OT - Lochte

[ctchamps]

That's the thing, Brazil's reputation is neither enhanced or damaged because of this on incident, because I have read plenty of other crime reports that were not fabricated. So, Brazil gets to state that it was right and the U.S. was wrong regarding Lochte, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. In the grand scheme of things, Brazil has just as many problems today as it did a week ago.

Not accurate imo. The tragedies in Aleppo have been going on for more than five years. Kids have been suffering severely. Certainly there are people who abhor the human tragedy taking place there as opposed to the politics that gets most of the focus. But most people put it out of mind until something like the picture of the five year old sitting in the ambulance hits a nerve. And then people react. Will they sustain the reaction. Highly doubtful. But during that reaction there is a change in the way people look at Syria that may or may not create substantive changes.

The same thing took place with the Lochte's false report. It crystallized the problem in Brazil. As an outsider I can support that crystallization because I think crime should be contained. But as a Brazilian trying to tackle their problems, and there are many trying to do this, just as there are many who are trying to prevent that from happening, the last thing I need is to deal with is another fire. If you think this is just about image, than your argument holds more validity. But if there is a genuine attempt to try and fix things then your argument loses validity.

I'm on the fence regarding this because for every person who likes to make a genuine commitment to improving the world there are people who are invested in keeping the status quo, or obsessed more about appearances than real quality of life, or so jaded in life that they want to destroy the world to make everyone equally miserable. And as I stated in a prior post, there appears to be a genuine attempt by people in Brazil to remove corruption from power. I hope they are successful. Lochte imo threw a big wrench into that outcome.

 

[ctchamps]

Well, my mother would be very upset if something like this happened to me, but she wouldn't discuss it with the media, and certainly not without asking me first. Lochte's mom was probably looking for a little attention. I can't imagine that the apple fell far from the tree.

I don't know Lochte's mom well enough to agree or disagree with you. She could be an attention grabber, a concerned mother, an overly reactive enabler. Who knows. The point is there were a slew of events that at any point could have kept this thing from getting headlines.

 

[BlueMAB]

That doesn't really answer any of my questions. What law did he break?

At a minimum: filing a false police report. Free speech doesn't include lying to authorities investigating an potential crime. In addition to filing a false report, he could be charged with vandalism.

"Police have said authorities are considering charges of falsely reporting a crime and destruction of property, both of which can carry up to six months in jail or a fine."

Lochte apologizes for behavior in Rio incident

 

[Rocktheworld]

Personally, I don't get it. What law did Lochte break?

Isn't there free speech in Brazil? He might have told a stupid lie but in America you can do that and run for president. Why does Brazil want him back? To charge him with telling an untrue story?

Sweet Jesus, you aren't really this dumb, are you?

 

[8893]

Sweet Jesus, you aren't really this dumb, are you?

You know the answer to that, don't you?

 

[uconnfan68]

Don't know why you're defending Brazil so much in multiple posts, but safety *is* a concern over there. It was before the Olympics started and it still is now. Safety, zika and sewage water were the big three concerns heading into the Olympics, with zika and sewage water mostly disappearing from headlines recently.

My friend is actually there as part of a TV crew for a local news station covering the Olympics and their hotel room was robbed while they were away. And this was in a hotel that was highly rated with biometric scanning to enter the guest area of the building as well as keycard+biometric to enter the rooms. He also said that a French TV crew was also robbed in the same hotel.

Heard of people down there for work being robbed between the airport and hotel. More than one also. Most people were warned not to bring anything of value with them. Definitely not a comforiting experience. But I've been surprised and happy that nothing more drastic has taken place.

 

[Adios]

Lochte’s lawyer, Jeffrey Ostrow, told USA Today on Friday that Lochte did not lie about being robbed at gunpoint. “That part of the story will never change,” Ostrow said. “We stand behind that.”

What a .

 

[businesslawyer]

Personally, I don't get it. What law did Lochte break?

Isn't there free speech in Brazil? He might have told a stupid lie but in America you can do that and run for president. Why does Brazil want him back? To charge him with telling an untrue story? That's a reason to extradite a guy from country to country. The whole thing is ridiculous.

What law did he break? From the statements of his teammates, at least vandalism and public urination. And quite possibly what you call free speech could be interfering with a criminal investigation.

 

[UConnSwag11]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=11bf2144c950e4f95e6dd88d33bb0129&oe=58413770

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Not accurate imo. The tragedies in Aleppo have been going on for more than five years. Kids have been suffering severely. Certainly there are people who abhor the human tragedy taking place there as opposed to the politics that gets most of the focus. But most people put it out of mind until something like the picture of the five year old sitting in the ambulance hits a nerve. And then people react. Will they sustain the reaction. Highly doubtful. But during that reaction there is a change in the way people look at Syria that may or may not create substantive changes.

The same thing took place with the Lochte's false report. It crystallized the problem in Brazil. As an outsider I can support that crystallization because I think crime should be contained. But as a Brazilian trying to tackle their problems, and there are many trying to do this, just as there are many who are trying to prevent that from happening, the last thing I need is to deal with is another fire. If you think this is just about image, than your argument holds more validity. But if there is a genuine attempt to try and fix things then your argument loses validity.

I'm on the fence regarding this because for every person who likes to make a genuine commitment to improving the world there are people who are invested in keeping the status quo, or obsessed more about appearances than real quality of life, or so jaded in life that they want to destroy the world to make everyone equally miserable. And as I stated in a prior post, there appears to be a genuine attempt by people in Brazil to remove corruption from power. I hope they are successful. Lochte imo threw a big wrench into that outcome.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I had some indirect responsibility for our plant in Brazil. The stories of crime are legendary
Our international Marketing Manager was robbed on at least two occasions and the owners hired armed guards to accompany them even driving around your own property. They also owned a sugar plantation.
I've heard Brazil described by a citizen as 5% Switzerland and 95% Haiti
For those that don't get the anology there are 5% who control the wealth and 95% in poverty
Notice no middleclass at all.
But the story that sticks in my mind is from a meeting my company had there as told by our German Representatives
They witnessed an attempted mugging that failed because the assailant didn't realize the intended victim had a number friends nearby. They subdued the criminal but rather than turn him in , which they knew was a waste of their time they threw him In front of an on coming bus. That's called Brazilian Justice
Apparently Brazil is well aware of its lawless reputation and its effect not only on tourism but foreign investment.
They have a developing auto industry and have made a huge effort to attract more.
They obviously have labor advantages but without a viable rule of law it's a tough sell.
That's why their harsh treatment of high profile guys viewed as unfairly exploiting that criminal reputation Is taken so seriously.

 

[ctchamps]

I had some indirect responsibility for our plant in Brazil. The stories of crime are legendary
Our international Marketing Manager was robbed on at least two occasions and the owners hired armed guards to accompany them even driving around your own property. They also owned a sugar plantation.
I've heard Brazil described by a citizen as 5% Switzerland and 95% Haiti
For those that don't get the anology there are 5% who control the wealth and 95% in poverty
Notice no middleclass at all.
But the story that sticks in my mind is from a meeting my company had there as told by our German Representatives
They witnessed an attempted mugging that failed because the assailant didn't realize the intended victim had a number friends nearby. They subdued the criminal but rather than turn him in , which they knew was a waste of their time they threw him In front of an on coming bus. That's called Brazilian Justice
Apparently Brazil is well aware of its lawless reputation and its effect not only on tourism but foreign investment.
They have a developing auto industry and have made a huge effort to attract more.
They obviously have labor advantages but without a viable rule of law it's a tough sell.
That's why their harsh treatment of high profile guys viewed as unfairly exploiting that criminal reputation Is taken so seriously.

What type of plant? Were you in contact with people during Lula Da Silva's presidency?

 

[SubbaBub]

Saw footage of one of the athletes tearing down one of the posters but not of the bathroom itself. Doubt the security cameras go into the bathroom. Enough evidence and witnesses that I believe the gas station people.

There were witnesses inside a roadside gas station bathroom? Be wise enough to understand that you can't know the whole story and that a credible version of events has yet to be put forward.

Also be world enough to understand that the world isn't the bubble that is US life and that powerful forces were working to get it put of the news. Including one swimmer paying about 10k to make it go away, likely fronted by the USOC.

There are all kinds of scams run on tourists and tourists run afoul of locals everywhere there are tourists. Sometimes it's out of malice and sometimes genuine misunderstanding.

 

[ctchamps]

There were witnesses inside a roadside gas station bathroom? Be wise enough to understand that you can't know the whole story and that a credible version of events has yet to be put forward.

Also be world enough to understand that the world isn't the bubble that is US life and that powerful forces were working to get it put of the news. Including one swimmer paying about 10k to make it go away, likely fronted by the USOC.

There are all kinds of scams run on tourists and tourists run afoul of locals everywhere there are tourists. Sometimes it's out of malice and sometimes genuine misunderstanding.

There will never be a credible version. People will run with whatever makes them comfortable.
Totally aware they could have been scammed. Totally aware they could have been wrong from the start and compounded the wrong with deliberately creating the story to fit the narrative people like you and AZ have about foreign countries. And everything in between.

First day I got my drivers license I pulled out of a lot and hit a car. Minimal damage to both cars and the driver, a man in his 30's and the only person in the other vehicle, felt there was no need to worry about things. I was young and shaken and, not knowing the system or human behavior, agreed. Found out later from my insurance company he put in a claim for another vehicle that had damage and his son's broken arm. Lesson learned.

In the court of public opinion Lochte will not come out ahead from this incident. If he is actually guilty on all counts my hope for him is that he can grow from it. If he is partially innocent (there is camera footage of the advertisement being destroyed) and the rest is just something that got out of hand I hope he can understand his role as well as others and move on.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

I dont get what all the hoola is here. The dude commited a crime in another country. Maybe we would have handled it differently in the USA (depending on the person you ask, thats another topic though), but this guy was not in the USA. That is the key. Like it or not, you go to another country you respect their rules or pay for it they way they punish people. Maybe here you get probation or let off with a warning or fight it in court and get off free, any maybe there you lose an arm. Dont like their rules,dont go to their country. Plenty of people get killed by cops for doing far less in the USA than Lochte did in Brazil, he's lucky imo honestly. I've been out of the country and to third world countries many a times, you just dont do stupid stuff if you want to make it back to the USA.

 

[CL82]

Ummm, there is video of them vandalizing the bathroom. And now his teammates that were with Lochte are saying he instigated it all. Everyone has to understand that in many countries outside of the US, disputes are settled right there and then, usually with some agreed upon money exchange. Its much easier, faster and cheaper then to say, have a cop come out, write a report and then have to sue for damages - especially if its a just a mirror and a toilet in this case. Regardless, you don't go to another country (or some parts of the US) and do stupid things. Youtube all the bad things that happen to people who do stupid things overseas - he's lucky it didn't end up a lot worse for him and his buddies.

Link?

 

[businesslawyer]

This is what a responsible security guard does when confronting public urination! Anyway, it's Tampa, FL, so it might as well be Brazil.

Security guard arrested after firing shots in Ybor City garage

Notwithstanding my facetious statement, an overanxious armed Brazilian security guard could have escalated things very quickly over something stupid. The drunk Americans pissed on the side of a building and broke a door, and two Brazilian security guards held them at gunpoint (according to the Brazilian police). My point, the Americans were wrong and the Brazilians were more wrong, and it has nothing to do with culture, i.e., public urination is never okay (unless you really have to go).

Btw, there are a many "ugly Americans" on the BY. I am one of them. Big deal if we don't agree with something that is legal or illegal, accepted or unaccepted in another culture. For example, I have two daughters, and if I don't agree with how poorly women are treated in certain cultures, I will question it every time. I also have no interest in going to those countries nor do they want me there.

You couldn't be more wrong.

The swimmers trashed someone's store. The guard wasn't going to let them walk away before the matter was either worked out to everyone's satisfaction or the police came. If hoodlums trash a 7 Eleven in the Bronx, you really think it's "more wrong" for an armed guard to keep them there until the police come?

Look, people do worse things than what the swimmers did every minute of the day, but the fact that anyone is actually defending the behavior is mind blowing.

 

[DCHuskyFan]

You couldn't be more wrong.

The swimmers trashed someone's store. The guard wasn't going to let them walk away before the matter was either worked out to everyone's satisfaction or the police came. If hoodlums trash a 7 Eleven in the Bronx, you really think it's "more wrong" for an armed guard to keep them there until the police come?

Look, people do worse things than what the swimmers did every minute of the day, but the fact that anyone is actually defending the behavior is mind blowing.

Oh, I didn't know Lochte trashed the store, I couldn't tell from the video. I know you are a lawyer so you exaggerate for a living, but I thought he ripped a poster outside the bathroom wall. I said he was wrong in my previous post (indicates I am not defending him), but a gas station security guard pulling a weapon on someone who vandalized a poster and then holding them against their will is more wrong. And yes, I think an armed guard, in certain instances, may have justification for holding someone, but it would have to be a bank armed guard for example, and not an armed guard for a gas station or parking lot. Lochte's real crime was lying to the police after his idiot mother went to the media and stirred up the sh@t storm. So it wasn't a robbery, but if he told the truth, then it was likely extortion, and the world would view this much differently. Although they would still think he is one of the more unintelligent Olympians of all time.

 

[cordarone]

According to the journo who broke the story, it was just pure dumb luck that he was on a shuttle bus in Rio , struck up a conversation with a woman, who turned out to be Lochte's mother.
The whole mess unfolded from there:

She proceeded to tell me how terrible her stay had been. She’d broken her foot and now her son had been held up at gunpoint. I said ‘That’s terrible? Is he ok?’

She said, “‘Yes, he’s back at the village. I responded ‘Is he an athlete?’ To which she replied: 'Yes, and he is prone to big nights and that sort of stuff’.
‘He has bleached white hair, or grey hair, or blue hair, I don’t really know what it is.’

My cameraman asked, ‘Is your son Ryan Lochte?’ To which she said, ‘Yes, he is.’

The world found out about Ryan Lochte's story ... by accident

 

[NYC_HUSKY22]

Enjoy.

 

[CL82]

You couldn't be more wrong.

The swimmers trashed someone's store. The guard wasn't going to let them walk away before the matter was either worked out to everyone's satisfaction or the police came. If hoodlums trash a 7 Eleven in the Bronx, you really think it's "more wrong" for an armed guard to keep them there until the police come?

Look, people do worse things than what the swimmers did every minute of the day, but the fact that anyone is actually defending the behavior is mind blowing.

Mmmm, this USA Today story disputes some of the facts you seem pretty certian of Biz.

LINK