for a new franchise. I'm not sure about Quebec since it's a bit isolated up there. Some have speculated about a second franchise in the Toronto area. I can't fathom how that would work since everyone and their brother there is a Leafs fan, but who knows.
 
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It's so funny, someone posted this on the basketball board and I said there's no way it's happening and got roasted for it. Zero chance. Seattle, Hamilton Ontario, Quebec City, Kansas City would all be better options than Hartford. That said, I'd be pumped if it did happen and sure as hell support the team.
 

Dooley

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When I was younger, I was as big of a Whalers fan as they was. I got a paper route, for the most part, to fund paying for a 20 game plan as a 6th grader (God bless my parents who would drop my brother and I off and pick us up after the games). I split season tickets in high school with some friends and after Ed Johnston tore apart the solid nucleus of the 80s Whalers teams, I saw that place empty out quicker than a Paul Pasqualoni motivation speech. I used that opportunity to upgrade my seats…even though I always used to prefer to stand in the last row of the old section 305 so that I could cheer without being told to sit down or be quiet. After the Whalers left around the time that I grew old enough to be able to afford season tickets on my own, I held out hope that this area could get another NHL franchise. But after years and decades flipped us further and further away from those memories, so has my hope that we could lure another NHL franchise to Hartford. My reasons:

1. the night that Francis/Dineen/Ulf's numbers were retired before a Wolfpack game, there were 3,000+ empty seats. The perfect opportunity for old Whalers fans to rejoice and rehash the good old days while welcoming back three beloved hockey heroes back to the very arena that they were adored and many chose to stay home. Tickets were minor league prices so even if the most stubborn Whaler fan who has refused to support any franchise affiliated with the New York Rangers (I admit to being among them) could go and not break the bank if they planned on leaving during the Wolfpack game that followed (many did).

2. Howard Baldwin's "Whaler Night" was a complete and utter failure. Granted, it was colder than holy hell that day and night, but seeing the Rent look emptier than an early December game against 2-9 Memphis was absolutely deflating. It didn't help matters that Baldwin and the even organizers lied vehemently about how many tickets were sold leading up the event. I'm not sure if they were trying to artificially generate buzz for the day or what, but I can't begin to describe my level of disappointment to see 8,000 in the stands (at its peak).

3. Who is the current AHL franchise in Hartford? Is it the baby Rangers? Are they the baby Whale? Oh, now we're the Rangers again? The back and forth between stubborn old Whaler fans who won't support a Ranger affiliated franchise (like me) and diehard Wolfpack fans (yes, there are a handful of those) who have grown to dislike the Whalers because of the stubborn fans lack of support are creating quite a wedge within our own hockey demographic. What would happen if the NHL returned to Hartford? I'll tell you. The attendance will probably be pretty good for the first year or two but not 100% capacity. The games against the Rangers will be a 60/40 split of fans and the games against the Bruins will be the same. It will take another 20 years or so to get to a point that the young fanbase who grew up with the team (like I had grown up with the Whalers) will get old enough to use their disposable income to buy season ticket packages. And can we guarantee that the franchise will be supported through thick and thin (at major league prices) for 20 years? No. UCONN basketball, one of the top programs in the country, has its fair share of difficulty selling out the XL. And they are really good.

4. The XL Center is God awful. It was awful in the 80s and 90s and it is awful now. The arena itself hasn't seen any significant upgrades since the Whalers left. Even if the state shelled out $35M to improve concessions, create this in-arena bar area, spiffy up the bathrooms, and widen the corridors a couple of feet, the XL would still be a dump. The sight lines in the upper end seating is TERRIBLE for hockey (the near goal is cut off from view from the goal crease in) and the staircases direct the flow of fan traffic in a way that you can't see anything when there are folks coming and going to their seats. Not to mention, there are fan perches at the bottom of each staircase for those morons who don't care that they are blocking every view from fans sitting in the lower 200s.

5. Kansas City, Seattle, and Quebec all have brand spanking new arenas thanks to their local government's foresight (sort of like Louisville's foresight to expand Papa John's in their worst season in the Big East). They also have MUCH better fanbase reputation than Hartford. Quebec lost its team because of currency weakness, not because of no fans. Le Colissee was sold-out in years that the Nordiques won 8 games a year (usually 3-4 against the Whalers). Seattle has become the poster example for home field advantage thanks to the Seahawks. The Mariners are trying to tap into that energy with their signing of Robinson Cano. Kansas City is ALWAYS mentioned whenever somebody asks who is the most loyal and loud NFL fanbase. The Royals draw fairly well despite their decades of being terrible and college athletics (Kansas and Missouri) enjoy great home field/court advantage. Hartford? We can't sell out the XL Center for nationally ranked men's college basketball against ranked opponents and our attendance plunged this past miserable football season (I think this will change with Diaco though). While everyone remembers the decent attendance in the final season that the Whalers were in Hartford and the season ticket drive, nobody seems to recall those early 90s PLAYOFF games against Montreal that 5,000 fans showed up.

6. HDTVs/traffic/cranky wives. Whatever the reason, attendance to sporting events are declining all over the place. Different demographics face their own set of challenges to get fans to go to games as opposed to watching the game on TV. But even in perfect weather on a weekend, it's tough to convince people (especially around here) to pull themselves from their couches and comforts of home to traveling to go watch a game live and deal with traffic congestion and having a worse view (depending on your seats) than watching the game on TV. We're seeing this trend in football, a sport that plays a half dozen home games a year. We will DEFINITELY see the trend in hockey and its 40+ home games. Hartford just isn't a big enough city with the number of passionate and loyal fans of the city to pull enough fans to consistently go to games. UCONN works in some regard because "UCONN" unites the state. But the Hartford Whalers would not work because Fairfield County is owned the Rangers, and further north and east you go, you enter Bruins territory. We may not be all that far off where sports markets are judged more by TV ratings than attendance and games are played in controlled TV studio venues to maximize how it plays on TV.

To summarize this very long rant, I'd prefer giving the XL Center a facelift but instead of dumping $400M into building a new arena for this mythical NHL franchise, use that money to build a hockey/basketball arena on campus. Whether this means making some big structural changes to Gampel or starting from scratch, I don't care. But I think it's important for those programs to play on campus. I'd also like to see Rentschler Field get some money earmarked for a future expansion OR putting some money aside to prepare for an on-campus football stadium. There is nothing wrong with minor league hockey for the people that follow it. I just don't think there is enough money or support for a NHL franchise. I hope that money is put to better use.
 

whaler11

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I don't generally avoid Wolfpack games because they are a Rangers farm team - I avoid them because it's the AHL.

It would be like trying to get excited for UConn playing SMU, Tulsa and Tulane in basketball... If UConn was permanently banned from the NCAA Tourney.
 

whaler11

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The biggest problem Hartford has besides the obvious lack of a building is a big enough corporate environment to fill up luxury boxes and gain sponsorships.

Had the salary cap existed 20 years ago it might never have come to this.
 
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The biggest problem Hartford has besides the obvious lack of a building is a big enough corporate environment to fill up luxury boxes and gain sponsorships.

Had the salary cap existed 20 years ago it might never have come to this.

I think...well I know...the biggest problem is that they only produced 3 winning seasons in the NHL when in Hartford.
 
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Great post.




When I was younger, I was as big of a Whalers fan as they was. I got a paper route, for the most part, to fund paying for a 20 game plan as a 6th grader (God bless my parents who would drop my brother and I off and pick us up after the games). I split season tickets in high school with some friends and after Ed Johnston tore apart the solid nucleus of the 80s Whalers teams, I saw that place empty out quicker than a Paul Pasqualoni motivation speech. I used that opportunity to upgrade my seats…even though I always used to prefer to stand in the last row of the old section 305 so that I could cheer without being told to sit down or be quiet. After the Whalers left around the time that I grew old enough to be able to afford season tickets on my own, I held out hope that this area could get another NHL franchise. But after years and decades flipped us further and further away from those memories, so has my hope that we could lure another NHL franchise to Hartford. My reasons:

1. the night that Francis/Dineen/Ulf's numbers were retired before a Wolfpack game, there were 3,000+ empty seats. The perfect opportunity for old Whalers fans to rejoice and rehash the good old days while welcoming back three beloved hockey heroes back to the very arena that they were adored and many chose to stay home. Tickets were minor league prices so even if the most stubborn Whaler fan who has refused to support any franchise affiliated with the New York Rangers (I admit to being among them) could go and not break the bank if they planned on leaving during the Wolfpack game that followed (many did).

2. Howard Baldwin's "Whaler Night" was a complete and utter failure. Granted, it was colder than holy hell that day and night, but seeing the Rent look emptier than an early December game against 2-9 Memphis was absolutely deflating. It didn't help matters that Baldwin and the even organizers lied vehemently about how many tickets were sold leading up the event. I'm not sure if they were trying to artificially generate buzz for the day or what, but I can't begin to describe my level of disappointment to see 8,000 in the stands (at its peak).

3. Who is the current AHL franchise in Hartford? Is it the baby Rangers? Are they the baby Whale? Oh, now we're the Rangers again? The back and forth between stubborn old Whaler fans who won't support a Ranger affiliated franchise (like me) and diehard Wolfpack fans (yes, there are a handful of those) who have grown to dislike the Whalers because of the stubborn fans lack of support are creating quite a wedge within our own hockey demographic. What would happen if the NHL returned to Hartford? I'll tell you. The attendance will probably be pretty good for the first year or two but not 100% capacity. The games against the Rangers will be a 60/40 split of fans and the games against the Bruins will be the same. It will take another 20 years or so to get to a point that the young fanbase who grew up with the team (like I had grown up with the Whalers) will get old enough to use their disposable income to buy season ticket packages. And can we guarantee that the franchise will be supported through thick and thin (at major league prices) for 20 years? No. UCONN basketball, one of the top programs in the country, has its fair share of difficulty selling out the XL. And they are really good.

4. The XL Center is God awful. It was awful in the 80s and 90s and it is awful now. The arena itself hasn't seen any significant upgrades since the Whalers left. Even if the state shelled out $35M to improve concessions, create this in-arena bar area, spiffy up the bathrooms, and widen the corridors a couple of feet, the XL would still be a dump. The sight lines in the upper end seating is TERRIBLE for hockey (the near goal is cut off from view from the goal crease in) and the staircases direct the flow of fan traffic in a way that you can't see anything when there are folks coming and going to their seats. Not to mention, there are fan perches at the bottom of each staircase for those morons who don't care that they are blocking every view from fans sitting in the lower 200s.

5. Kansas City, Seattle, and Quebec all have brand spanking new arenas thanks to their local government's foresight (sort of like Louisville's foresight to expand Papa John's in their worst season in the Big East). They also have MUCH better fanbase reputation than Hartford. Quebec lost its team because of currency weakness, not because of no fans. Le Colissee was sold-out in years that the Nordiques won 8 games a year (usually 3-4 against the Whalers). Seattle has become the poster example for home field advantage thanks to the Seahawks. The Mariners are trying to tap into that energy with their signing of Robinson Cano. Kansas City is ALWAYS mentioned whenever somebody asks who is the most loyal and loud NFL fanbase. The Royals draw fairly well despite their decades of being terrible and college athletics (Kansas and Missouri) enjoy great home field/court advantage. Hartford? We can't sell out the XL Center for nationally ranked men's college basketball against ranked opponents and our attendance plunged this past miserable football season (I think this will change with Diaco though). While everyone remembers the decent attendance in the final season that the Whalers were in Hartford and the season ticket drive, nobody seems to recall those early 90s PLAYOFF games against Montreal that 5,000 fans showed up.

6. HDTVs/traffic/cranky wives. Whatever the reason, attendance to sporting events are declining all over the place. Different demographics face their own set of challenges to get fans to go to games as opposed to watching the game on TV. But even in perfect weather on a weekend, it's tough to convince people (especially around here) to pull themselves from their couches and comforts of home to traveling to go watch a game live and deal with traffic congestion and having a worse view (depending on your seats) than watching the game on TV. We're seeing this trend in football, a sport that plays a half dozen home games a year. We will DEFINITELY see the trend in hockey and its 40+ home games. Hartford just isn't a big enough city with the number of passionate and loyal fans of the city to pull enough fans to consistently go to games. UCONN works in some regard because "UCONN" unites the state. But the Hartford Whalers would not work because Fairfield County is owned the Rangers, and further north and east you go, you enter Bruins territory. We may not be all that far off where sports markets are judged more by TV ratings than attendance and games are played in controlled TV studio venues to maximize how it plays on TV.

To summarize this very long rant, I'd prefer giving the XL Center a facelift but instead of dumping $400M into building a new arena for this mythical NHL franchise, use that money to build a hockey/basketball arena on campus. Whether this means making some big structural changes to Gampel or starting from scratch, I don't care. But I think it's important for those programs to play on campus. I'd also like to see Rentschler Field get some money earmarked for a future expansion OR putting some money aside to prepare for an on-campus football stadium. There is nothing wrong with minor league hockey for the people that follow it. I just don't think there is enough money or support for a NHL franchise. I hope that money is put to better use.
 

junglehusky

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If some billionaire wants to pay for a building, I won't stand in the way. However if a billionaire wants the taxpayers to eat the bill for a stadium he gets for free, I'd rather some other city get stuck with the debt servicing for 50 years or whatever it is. CT doesn't need major pro sports. UConn can be the focal point.
 

whaler11

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I think...well I know...the biggest problem is that they only produced 3 winning seasons in the NHL when in Hartford.

I was talking about going forward
 
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Florida is numero uno. Unfortunately, Phoenix is going nowhere anytime soon, during their recent sale, they got new owners and the NHL gave them a proposition that the league would cover any losses for the franchise for a certain period of time, so that franchise is (sadly) staying in Phoenix for the foreseeable future.

Agreed that Seattle is ahead of everyone on the list for a new franchise. I'm not sure about Quebec since it's a bit isolated up there. Some have speculated about a second franchise in the Toronto area. I can't fathom how that would work since everyone and their brother there is a Leafs fan, but who knows.

Lots of NHL fans who want that second Toronto area team are extremely short sighted. They think everything is driven by gate receipts. I am a huge NHL fan and for the league to succeed it absolutely has to cultivate the southern part of the US in order to drive up the value for a national TV deal. Putting teams in already existing markets does nothing to grow the fanbase, it merely re-assigns them from one team to another. That is the biggest roadblock to Hartford getting a team back, it wont really create new Hockey fans and the market size is significantly smaller than a lot of areas that are currently missing a team. Add to it the lack of certainty that the franchise in Hartford would even be profitable enough to offset these downsides.

I think the ship sailed for Hartford getting a team when the Islanders moved to Brooklyn. That wouldve been the easiest solution and wouldnt of required a league expansion or a lot of infighting on tv territories.
 

UCFBfan

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Some people have mentioned Seattle as a location and the desire to expand markets. However, two thigns about Seattle.....

1) Vancouver already has a team and isn't that far from Seattle.

2) Seattle has shown great fan support for the Seahawks and Sounders but I can't see them supporting a hockey team. They lost a NBA franchise and are supposedly getting it back. I guess the only reason a NHL franchise would like Seattle is because there will be a new arena built for the supposed NBA franchise?

Anyways, I'd love to see the Whalers come back but agree with @junglehusky that I don't wanna see CT burdened with a debt we don't need!
 
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