OT: Landon Donovan Left Off USA WC Squad

[Carl Spackler]

Klinsmann's biggest problem probably with this U.S. squad, is that at age 49 he'll probably still be the best goal scorer on the field wearing the U.S. colors for this World Cup runaround and that includes a gimpy 32 year old Landon Donovan who by his own admission can't go more than a week or two straight without his body breaking down. Hopefully with younger players coming up, and his direction on players, we'll be able to develop some younger players into world class finishers. I think Clint Dempsey is a stronger player than Donovan, and will have had a better career by the time it's over. Altidore, Johanssen - these are promising young players that are developing in the world and need to become goal scorers in Brazil, and then in 2018, and 2022.

Donovan's time is over for the national team. I'm sure after the WC, when the next international cycle starts, He'll get an opportunity to play, but if he's prideful, he'll probably refuse and stick with his club teams from here on out. The timing is different slightly in the world cup, but Germany went through the same thing with Michael Ballack, only 2-3 years ago - a guy who you can find from time to time hanging around central CT restaurants.

 

[ZooCougar]

Obviously he's not PP. And I fully admit I'm not an expert. This one just looks personal and one doesn't need to be a tactical expert to get that.

It probably doesn't matter either way - the group is brutal and with or without him it's quite a mountain to climb.

Actually, you do need some long term insight on this to get the right perspective. Donovan had a world of talent, he could have been one of the biggest names in Europe. He was playing for Bayer Leverkusen when he was 18. But throughout his career he never really had the passion and drive to make it stick overseas.

I think that aspect has always been a turn off to JK. Imagine if Dirk Nowitzky came to the NBA, got homesick and then was only comfortable playing in German/Continental European leagues. It's not a totally perfect comparison, but it's close.

No doubt, LD was a great player for us. I enjoyed watching him in many MLS games I have attended and the few USMNT Friendlies I have seen in person over the years, in most cases he was always the best player on the field, but he could have been more...

 

[ZooCougar]

Klinsmann's biggest problem probably with this U.S. squad, is that at age 49 he'll probably still be the best goal scorer on the field wearing the U.S. colors for this World Cup runaround and that includes a gimpy 32 year old Landon Donovan who by his own admission can't go more than a week or two straight without his body breaking down. Hopefully with younger players coming up, and his direction on players, we'll be able to develop some younger players into world class finishers. I think Clint Dempsey is a stronger player than Donovan, and will have had a better career by the time it's over. Altidore, Johanssen - these are promising young players that are developing in the world and need to become goal scorers in Brazil, and then in 2018, and 2022.

Donovan's time is over for the national team. I'm sure after the WC, when the next international cycle starts, He'll get an opportunity to play, but if he's prideful, he'll probably refuse and stick with his club teams from here on out. The timing is different slightly in the world cup, but Germany went through the same thing with Michael Ballack, only 2-3 years ago - a guy who you can find from time to time hanging around central CT restaurants.

The only thing thing that bugs me slightly about the LD thing is that Jozy has been playing like garbage.

 

[whaler11]

Actually, you do need some long term insight on this to get the right perspective. Donovan had a world of talent, he could have been one of the biggest names in Europe. He was playing for Bayer Leverkusen when he was 18. But throughout his career he never really had the passion and drive to make it stick overseas.

I think that aspect has always been a turn off to JK. Imagine if Dirk Nowitzky came to the NBA, got homesick and then was only comfortable playing in German/Continental European leagues. It's not a totally perfect comparison, but it's close.

No doubt, LD was a great player for us. I enjoyed watching him in many MLS games I have attended and the few USMNT Friendlies I have seen in person over the years, in most cases he was always the best player on the field, but he could have been more...

So Klinsman is kind of dopey like Matt Williams complaining about Bryce Harper. Ignoring what he does because he doesn't go about it the same way as the manager.

 

[intlzncster]

JK, is not PGDL. He's built up enough equity to justify this omission.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone gets hurt or sick in the next few days and that he gets the call up anyways.

Maybe there will be an 'accidental' food poisoning or Tonya Harding situation, at the behest of JK. That would be the ultimate power play! Landon's still on the squad but now he knows that he's under JK's boot.

 

[SubbaBub]

I've railed on the LD omission enough and quite frankly, it's ruining my enjoyment of the run up to Brazil.

So as a coda to this argument, here is the only legitimate reason JK left LD at home.
JK didn't believe LD had the pace and endurance to go full throttle in the wide midfield for a full shift, be it 90m, 60m, 30m. This means tracking back, pushing the ball from the back, dribbling by people, and covering the fullbacks on the overlap. So, he put him at forward, were Jozy and Dempsey are locks, Johannsson is an obvious talent, pace, ball skills with a bunch of european goals (lousy dutch league aside) this season.

So it's down to LD vs. Wondo. On the one hand you have a guy who would give his left nut to be on that plane, who has scrapped, and clawed for every chance and will leave it all on the field when he is put in. OTOH, you have a guy at the end of his career, nothing left to prove, who skipped out for three months when JK was brought on and has a negative history with him. It's not that difficult a decision if you're JK.

Now, I think thats pure bollocks. LD is as fit and a much better player than Wondo, Davis, et al. So, the can't or won't do it argument doesn't fly with most.

 

[ZooCougar]

So Klinsman is kind of dopey like Matt Williams complaining about Bryce Harper. Ignoring what he does because he doesn't go about it the same way as the manager.

No, I think it's a combination of attitude, overall fitness and resiliency and not being good enough that did him in. If JK, felt that putting LD on the final 23 would mean a better team, then he would have made the cut.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The only thing thing that bugs me slightly about the LD thing is that Jozy has been playing like garbage.

Altidore will either shine or won't. Nobody will be able to say he wasn't given the opportunity. If you're a world class player, you can't ask for anything else.

 

[UConnDan97]

Donovan had a world of talent, he could have been one of the biggest names in Europe. He was playing for Bayer Leverkusen when he was 18. But throughout his career he never really had the passion and drive to make it stick overseas.

This is faulty thinking. His return to the states had nothing to do with lack of passion or drive. Unfortunately, Klinsmann would prefer his players be in Europe, even if they are on the bench there. He actually said so, when he was asked how he felt about Dempsey coming back to Seattle after so many years in England. And NOBODY has ever criticized Dempsey for a lack of passion. The same goes for Bradley coming back to Toronto from Italy. That dude embodies passion, too.

Those players didn't want to ride the pine. It was actually their passion and drive that made them come back (and in Dempsey's case, a lot of money)...

 

[ZooCougar]

I've railed on the LD omission enough and quite frankly, it's ruining my enjoyment of the run up to Brazil.

So as a coda to this argument, here is the only legitimate reason JK left LD at home.
JK didn't believe LD had the pace and endurance to go full throttle in the wide midfield for a full shift, be it 90m, 60m, 30m. This means tracking back, pushing the ball from the back, dribbling by people, and covering the fullbacks on the overlap. So, he put him at forward, were Jozy and Dempsey are locks, Johannsson is an obvious talent, pace, ball skills with a bunch of european goals (lousy dutch league aside) this season.

So it's down to LD vs. Wondo. On the one hand you have a guy who would give his left nut to be on that plane, who has scrapped, and clawed for every chance and will leave it all on the field when he is put in. OTOH, you have a guy at the end of his career, nothing left to prove, who skipped out for three months when JK was brought on and has a negative history with him. It's not that difficult a decision if you're JK.

Now, I think thats pure bollocks. LD is as fit and a much better player than Wondo, Davis, et al. So, the can't or won't do it argument doesn't fly with most.

I don't think he would be as resilient as Wondo.

 

[intlzncster]

Actually, you do need some long term insight on this to get the right perspective. Donovan had a world of talent, he could have been one of the biggest names in Europe. He was playing for Bayer Leverkusen when he was 18. But throughout his career he never really had the passion and drive to make it stick overseas.

I think that aspect has always been a turn off to JK. Imagine if Dirk Nowitzky came to the NBA, got homesick and then was only comfortable playing in German/Continental European leagues. It's not a totally perfect comparison, but it's close.

No doubt, LD was a great player for us. I enjoyed watching him in many MLS games I have attended and the few USMNT Friendlies I have seen in person over the years, in most cases he was always the best player on the field, but he could have been more...

I agree with most of this, though I might have worded the end of the first paragraph differently.

iirc, Landon was the MVP (whatever the award is called at any rate) of the U17 World Cup over Pavel Nedved. And we know what kind of a player Nedved turned out to be. [my memory is faulty so disregard that]

I personally believe Landon had a higher ceiling than he reached. If he had stayed in Europe the entire time, he would likely have been a far better player.

 

[intlzncster]

This is faulty thinking. His return to the states had nothing to do with lack of passion or drive. Unfortunately, Klinsmann would prefer his players be in Europe, even if they are on the bench there. He actually said so, when he was asked how he felt about Dempsey coming back to Seattle after so many years in England. And NOBODY has ever criticized Dempsey for a lack of passion. The same goes for Bradley coming back to Toronto from Italy. That dude embodies passion, too.

Those players didn't want to ride the pine. It was actually their passion and drive that made them come back (and in Dempsey's case, a lot of money)...

Can't fault the money move in the least. I would make that too. But if they want to be the best player they can be, you've got to stick in Europe. It's really similar to playing in the NBA vs the Euro Leagues.

 

[UConnDan97]

I agree with most of this, though I might have worded the end of the first paragraph differently.

iirc, Landon was the MVP (whatever the award is called at any rate) of the U17 World Cup over Pavel Nedved. And we know what kind of a player Nedved turned out to be. I personally believe Landon had a higher ceiling than he reached. If he had stayed in Europe the entire time, he would likely have been a far better player.

Landon is 32 years old. Nedved is 41. So that can't be correct...

 

[ZooCougar]

This is faulty thinking. His return to the states had nothing to do with lack of passion or drive. Unfortunately, Klinsmann would prefer his players be in Europe, even if they are on the bench there. He actually said so, when he was asked how he felt about Dempsey coming back to Seattle after so many years in England. And NOBODY has ever criticized Dempsey for a lack of passion. The same goes for Bradley coming back to Toronto from Italy. That dude embodies passion, too.

Those players didn't want to ride the pine. It was actually their passion and drive that made them come back (and in Dempsey's case, a lot of money)...

LD, came back from BL because he thought it was cold and dark in Germany. He wanted to live in Cali and hang out with his sister. That's a matter of record. He could have stayed in the EPL longer if it were allowed by the LA Galaxy, but it wasn't to be. We've had players spend their whole careers slogging it out in Europe. Donovan was better than all of them.

 

[UConnDan97]

Can't fault the money move in the least. I would make that too. But if they want to be the best player they can be, you've got to stick in Europe. It's really similar to playing in the NBA vs the Euro Leagues.

In Dempsey's case, you could make the argument, because he was a starter at Tottenham (and Fulham prior to that). In Bradley's case, you absolutely CANNOT make that argument. He barely saw the field for Roma. It's better for him, IMO, to get all of the reps and be at Toronto...

 

[UConnDan97]

LD, came back from BL because he thought it was cold and dark in Germany. He wanted to live in Cali and hang out with his sister. That's a matter of record. He could have stayed in the EPL longer if it were allowed by the LA Galaxy, but it wasn't to be. We've had players spend their whole careers slogging it out in Europe. Donovan was better than all of them.

And what part of wanting to be back in Cali with family has anything to do with lack of passion for the game???

If he lacked passion, he never would have played for Everton for two years during the MLS off-season, when most people are resting their bodies. It had absolutely ZERO to do with passion. Period.

 

[intlzncster]

I've railed on the LD omission enough and quite frankly, it's ruining my enjoyment of the run up to Brazil.

So as a coda to this argument, here is the only legitimate reason JK left LD at home.
JK didn't believe LD had the pace and endurance to go full throttle in the wide midfield for a full shift, be it 90m, 60m, 30m. This means tracking back, pushing the ball from the back, dribbling by people, and covering the fullbacks on the overlap. So, he put him at forward, were Jozy and Dempsey are locks, Johannsson is an obvious talent, pace, ball skills with a bunch of european goals (lousy dutch league aside) this season.

So it's down to LD vs. Wondo. On the one hand you have a guy who would give his left nut to be on that plane, who has scrapped, and clawed for every chance and will leave it all on the field when he is put in. OTOH, you have a guy at the end of his career, nothing left to prove, who skipped out for three months when JK was brought on and has a negative history with him. It's not that difficult a decision if you're JK.

Now, I think thats pure bollocks. LD is as fit and a much better player than Wondo, Davis, et al. So, the can't or won't do it argument doesn't fly with most.

Add to that the fact that Landon could never be considered a formidable defender at any stage of his career. JK clearly put an emphasis on fitness, speed and defense for this world cup squad, which is one of the reason Lando was slotted as forward only.

I don't know how you could leave Wondo off the squad though. He's scored a bunch of goals for the USMNT in the past year and was scoring at a decent clip in MLS. He's in form. It's a tough call.

I probably would have left off a midfielder and given that slot to Landon. He could play outside in a pinch.

 

[Carl Spackler]

No, I think it's a combination of attitude, overall fitness and resiliency and not being good enough that did him in. If JK, felt that putting LD on the final 23 would mean a better team, then he would have made the cut.

The word on Klinsmann going back to his German national team management, and his failure with Bayern Munich professional team, is that he's much more of a motivator, personality, chemistry kind of coach rather than a tactician/strategist. He's got a very simply strategy, and it's to pressure and attack. He's all about highest level of fitness and conditioning, and going fast on the field. Klinsmann was awful with the professional squad at Bayern Munich, but was explained b/c those guys on that team, are already motivated quite well by the millions they make, and can lose if they don't perform.

If, when, the U.S. national team gets to the point where we are playing for WC semi's and finals - and we are that skilled and technically proficient, a guy like Klinsmann probably won't be a fit for the U.S. program anymore as a coach. The Germans were totally rebuilding when Klinsmann took over their program and by the time they had become successful and proficient on the world level (to their standards again) , they didn't want him managing anymore and went to his assistant, who was the strategist.

With that in mind, Donovan probably didn't fit into Klinsmann ideal for team chemistry. His physical conditioning and fitness probably made the decision easy.

No matter what - it's made the WC interesting, and I'll watch the friendly tonight late if I can find it on TV.

 

[ZooCougar]

And what part of wanting to be back in Cali with family has anything to do with lack of passion for the game???

If he lacked passion, he never would have played for Everton for two years during the MLS off-season, when most people are resting their bodies. It had absolutely ZERO to do with passion. Period.

Simple, playing in the best league in the world, on one of the best clubs should have overridden the homesickness.

 

[intlzncster]

Landon is 32 years old. Nedved is 41. So that can't be correct...

Ok, cheers. My memory is clearly faulty.

 

[SubbaBub]

I don't think he would be as resilient as Wondo.

Not the poacher that Wondo is, but then again Wondo isn't handling the ball or setting up others like LD would.

Jk is hoping the playmaking is coming from Bradley (yes), Dempsey (I don't think so), Zusi (wide cross only) and whomever is playing on the left (no, unless its Johnson or Johannsson)

I think JK cut his field in half. Might as well put Shea out there to run around.

 

[ZooCougar]

The word on Klinsmann going back to his German national team management, and his failure with Bayern Munich professional team, is that he's much more of a motivator, personality, chemistry kind of coach rather than a tactician/strategist. He's got a very simply strategy, and it's to pressure and attack. He's all about highest level of fitness and conditioning, and going fast on the field. Klinsmann was awful with the professional squad at Bayern Munich, but was explained b/c those guys on that team, are already motivated quite well by the millions they make, and can lose if they don't perform.

If, when, the U.S. national team gets to the point where we are playing for WC semi's and finals - and we are that skilled and technically proficient, a guy like Klinsmann probably won't be a fit for the U.S. program anymore as a coach. The Germans were totally rebuilding when Klinsmann took over their program and by the time they had become successful and proficient on the world level (to their standards again) , they didn't want him managing anymore and went to his assistant, who was the strategist.

With that in mind, Donovan probably didn't fit into Klinsmann ideal for team chemistry. His physical conditioning and fitness probably made the decision easy.

No matter what - it's made the WC interesting, and I'll watch the friendly tonight late if I can find it on TV.

He failed at Bayern Munich because of politics plain and simple. Every German I have ever spoken with on the topic has indicated that to me.

He had good results with German National Team and oddly enough in the run to the World Cup he was accused of using too many "American" ideas.

 

[UConnDan97]

Simple, playing in the best league in the world, on one of the best clubs should have overridden the homesickness.

Oh dear God, please don't tell me that you just referred to Bayer Leverkusen as "one of the best clubs" in the world. Did that just happen???

 

[ZooCougar]

Oh dear God, please don't tell me that you just referred to Bayer Leverkusen as "one of the best clubs" in the world. Did that just happen???

Back then it was damn good club. That was well over a decade ago.

 

[intlzncster]

Not the poacher that Wondo is, but then again Wondo isn't handling the ball or setting up others like LD would.

Jk is hoping the playmaking is coming from Bradley (yes), Dempsey (I don't think so), Zusi (wide cross only) and whomever is playing on the left (no, unless its Johnson or Johannsson)

I think JK cut his field in half. Might as well put Shea out there to run around.

Lando wasn't playing 90 minutes in the heat. No way. So it's not remotely 'half'.

 

[UConnDan97]

Back then it was damn good club. That was well over a decade ago.

Back then, they were a perennial UEFA Cup team. Certainly nothing to shake a stick at, but also certainly not one of the top clubs in the world by any stretch of the imagination.

In LD's last year there, they were in the UEFA Cup (2005, the "lower" European tourney). They went again in 2006 and 2007, and then missed out of European play in 2008 and 2009. I'm too lazy to look up the rest of the years. Would they have qualified for European play with Landon? Who knows. But...there's a difference between a solid club and one of the best in the world...

 

[Carl Spackler]

He failed at Bayern Munich because of politics plain and simple. Every German I have ever spoken with on the topic has indicated that to me.

He had good results with German National Team and oddly enough in the run to the World Cup he was accused of using too many "American" ideas.

Same kind of politics that make guys like Steve Spurrier and Nick Saban go back to college from the pros.

 

[intlzncster]

In Dempsey's case, you could make the argument, because he was a starter at Tottenham (and Fulham prior to that). In Bradley's case, you absolutely CANNOT make that argument. He barely saw the field for Roma. It's better for him, IMO, to get all of the reps and be at Toronto...

I would simply say that Bradley should have gone to another Euro club (either on loan or outright). Not always up to the player of course.

 

[Waquoit]

I would simply say that Bradley should have gone to another Euro club (either on loan or outright). Not always up to the player of course.

Bradley got set-for-life money at Toronto that he probably wouldn't get elsewhere. And that's OK.

 

[SubbaBub]

Lando wasn't playing 90 minutes in the heat. No way. So it's not remotely 'half'.

I meant he left one side of his formation weak. No one will be paying much mind to the left side without LD there, so the opponents will squeeze the middle where CD and MB are. Even Zusi won't command a lot of attention, but I think he can/will surprise a few people and make them pay for it.