OT: Landon Donovan

[intlzncster]

Over the past year, we average 2.2 goals per game when he plays and 1.4 when he doesn't. He is second on the USMNT in goals and first in assists over that time.

Over his last eight starts, he has 4 goals and 8 assists. Five of those eight games were against teams that qualified for Brazil; the others were against a Panama team that almost made it, a decent Jamaica team and El Salvador. We are 7-0-1 in those games.

In his most recent start, against Brazil-bound South Korea, he wore the captain's armband and got the game-winning assist.


He's years away from citizenship, since he was an illegal alien when he came here. The Revs had to jump through hoops just to keep him here. Only way we get him is if Uruguay says no thanks.

Nagbe is close - this winter I think. Zelalem could be announced any day now. Kekuta Manneh is, like Fagundez, years away.

Regardless, our future is incredibly bright. MLS academies are starting to churn out a ton of attacking talent.

Man I wish they could fast track these things. I know it's not exactly kosher, but I really want the USMNT to challenge at the top level internationally. I wonder were they to have the clout of the NBA/NFL/MLB, if they couldn't get the process sped up.

 

[Mots010]

Over the past year, we average 2.2 goals per game when he plays and 1.4 when he doesn't. He is second on the USMNT in goals and first in assists over that time.

I think that's a bit misleading, since he played what, six games in the Gold Cup against B teams, including Belize and Cuba.

 

[Matrim55]

I think that's a bit misleading, since he played what, six games in the Gold Cup against B teams, including Belize and Cuba.

Gold Cup games made up only 4 of those last 8 starts. Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama and El Salvador - all four of whom brought A- teams to the Gold Cup.

 

[Cheddie]

Klinsman was quite complimentary of Donovan in a noon press conference. Called him "very professional" several times, talked about his son making a "big mistake" with social media and said his decision was based on technical factors, which he wouldn't address. He said he asked Donovan to be ready in case someone was hurt so he could immediately step in, and Donovan agreed to this.

I don't follow the game close enough to have an opinion one way or the other, but I thought the coach handled himself very well during questioning.

 

[Matrim55]

Man I wish they could fast track these things. I know it's not exactly kosher, but I really want the USMNT to challenge at the top level internationally.

Over the past 15 years we've finished 4th at an Olympics, made the World Cup quarters once and Round of 16 once, finished 2nd in the Confederations Cup (2009) and third (1999).

The one time we failed to make the knock-out rounds at the World Cup, we still managed to get a point off of Italy - the only team in the tournament to do so as the Azzuri went on to win the title.

From 2008 through 2013, we were the only team to beat Spain in the knock-out round of ANY full international tournament. When we did so, we ended their 37-game unbeaten streak.

We have also surpassed Mexico, a top-15 team, as the No. 1 squad in the region.

So I ask you this: Haven't we already been challenging at the top level internationally?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I think challenging at the top level would mean not having to cite things like "taking a point off of Italy while going out in the group stages", but I defer to the experts on the board.

 

[Matrim55]

I think challenging at the top level would mean not having to cite things like "taking a point off of Italy while going out in the group stages", but I defer to the experts on the board.

So one bad tournament cancels out all top-level accomplishments? Guess we'll have to let France 2002 know, and both Spain and Germany from 2004.

Also, UConn isn't a top level team because we've been in the NIT twice in the last decade. Can't wait til we challenge at the top level like Duke!

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

So one bad tournament cancels out all top-level accomplishments? Guess we'll have to let France 2002 know, and both Spain and Germany from 2004.

Also, UConn isn't a top level team because we've been in the NIT twice in the last decade. Can't wait til we challenge at the top level like Duke!

Now you're getting silly to prove a (suspect) point. Do you think Spain and Germany cite tournaments where they took a point off a highly regarded team as evidence of their competitiveness. Likely not.

This happens every year. A certain contingent gasses everyone up with outsized expectations and then they go out with a whimper. At least as of yesterday you'll have your built in excuse.

 

[Matrim55]

Now you're getting silly to prove a (suspect) point. Do you think Spain and Germany cite tournaments where they took a point off a highly regarded team as evidence of their competitiveness. Likely not.

My point was that even at our worst, we are competitive enough to hang with the big boys. Even at our worst, we are not road kill. We are not favorites, but we are certainly challenging to break into the top dozen or so soccer nations.

And it's worth noting that every single country in the world - save for Brazil - has a similar blemish in the last 15 years. Hell, we were in the same Confeds Cup group as Italy in 2009: we advanced and they didn't.

This happens every year. A certain contingent gasses everyone up with outsized expectations and then they go out with a whimper. At least as of yesterday you'll have your built in excuse.

We've gone out with a whimper once in the last three World Cups. We've made it to the semifinals and finals in two of our last three Confederations Cups. We've won three of our last five Gold Cups.

You have bought into some silly narrative and are simply spouting it without checking your facts. You must love how ESPN covers Duke basketball, which is clearly the greatest program in all the land.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

How do you think Spain or Germany would fare in the Gold Cup? I think they'd probably struggle with Martinique and maybe draw with Canada. They'd get blasted by Haiti, no question.

I'm not buying into anything, but I appreciate the suggestion. I'm just observing what happens on the field. I don't doubt that the US can pack the box, score on a counterattack, and steal a win from some top flight squad. But I think we clearly have different understandings of what it means to compete at the highest level.

 

[ZooCougar]

You just spouted the basest, most thoughtless and banal conventional wisdom out there. Congratulations on being entirely unable to process information at all critically.

FWIW, I have no issue with any coach, foreign or domestic, who does a good job. I do have an issue with folks who think a coach has to have a European (or South American) accent to do a good job. It's this kind of bull that has our youth coaching ranks filled with failed Brits who don't know the first thing about rondos, third-line passing drills and other relatively basic ball control techniques.

Are there great foreign coaches in the US? Absolutely - the smartest one I know is Basque, a former youth director with Bilbao. He's great, and has been a true asset for me and US soccer as a whole. If I was starting a club tomorrow, he'd be my first hire.

But he's not a great coach because he's Basque; he's a great coach and developer of talent because he's a great coach and developer of talent. The same goes for the literally dozens of Americans throughout the US soccer (and the Canadians I've worked with as well).

Klinsmann is not a great coach. Lahm justifiably ripped him after the Bayern Munich stint, and there's a reason Sunil didn't have to fight off any other big clubs for the guy's signature. His team has less tactical identity or nuance than either of his predecessors', and he has now prioritized a German 4th division player over the most productive USMNT attacker of both all-time and the past year.

Here's one of those blunt MLS goals, btw:



Here's another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xq1BPww174

Here's a third:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQn9eXC0lkc

Those are all just from last week.

You are completely wrong about why Klinsmann left Munich. It was 100% political. He flat out didn't see eye to eye with management. In all my time in Germany, I never met one German who didn't think Klinsmann was first rate manager.

 

[ZooCougar]

Klinsman was quite complimentary of Donovan in a noon press conference. Called him "very professional" several times, talked about his son making a "big mistake" with social media and said his decision was based on technical factors, which he wouldn't address. He said he asked Donovan to be ready in case someone was hurt so he could immediately step in, and Donovan agreed to this.

I don't follow the game close enough to have an opinion one way or the other, but I thought the coach handled himself very well during questioning.

JK is smart enough to know that leaving LD off the 23 man roster would controversial and even divisive.

Is anyone here stupid enough to believe or bold enough to admit that they stupidly think the JK would knowingly risk all of the equity he has built up by leaving LD off for egotistical reasons? Good grief.

 

[Matrim55]

How do you think Spain or Germany would fare in the Gold Cup? I think they'd probably struggle with Martinique and maybe draw with Canada. They'd get blasted by Haiti, no question.

If Spain is so dominant, what does that say about the fact that we beat them the one time we played them in a competitive match?

Also, Spain just barely edged out Haiti 2-1 in a friendly last summer:

Playing the first of a two-city U.S. tour, Spain controlled the ball and made repeated attacks on goal throughout the first half and withstood a spirited second half response from Haiti.

"In the second half we reduced our pressure and intensity and Haiti responded,'' Spain head coach Vicente del Bosque said. "This was a good test for our team.''

Del Bosque, who made four substitutions in the second half, was not stunned by the close margin.

"Haiti is ranked 59 in FIFA, it's not as if we were playing number 208,'' del Bosque said. "They were a good first rival to help us adjust to the different time zone and to obviously improve our game.''

I'm not buying into anything, but I appreciate the suggestion. I'm just observing what happens on the field. I don't doubt that the US can pack the box, score on a counterattack, and steal a win from some top flight squad. But I think we clearly have different understandings of what it means to compete at the highest level.

Against Spain and Brazil, that is indeed how we've played.

When we beat Argentina a few years back, we came out and attacked. When we play Germany, we generally go out on attack. We ALWAYS attack vs. Italy.

When we've played Ghana the last two World Cups, we've definitely been the aggressor and they countered us out of the tournament. Against the likes of Slovenia and Algeria, we've carried the vast majority of play.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

If Spain is so dominant, what does that say about the fact that we beat them the one time we played them in a competitive match?

Also, Spain just barely edged out Haiti 2-1 in a friendly last summer:

Playing the first of a two-city U.S. tour, Spain controlled the ball and made repeated attacks on goal throughout the first half and withstood a spirited second half response from Haiti.

"In the second half we reduced our pressure and intensity and Haiti responded,'' Spain head coach Vicente del Bosque said. "This was a good test for our team.''

Del Bosque, who made four substitutions in the second half, was not stunned by the close margin.

"Haiti is ranked 59 in FIFA, it's not as if we were playing number 208,'' del Bosque said. "They were a good first rival to help us adjust to the different time zone and to obviously improve our game.''


Against Spain and Brazil, that is indeed how we've played.

When we beat Argentina a few years back, we came out and attacked. When we play Germany, we generally go out on attack. We ALWAYS attack vs. Italy.

When we've played Ghana the last two World Cups, we've definitely been the aggressor and they countered us out of the tournament. Against the likes of Slovenia and Algeria, we've carried the vast majority of play.

Let's hear your prediction.

 

[Matrim55]

Let's hear your prediction.

Brazil over Argentina in the final. Germany crashes out in the final 8, and Low gets fired, then hired by either PSG or Monaco.

The US plays three ugly games and doesn't advance. Chandler, Jones and Johnson all absolutely wilt in the heat.

Jurgen keeps his job and we lose to Mexico in next year's Gold Cup. At that point, he's fired and Sunil offers the job to Peter Vermes.

Jurgen goes on to become a motivational speaker and pitchman for Ronco Salad Shooters.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

The US plays three ugly games and doesn't advance.

Good enough.

 

[intlzncster]

FWIW, here's ESPN's take:

The inside story of Jurgen Klinsmann's decision to cut Landon Donovan

Is mentality the reason for Donovan's U.S. cut?

Klinsmann elects not to gamble on aging Donovan

Klinsmann had better know what he's doing

 

[ZooCougar]

Over the past 15 years we've finished 4th at an Olympics, made the World Cup quarters once and Round of 16 once, finished 2nd in the Confederations Cup (2009) and third (1999).

The one time we failed to make the knock-out rounds at the World Cup, we still managed to get a point off of Italy - the only team in the tournament to do so as the Azzuri went on to win the title.

From 2008 through 2013, we were the only team to beat Spain in the knock-out round of ANY full international tournament. When we did so, we ended their 37-game unbeaten streak.

We have also surpassed Mexico, a top-15 team, as the No. 1 squad in the region.

So I ask you this: Haven't we already been challenging at the top level internationally?

Perhaps, but if we played in UEFA, we probably wouldn't even qualify for the WC.

 

[Danzz]

Donovan has the rep of being an ass. Have no idea if this is true but if it is it may have had something to do with getting cut along with declining skills.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Donovan has the rep of being an ass. Have no idea if this is true but if it is it may have had something to do with getting cut along with declining skills.

Donovan is an odd duck, but multiple national teamers, including Howard, have come out publicly in recent to state that Donovan is respected by his teammates and has a professional attitude. As far as I can tell, that talk was media speculation from guys who want to look like they have the inside dope.

 

[Matrim55]

Perhaps, but if we played in UEFA, we probably wouldn't even qualify for the WC.

More nonsense

Donovan is an odd duck, but multiple national teamers, including Howard, have come out publicly in recent to state that Donovan is respected by his teammates and has a professional attitude. As far as I can tell, that talk was media speculation from guys who want to look like they have the inside dope.

It was a whisper campaign from Jurgen's people, amplified by his idiot kid on twitter.

I'll say this: Landon is definitely a weirdo.. He's never going to be the guy who gets the whole room to revolve around him (worryingly, there's nobody like that on this current team. That's significant).

But he is liked and respected. He's not an out cast like Feilhaber or EJ, both of whom were dropped because they couldn't play nice in the locker room.

 

[ZooCougar]

More nonsense


It was a whisper campaign from Jurgen's people, amplified by his idiot kid on twitter.

I'll say this: Landon is definitely a weirdo.. He's never going to be the guy who gets the whole room to revolve around him (worryingly, there's nobody like that on this current team. That's significant).

But he is liked and respected. He's not an out cast like Feilhaber or EJ, both of whom were dropped because they couldn't play nice in the locker room.

Nonsense how? How do we normally fare against European sides?

I would sooner hire a dude from Tasmania to coach the NY Giants, than I would hire and American to run the USMNT right now. It's just freaking common sense.

 

[intlzncster]

Lando's take:

"I think if I'm being judged solely on what happened in camp, then I absolutely deserve to be going to Brazil," he said.