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OT - Lebron sticking up for Ray

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What comes to mind is Michael Corleone in Vegas trying to make a deal and then telling Fredo "Don't ever speak against the family again."
 
No two situations are the same, Ray was constantly on the trading block the last couple of years and he and Rondo hated each other. Garnett and Pierce loved their situation because they had security and always got the ball in their spots to be successful, Ray didn't have either of these things.
 
Agree with Ern. Needless to say, I love Ray. But it's funny how only the Celtics fans on this board can see the other side of things. I'm more of a Husky fan than I am a Celtics fan, but being on both sides of this I can see how ridiculously partisan both sides are. Celts fans think Ray's a jerk and Husky fans think he was horribly wronged by the Celts. Neither is true.

In any event, as to what LeBron said, it's a laughably terrible comparison. I understand sticking up for your teammate, but it's night and day.

The Celts asked PP and KG to leave. It was mutually beneficial and it was on good terms.
 
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Ray Allen would have to be an absolute idiot to have signed with the Celtics.
 
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specialisthusky said:
I had a job with one insurance company and later applied and went to a different one because I was unhappy at the first. Am I a cheater too?
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If insurance companies played for championships and the insurance company you went to had the best chance to win that championship, then yes, you are greedy. He left to a team for less money for obvious reasons it wasnt a coincidence he went to the best team to win it all.
 
aceboon said:
We are discussing Ray Allen's situation here, stop pulling out random scenarios that don't have anything to do with this. Lets look at all the reasons that led to Ray leaving. 1)Ray didn't like Rondo, who on the surface appears to be an ### and reportedly almost got into a fist fight with Doc Rivers, on top of the run ins he's already with Ray, KG, and Pierce. 2)Ray was included in trade scenarios that ultimately led to some bad blood between him and mgmt. 3)Ray was also having his role in the offense reduced, and was becoming reliant on a ball dominant PG who he didn't get along with. With all of these factors brewing, at the end of your career, why would you want to return to a situation that is no longer best for you, on top of playing on a team with no chance to win a title? He put himself in the situation he thought was best for him, as a grown ass man and someone who's put in 15+ years in the league, he earned that right.
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This sums it up perfectly.
 
7774 said:
Kembacity, I hope you are a little kid, or an adult with a legitimate mental disability.

I really, really need one of those things to be true.
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Nope, I'm a grown ass man who understands an awful comparison when I see one, and I hate the new NBA, where everyone flocks to about 10 teams tops and the others all have to wait for the perfect situation to be relevant again. It's awful, the NBA is mostly useless, the vast majority of teams have no shot, and they won't have a realistic shot for a decade.

If I was a little kid, I'd be a celtics fan while Ray was there and then applaud his moving to Miami so he could win more, and I'd be cheering from the rooftops for the Miami heat even though I was just rooting for their former rival. Kids don't have loyalty in their fandom, genius
 
Kembacity said:
Yeah, you're right, leaving as a free agent and going to your previous teams #1 rival is the exact same thing as being traded by the franchise to a different team and simply not making a big stink about it.

Do you understand the NBA? at all? a player going from 1 team to another isnt the same thing all the time. Case in point, Dwight Howard is a total jerk, Rudy Gay is not. They both changed teams recently... so how could it not be the same exact thing!?
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Do you know what a no trade clause is? Clearly, you do not. And maybe you are new to basketball or sports in general, but the Celts biggest rival is and shall always be LA. The Celtics had a rivalry with LeBron, if he leaves next year Boston fans won't remember which city the Heat represent.

Bottom line: KG is at best a hypocrite. He could have denied the trade and stayed loyal to Boston. ...which would have been stupid. Instead, he allowed the trade for one more realistic shot at a ring. So again, he did the same thing Ray did....just not lucky enough to end up with Lebron.
 
superjohn said:
Ray Allen would have to be an absolute idiot to have signed with the Celtics.
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This - a thousand times this.

Ray was traded on draft day, and was traded from two places he didn't want to leave (Milwaukee, Seattle). Why should he be loyal to Boston when they were phasing him out (as they had every right to)?

Ray also did not have many serious bidders for his services - it was just the Clips, Heat and Celtics at the start of the process. Then the Clips got Crawford, and the Celtics got Terry. That left Miami as his best option basketball-wise, leaving aside any issues with Rondo, etc.

I suppose he could have re-opened his search and seen what Sacramento or Toronto were offering, but he had a good fit.
 
All I got out of this thread is:

1. that some people think Ray is greedy for wanting to be happy because if he chose to be unhappy it would be better for the Celtics.

and

2. that other people question whether or not Miami is a major market. (Metro area 5,000,000+)

Consider me dumber for having read it.
 
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Kembacity said:
Nope, I'm a grown ass man who understands an awful comparison when I see one, and I hate the new NBA, where everyone flocks to about 10 teams tops and the others all have to wait for the perfect situation to be relevant again. It's awful, the NBA is mostly useless, the vast majority of teams have no shot, and they won't have a realistic shot for a decade.

If I was a little kid, I'd be a celtics fan while Ray was there and then applaud his moving to Miami so he could win more, and I'd be cheering from the rooftops for the Miami heat even though I was just rooting for their former rival. Kids don't have loyalty in their fandom, genius
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You would have switched teams as a kid and become a fan of the team you consider a rival??? Talk about fair weather, every team I'm a fan of I was a fan of them as a little kid. You stick with your teams through the good and bad, it's called being a fan.
 
Kembacity said:
I don't think that Ray Allen is a jerk for "leaving Boston"... I think he's a jerk because he already had a ring, and he left Boston for Miami. Its a low move, the same way Lebrons move of teaming up with Wade/Bosh was low. All the old guard said the same thing, if you are the best, you want to beat the best, not team up with the best so you don't have to face them anymore.
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Another misinformed opinion....please tell me which "star" ever won a title by themselves?....They all team up and have been doing it forever.

Jordan had Pippen( a top 50 player) plus Rodman, Kukoc, Grant, Paxon, etc....
Bird had McHale, Parrish, etc...
Kobe and Shaq...
Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Perkins, etc..
Duncan has had Robinson, Parker, Ginobli, , etc..
Olajuwon had Drexler
The Bad Boys Pistons


it goes on an on.

The only thing Lebron ever did wrong in going to Miami was announcing it on TV the way he did. He gave Cleveland 7 years to try and help him win a title and they rewarded him with Delonte West and Boobie Gibson.
 
Hoophound said:
All I got out of this thread is:

1. that some people think Ray is greedy for wanting to be happy because if he chose to be unhappy it would be better for the Celtics.

and

2. that other people question whether or not Miami is a major market. (Metro area 5,000,000+)

Consider me dumber for having read it.
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That being said, some NBA markets are certainly smaller than others. Take as an example Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, the nation’s #16 market. With its 1.581 million TV homes, Miami is nowhere close to New York (#1, 7.515M), Los Angeles (#2, 5.667M) or Chicago (#3, 3.503M). It is, however, barely ahead of Cleveland (#18, 1.526M), Orlando (#19, 1.453M), and Sacramento (#20, 1.409M).
In fact, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and company play in a smaller market than the Timberwolves (#15 Minneapolis has 1.754 million homes) and Pistons (#11 market Detroit has 1.884 million).
 
Once these guys are professionals the only loyalty these guys should have is to themselves not some dumb ass franchise or fan base. If they want money they should go and get it, if they'd rather have a championship they should find a place to go and get one.

How fans can't wrap their heads around that always amazes me.....it's a business that just has their most high profile employees in short pants versus suits.
 
Hey sour Celtics fans, I bet this hurts doesn't it?



Stfu and respect greatness. Especially husky greatness. Jesus what a disgrace these guys are.
 
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I'm not sure there has been a better thread that exemplifies perspective and it's relationship to a topic!
 
Penfield said:
That being said, some NBA markets are certainly smaller than others. Take as an example Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, the nation’s #16 market. With its 1.581 million TV homes, Miami is nowhere close to New York (#1, 7.515M), Los Angeles (#2, 5.667M) or Chicago (#3, 3.503M). It is, however, barely ahead of Cleveland (#18, 1.526M), Orlando (#19, 1.453M), and Sacramento (#20, 1.409M).
In fact, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and company play in a smaller market than the Timberwolves (#15 Minneapolis has 1.754 million homes) and Pistons (#11 market Detroit has 1.884 million).
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Something is askew there in terms of how TV market size is determined. Miami is the 4th largest urban area and I think the 7 or 8th largest metro in the country. It is a major market by any measure. TV markets can be misleading depending on what areas each so called market gets credited with.
 
uconndennis said:
Another misinformed opinion....please tell me which "star" ever won a title by themselves?....They all team up and have been doing it forever.

Jordan had Pippen( a top 50 player) plus Rodman, Kukoc, Grant, Paxon, etc....
Bird had McHale, Parrish, etc...
Kobe and Shaq...
Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Perkins, etc..
Duncan has had Robinson, Parker, Ginobli, , etc..
Olajuwon had Drexler
The Bad Boys Pistons


it goes on an on.

The only thing Lebron ever did wrong in going to Miami was announcing it on TV the way he did. He gave Cleveland 7 years to try and help him win a title and they rewarded him with Delonte West and Boobie Gibson.
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Stopped reading your post once I saw that to you, every player on the Jordan bulls roster was a "star"... You call kukoc a "star", really? As in... Really? A star??
 
As a Celtics fan, I've completely gotten over the Ray Allen thing. It hurt at the time, but he did what he thought was best for him, which I can respect. And as a bigger UConn fan that Celtic fan, I'm glad he has the biggest shot in NBA history to add to his resume.

With that said, LeBron really needs to shut the duckk up. Ray chose (as was his right) to leave the Celtics in free agency - Pierce and KG would have elected to finish their careers here if it were up to them. But it wasn't.

Side with Ray's decision all you want, but you're foolish if you side with LeBron here.
 
Hoophound said:
Something is askew there in terms of how TV market size is determined. Miami is the 4th largest urban area and I think the 7 or 8th largest metro in the country. It is a major market by any measure. TV markets can be misleading depending on what areas each so called market gets credited with.
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Ya, after doing some more reading it seems like Miami's market size is kinda debated. It's definitely not a small city. I just think that with out the recent success they wouldn't be really be considered a strong NBA market. People seemed to be surprised that LeBron didn't pick one of the huge ones like New York or Chicago.
 
MilliniumPrince said:
Do you know what a no trade clause is? Clearly, you do not. And maybe you are new to basketball or sports in general, but the Celts biggest rival is and shall always be LA. The Celtics had a rivalry with LeBron, if he leaves next year Boston fans won't remember which city the Heat represent.

Bottom line: KG is at best a hypocrite. He could have denied the trade and stayed loyal to Boston. ...which would have been stupid. Instead, he allowed the trade for one more realistic shot at a ring. So again, he did the same thing Ray did....just not lucky enough to end up with Lebron.
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"Hypocrite at best." Haha. Thanks for the laugh. "Same thing." Another chuckle there.

I get it, you love Ray and you don't like KG. You can do both those things and still understand that Ray wanted to leave Boston while KG didn't look for an escape valve until the team ASKED him to waive his no-trade clause.

I mean, this is simple stuff here.
 
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MilliniumPrince said:
Do you know what a no trade clause is? Clearly, you do not. And maybe you are new to basketball or sports in general, but the Celts biggest rival is and shall always be LA. The Celtics had a rivalry with LeBron, if he leaves next year Boston fans won't remember which city the Heat represent.

Bottom line: KG is at best a hypocrite. He could have denied the trade and stayed loyal to Boston. ...which would have been stupid. Instead, he allowed the trade for one more realistic shot at a ring. So again, he did the same thing Ray did....just not lucky enough to end up with Lebron.
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Its not loyalty if your team would rather have you leave. By waiving his no trade clause KG did what was best for the Celtics. Also, when did KG ever criticise ray for leaving? KG is one of the last few members of the "old" nba. He believes in rivalries, loyalty, and doesn't go hugging his opponents before the game. I don't have a problem with ray going but I could see how teammates could get emotional even if they knew that ray had a rough situation in Boston.
 
SheemTheDream said:
Its not loyalty if your team would rather have you leave. By waiving his no trade clause KG did what was best for the Celtics. Also, when did KG ever criticise ray for leaving? KG is one of the last few members of the "old" nba. He believes in rivalries, loyalty, and doesn't go hugging his opponents before the game. I don't have a problem with ray going but I could see how teammates could get emotional even if they knew that ray had a rough situation in Boston.
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You don't get it. KG's a thug. And Rondo's a world-class . The Celtics are jerks. Understand now?
 
Not sure why Ray owed Celtics anything. Did he pick to go there, thought he was traded. So he's on a team not of his choosing, where the guy with the ball isn't a guy you want to play with, the team would rather have someone else to replace you (based on numerous confirmed trade attempts) and you see yourself more now as role player with impact rather than a 35 minute guy. You look at landscape and take the best job you see available. Add money, location, coach, teammates and how your role could impact team and decide that's it. How you bitch about that is odd (in the screw loose odd meaning).
Why would any player go to another team when his contract is up, seems like could be many reasons and usually a combination. Odd to equate it to being greedy, so if Miami offered more money it wouldn't have been greedy? If they did offer more money would it be double greedy for money and championships? So I guess Reggie Jackson was greedy for signing with Yankees 'cause he got most money and a team most likely to be a champion?
 
By definition someone is greedy if they don't perform the way we prefer them to perform. But we are not greedy with this attitude!
 
superjohn said:
No two situations are the same, Ray was constantly on the trading block the last couple of years and he and Rondo hated each other. Garnett and Pierce loved their situation because they had security and always got the ball in their spots to be successful, Ray didn't have either of these things.
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You are, quite simply, out of your damn mind. Pierce was constantly the subject of trade rumors.
 
Kembacity said:
I don't think that Ray Allen is a jerk for "leaving Boston"... I think he's a jerk because he already had a ring, and he left Boston for Miami. Its a low move, the same way Lebrons move of teaming up with Wade/Bosh was low. All the old guard said the same thing, if you are the best, you want to beat the best, not team up with the best so you don't have to face them anymore.
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I can't understand your logic at all here, are you saying because ray already had a ring he should have just said ok I'm good and waited to retire? Your legacy in pro sports is determined by a lot of factors, but the number of rings you have is the most important. Regardless of who the player is, if they leave city A for city B, and city B wins the title, it was the right move regardless of any other factors.
 
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