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OT - Lochte

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This is what a responsible security guard does when confronting public urination! Anyway, it's Tampa, FL, so it might as well be Brazil.

Security guard arrested after firing shots in Ybor City garage

Notwithstanding my facetious statement, an overanxious armed Brazilian security guard could have escalated things very quickly over something stupid. The drunk Americans pissed on the side of a building and broke a door, and two Brazilian security guards held them at gunpoint (according to the Brazilian police). My point, the Americans were wrong and the Brazilians were more wrong, and it has nothing to do with culture, i.e., public urination is never okay (unless you really have to go).

Btw, there are a many "ugly Americans" on the BY. I am one of them. Big deal if we don't agree with something that is legal or illegal, accepted or unaccepted in another culture. For example, I have two daughters, and if I don't agree with how poorly women are treated in certain cultures, I will question it every time. I also have no interest in going to those countries nor do they want me there.
 
Tommyboy said:
Everyone keeps talking about the video of the actual damage/vandalism. Has anyone actually seen that? The Today Show showed the bathroom this morning and it looks no different every crappy gas station bathroom I have used.
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Saw footage of one of the athletes tearing down one of the posters but not of the bathroom itself. Doubt the security cameras go into the bathroom. Enough evidence and witnesses that I believe the gas station people.
 
Personally, I don't get it. What law did Lochte break?

Isn't there free speech in Brazil? He might have told a stupid lie but in America you can do that and run for president. Why does Brazil want him back? To charge him with telling an untrue story? That's a reason to extradite a guy from country to country. The whole thing is ridiculous.
 
DCHuskyFan said:
My guess is that from Lochte's doltish perspective (I can't stress enough how generally stupid he is), it was a shake down. Can you imagine if two American gas station security guards detained (with guns) 4 Brazilian swimmers over what amounted to a $50 payment for damages? Then the Brazilian government holds the swimmer's passports over $50 in damages. Did they agree to release the passports for that $10,800 payment or for a correctly worded admission? I would throw Lochte under the bus to get my passport back as well. However, I see the point of respecting the traditions of third world countries like Brazil. The solution is not to have big events in these countries. We get to go to Russia and Qatar for the next two World Cups, which are historically bastions of enlightenment.

This whole thing amounts to an attempt by Brazil to save face over what turned out to be a possible extortion attempt, rather than a robbery.
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I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that Brazil and Russia are third world countries. I'm not defending them as sites for the Olympics. Just don't understand the broad brush you are painting. Safety will always be an issue at events. The U.S. had the Boston Marathon and Centennial Olympic Park bombings. The Munich massacre might be the worst Olympic disaster.
 
Palatine said:
Personally, I don't get it. What law did Lochte break?

Isn't there free speech in Brazil? He might have told a stupid lie but in America you can do that and run for president. Why does Brazil want him back? To charge him with telling an untrue story? That's a reason to extradite a guy from country to country. The whole thing is ridiculous.
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Good thing you don't live in Brazil. You'd be locked up for life with the nonsense you spew.
 
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fleudslipcon said:
Athletes vandalized. Athletes confronted about vandalism. Athletes run away. Athletes stopped at gun point. Athletes forced to pay for damages. Athletes return safely to olympic village. One athlete fabricates a story. Press and world run with story. Story discovered to be false.

Yep. Brazil is the problem and not the athletes in this matter. I may not agree with the process that took place, but the real culprits were a bunch of drunken fools who in addition to their criminal mischief could not accept their culpability.

If this was America, the kids most likely would have gotten away. And if they were caught they would probably have faced the penalties that they faced in Brazil. Except it would have dragged on for a much longer time with some lawyer trying to extract a far larger civil penalty for damages to reputation.
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fleudslipcon said:
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that Brazil and Russia are third world countries. I'm not defending them as sites for the Olympics. Just don't understand the broad brush you are painting. Safety will always be an issue at events. The U.S. had the Boston Marathon and Centennial Olympic Park bombings. The Munich massacre might be the worst Olympic disaster.
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Don't know why you're defending Brazil so much in multiple posts, but safety *is* a concern over there. It was before the Olympics started and it still is now. Safety, zika and sewage water were the big three concerns heading into the Olympics, with zika and sewage water mostly disappearing from headlines recently.

My friend is actually there as part of a TV crew for a local news station covering the Olympics and their hotel room was robbed while they were away. And this was in a hotel that was highly rated with biometric scanning to enter the guest area of the building as well as keycard+biometric to enter the rooms. He also said that a French TV crew was also robbed in the same hotel.
 
fleudslipcon said:
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that Brazil and Russia are third world countries. I'm not defending them as sites for the Olympics. Just don't understand the broad brush you are painting. Safety will always be an issue at events. The U.S. had the Boston Marathon and Centennial Olympic Park bombings. The Munich massacre might be the worst Olympic disaster.
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What do bombings have to do with whether a country is classified as third world? It just means the country is a target. The biggest guy on the block usually is. The rule of law probably has more relevance to how a country is viewed. Stating that those countries were third world was only a half serious remark. I have lived in multiple countries from England to Italy and visited many more, and other countries simply aren't as comfortable as the United States, whether it is due to something as minor as water pressure to something major like raw sewer sludge in the bay where athletes compete. This my view, however, and I take no issue with folks that have a different view. As many problems as the U.S. has, I count myself lucky to be one of its citizens, although I'm sure folks from other countries feel the same way about their country.
 
fleudslipcon said:
Saw footage of one of the athletes tearing down one of the posters but not of the bathroom itself. Doubt the security cameras go into the bathroom. Enough evidence and witnesses that I believe the gas station people.
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Eh, I am not sure they are believable either. I trust more what the 3 other swimmers say when they are finally on American soil. Lochte will say anything at this point.
 
ihatepants said:
Don't know why you're defending Brazil so much in multiple posts, but safety *is* a concern over there. It was before the Olympics started and it still is now. Safety, zika and sewage water were the big three concerns heading into the Olympics, with zika and sewage water mostly disappearing from headlines recently.

My friend is actually there as part of a TV crew for a local news station covering the Olympics and their hotel room was robbed while they were away. And this was in a hotel that was highly rated with biometric scanning to enter the guest area of the building as well as keycard+biometric to enter the rooms. He also said that a French TV crew was also robbed in the same hotel.
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Not defending Brazil. They've got big problems. If the debate was about the value of economic benefits derived from Olympics I might have supported the position that for most countries the cost is not justified. If the debate is about crime in general I could have joined in the anti crime group.
But using those problems to justify an act that is wrong, because these are American medalists is ridiculous.
 
fleudslipcon said:
Massachusetts General Law. Chapter 269, Section. 13A
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It's unfortunate that Lochte's mom opened her mouth to the media, which prompted the Brazilian police to initiate an investigation. I don't think the swimmers ever had any intention of reporting anything. It probably just started out with Lochte embellishing a story he told to his mother. Once the police became involved he was probably swept up in the events. I wonder if Lochte's mom is as stupid as he is.
 
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Tommyboy said:
Eh, I am not sure they are believable either. I trust more what the 3 other swimmers say when they are finally on American soil. Lochte will say anything at this point.
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Well then the matter is settled.
 
DCHuskyFan said:
It's unfortunate that Lochte's mom opened her mouth to the media, which prompted the Brazilian police to initiate an investigation. I don't think the swimmers ever had any intention of reporting anything. It probably just started out with Lochte embellishing a story he told to his mother. Once the police became involved he was probably swept up in the events. I wonder if Lochte's mom is as stupid as he is.
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That's the salient point. This thing got out of hand the moment Lochte said something to his mother. He should have just let sleeping dogs lie.

She was just being a mother. Her reaction is normal to his story. He just couldn't keep his mouth shut. Your analysis of him is probably correct (perception of a shakedown vs. a justifiable remuneration for damages) but I'd add one point. He probably lacks the ability to admit he does things wrong. And maybe his mother was an enabler since he was a kid so he repeated the pattern as an adult and got the response from her he got all his life.
 
fleudslipcon said:
That's the salient point. This thing got out of hand the moment Lochte said something to his mother. He should have just let sleeping dogs lie.

She was just being a mother. Her reaction is normal to his story. He just couldn't keep his mouth shut. Your analysis of him is probably correct (perception of a shakedown vs. a justifiable remuneration for damages) but I'd add one point. He probably lacks the ability to admit he does things wrong. And maybe his mother was an enabler since he was a kid so he repeated the pattern as an adult and got the response from her he got all his life.
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Well, my mother would be very upset if something like this happened to me, but she wouldn't discuss it with the media, and certainly not without asking me first. Lochte's mom was probably looking for a little attention. I can't imagine that the apple fell far from the tree.
 
No one is mentioning the very important political point here...if I were the Brazilian government, during one of the most important events ever held here, and I got a report of locals robbing an innocent Olympic medalist at gun point during this very important event, and then learn that said medalist effectively lied, I can either let it go and have the whole world think badly of my country and its people, or I can make said medalist look like the tool that he is and save the reputation of country, its people, government, and Olympic organizers.

I think the choice is pretty simple if I were a Brazilian official.
 
That's the thing, Brazil's reputation is neither enhanced or damaged because of this on incident, because I have read plenty of other crime reports that were not fabricated. So, Brazil gets to state that it was right and the U.S. was wrong regarding Lochte, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. In the grand scheme of things, Brazil has just as many problems today as it did a week ago.
 
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DCHuskyFan said:
What do bombings have to do with whether a country is classified as third world? It just means the country is a target. The biggest guy on the block usually is. The rule of law probably has more relevance to how a country is viewed. Stating that those countries were third world was only a half serious remark. I have lived in multiple countries from England to Italy and visited many more, and other countries simply aren't as comfortable as the United States, whether it is due to something as minor as water pressure to something major like raw sewer sludge in the bay where athletes compete. This my view, however, and I take no issue with folks that have a different view. As many problems as the U.S. has, I count myself lucky to be one of its citizens, although I'm sure folks from other countries feel the same way about their country.
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Actually Brazil is at an important place in its history regarding the rule of law. Hopefully they come out of these recent political scandals with an improved judicial system. We'll find out.
I've lived in several states and locations and there is quite a variation in standards of living and running of systems. I'm not sure living in Flint, Michigan is better than living in better parts of England and Italy. There will be a generation of children that will be directly impacted by the consequences of inadequate systems and oversight. And the ripples will be felt for many not directly involved.

The US suffers from comparable or worse problems than other places in the world. WITH THAT SAID, I would agree with the position that in general, living in this country is my absolute preference. I just like to dissect things a little more than just making grandiose generalities.
 
DCHuskyFan said:
That's the thing, Brazil's reputation is neither enhanced or damaged because of this on incident, because I have read plenty of other crime reports that were not fabricated. So, Brazil gets to state that it was right and the U.S. was wrong regarding Lochte, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. In the grand scheme of things, Brazil has just as many problems today as it did a week ago.
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Not accurate imo. The tragedies in Aleppo have been going on for more than five years. Kids have been suffering severely. Certainly there are people who abhor the human tragedy taking place there as opposed to the politics that gets most of the focus. But most people put it out of mind until something like the picture of the five year old sitting in the ambulance hits a nerve. And then people react. Will they sustain the reaction. Highly doubtful. But during that reaction there is a change in the way people look at Syria that may or may not create substantive changes.

The same thing took place with the Lochte's false report. It crystallized the problem in Brazil. As an outsider I can support that crystallization because I think crime should be contained. But as a Brazilian trying to tackle their problems, and there are many trying to do this, just as there are many who are trying to prevent that from happening, the last thing I need is to deal with is another fire. If you think this is just about image, than your argument holds more validity. But if there is a genuine attempt to try and fix things then your argument loses validity.

I'm on the fence regarding this because for every person who likes to make a genuine commitment to improving the world there are people who are invested in keeping the status quo, or obsessed more about appearances than real quality of life, or so jaded in life that they want to destroy the world to make everyone equally miserable. And as I stated in a prior post, there appears to be a genuine attempt by people in Brazil to remove corruption from power. I hope they are successful. Lochte imo threw a big wrench into that outcome.
 
DCHuskyFan said:
Well, my mother would be very upset if something like this happened to me, but she wouldn't discuss it with the media, and certainly not without asking me first. Lochte's mom was probably looking for a little attention. I can't imagine that the apple fell far from the tree.
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I don't know Lochte's mom well enough to agree or disagree with you. She could be an attention grabber, a concerned mother, an overly reactive enabler. Who knows. The point is there were a slew of events that at any point could have kept this thing from getting headlines.
 
Palatine said:
That doesn't really answer any of my questions. What law did he break?
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At a minimum: filing a false police report. Free speech doesn't include lying to authorities investigating an potential crime. In addition to filing a false report, he could be charged with vandalism.

"Police have said authorities are considering charges of falsely reporting a crime and destruction of property, both of which can carry up to six months in jail or a fine."

Lochte apologizes for behavior in Rio incident
 
Palatine said:
Personally, I don't get it. What law did Lochte break?

Isn't there free speech in Brazil? He might have told a stupid lie but in America you can do that and run for president. Why does Brazil want him back? To charge him with telling an untrue story?
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Sweet you aren't really this dumb, are you?
 
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ihatepants said:
Don't know why you're defending Brazil so much in multiple posts, but safety *is* a concern over there. It was before the Olympics started and it still is now. Safety, zika and sewage water were the big three concerns heading into the Olympics, with zika and sewage water mostly disappearing from headlines recently.

My friend is actually there as part of a TV crew for a local news station covering the Olympics and their hotel room was robbed while they were away. And this was in a hotel that was highly rated with biometric scanning to enter the guest area of the building as well as keycard+biometric to enter the rooms. He also said that a French TV crew was also robbed in the same hotel.
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Heard of people down there for work being robbed between the airport and hotel. More than one also. Most people were warned not to bring anything of value with them. Definitely not a comforiting experience. But I've been surprised and happy that nothing more drastic has taken place.
 
Lochte’s lawyer, Jeffrey Ostrow, told USA Today on Friday that Lochte did not lie about being robbed at gunpoint. “That part of the story will never change,” Ostrow said. “We stand behind that.”

What a Spartacus.
 
Palatine said:
Personally, I don't get it. What law did Lochte break?

Isn't there free speech in Brazil? He might have told a stupid lie but in America you can do that and run for president. Why does Brazil want him back? To charge him with telling an untrue story? That's a reason to extradite a guy from country to country. The whole thing is ridiculous.
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What law did he break? From the statements of his teammates, at least vandalism and public urination. And quite possibly what you call free speech could be interfering with a criminal investigation.
 
13939332_1432811590068998_4763361418591586046_n.jpg
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=11bf2144c950e4f95e6dd88d33bb0129&oe=58413770
 
fleudslipcon said:
Not accurate imo. The tragedies in Aleppo have been going on for more than five years. Kids have been suffering severely. Certainly there are people who abhor the human tragedy taking place there as opposed to the politics that gets most of the focus. But most people put it out of mind until something like the picture of the five year old sitting in the ambulance hits a nerve. And then people react. Will they sustain the reaction. Highly doubtful. But during that reaction there is a change in the way people look at Syria that may or may not create substantive changes.

The same thing took place with the Lochte's false report. It crystallized the problem in Brazil. As an outsider I can support that crystallization because I think crime should be contained. But as a Brazilian trying to tackle their problems, and there are many trying to do this, just as there are many who are trying to prevent that from happening, the last thing I need is to deal with is another fire. If you think this is just about image, than your argument holds more validity. But if there is a genuine attempt to try and fix things then your argument loses validity.

I'm on the fence regarding this because for every person who likes to make a genuine commitment to improving the world there are people who are invested in keeping the status quo, or obsessed more about appearances than real quality of life, or so jaded in life that they want to destroy the world to make everyone equally miserable. And as I stated in a prior post, there appears to be a genuine attempt by people in Brazil to remove corruption from power. I hope they are successful. Lochte imo threw a big wrench into that outcome.
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