OT: Landon Donovan Left Off USA WC Squad

[Carl Spackler]

I see dan, that we will not agree.

For the world cup 2014:

goals scored:

Donovan: 0
Dempsey: 0
Altidore: 0
Wondolowski: 0
Bradley: 0
Johansson: 0

etc.

I really don't think Klinsmann gives a crap about what any players did in the World Cup for the U.S.A. in the past, and I don't think he should. edit: let me qualify that - I think that when it comes to making decisions about roster spots for the 2014 WC, Klinsmann doesn't give a crap about what any players did for the U.S.A. in the WC in the past, and I don't think he should. Big difference between assembling a roster for the future, and being respectful of the past. I don't think Klinsmann has any disrespect for past accomplishments.

 

[ZooCougar]

IF JK, thought we would have a better chance of winning with LD then he would be on the roster. That's really all there is to it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I have to admit, I liked the idea of Donovan on the bench for instant offense, if he could get in proper shape. But I don't think this is an ego move. I think speed and fitness level in the midfield will be critical in Brazil. I agree with ZooCougar, I think JK is fielding what he believes is the best team for the style he intends to play.

 

[SAMCRO]

I am a big LD fan, greatest US national player we've ever had. It's definitely not the way he or most US fans wanted to see his national team career come to an end. This said, I'm not that surprised with or questioning JK's decision. He is working his plan, with his team. It's a bold decision (opinions obviously vary on whether it was smart or not), but definitely bold. And JK now has the team's full attention. I am hoping this turns out to be a move that actually brings the group closer as a unit. How much confidence do you think he just instilled in Johanson, Wondo, etc...? Those guys will now run through brick walls (or Germans, Ghanans, and Portuguese) for JK. We will find out over the next 33 days how it plays out. Either way, the US had a tall order advancing past group play with or without LD. Bring on Azerbaijan!

 

[HuskyHawk]

....

I really don't think Klinsmann gives a crap about what any players did in the World Cup for the U.S.A. in the past, and I don't think he should. edit: let me qualify that - I think that when it comes to making decisions about roster spots for the 2014 WC, Klinsmann doesn't give a crap about what any players did for the U.S.A. in the WC in the past, and I don't think he should. Big difference between assembling a roster for the future, and being respectful of the past. I don't think Klinsmann has any disrespect for past accomplishments.

Yes, and while I agree with SAMCRO that LD is perhaps the best U.S. player of the past, that won't be the case for long. Dempsey could pass him and if he doesn't somebody else will, and soon. The quality of talent being produced in the U.S. is heading up. That means that favoring youth largely means favoring talent and athleticism over experience.

 

[Carl Spackler]

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/relegationzone/id/1944?cc=5901

 

[rich1122]

Great article from 2012 re: Klinsman's overall strategy to win in Brazil. Very much attention to fitness and speed of the game. Almost fanatical. I had severe doubts that Donovan would make the 23, since about 2 years ago. Even though I was still surprised.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/st...roactive-playing-style-leander-schaerlaeckens



Superior conditioning underpins Klinsmann's master plan for taking the U.S. program to the next level, theoretically birthing a faster-paced game, increased possession and pressure on the ball, and a "more proactive" style intended to "go at the other team."

"It's part of elevating the level of the players, because the base of everything you do is how fast you can do it and how fast you can recover," explained Klinsmann. "So if you want to pick up the speed of play on a high international level, then you have to build a foundation for it. So everything we do, we do it with a lot of speed, with high intensity. You can't train slow stuff and then ask them to play 200 miles an hour [in a game]."

 

[ZooCougar]

Great article from 2012 re: Klinsman's overall strategy to win in Brazil. Very much attention to fitness and speed of the game. Almost fanatical. I had severe doubts that Donovan would make the 23, since about 2 years ago. Even though I was still surprised.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/st...roactive-playing-style-leander-schaerlaeckens



Superior conditioning underpins Klinsmann's master plan for taking the U.S. program to the next level, theoretically birthing a faster-paced game, increased possession and pressure on the ball, and a "more proactive" style intended to "go at the other team."

"It's part of elevating the level of the players, because the base of everything you do is how fast you can do it and how fast you can recover," explained Klinsmann. "So if you want to pick up the speed of play on a high international level, then you have to build a foundation for it. So everything we do, we do it with a lot of speed, with high intensity. You can't train slow stuff and then ask them to play 200 miles an hour [in a game]."

Surprised too. But I get it and accept it.

I lucked into MLS All Star Game tickets last year and saw Landon play for a few minutes. Still felt like he was one of the best players on the pitch.

 

[rich1122]

My position is this: If you need a goal in the third game of the round robin to advance, and there are 20 minutes left in the game, are you grabbing Donovan off the bench, or Johannsson?

Look, there's no question that Donovan lost his mind for a bit there, and was not in proper shape or form to be in the starting 11. From that standpoint, I agree. But to leave him off the 23-man roster is foolish, IMO. If you need a goal, where the hell are you going to turn? The quality off the bench is not there. I don't care how many goals Wondo scored in friendlies, he's just not the quality that's going to be able to finish against teams like Germany or like Portugal. Landon is. So that means that leaving him off the plane is a mistake...

Julian Green plays on the best Pro team in the world and has stood up quite well. He is not on the best team in the world because he lacks anything.

After that, the preseason games became more serious. Bayern Munich defeated Brescia 3-0 in Italy and Julian Green came on in the 60th minute. While not scoring, he was very dangerous against the Serie B club. He scored in the fourth friendly, a 6-0 win against SG Sonnenhof Großaspach. He then played the final 10 minutes in the fifth friendly against Hansa Rostock 4-0. “The training was very intensive and we have learned many new things—especially about tactics,” Green told ASN on playing with Bayern Munich's first team. “It was a great chance for me, and really fun. I have enjoyed playing with the older players and working with this great coach every day.” Playing with the likes of Jerome Boateng, Franck Ribery, and Thomas Muller on the best team in the world might seem intimidating to some, but Green has enjoyed the opportunity and fit in with the stars on the team.


Johanssen is more of a question mark. He has played internationally at a young age and obviously. Last he played in the Netherlands in their upper League. Had 17 goals in league play. Had the winning goal against Panama as well.

It's obvious that Klinsman values International competition and recent level of play rather than past World Cup experience.

 

[intlzncster]

He didn't deserve to start, but he didn't deserve to be left at home either. We have a poor defense, and will need goals to advance, and we just decided to leave (arguably) our most dangerous weapon off the bench at home. I hope this decision doesn't come back to haunt us and Klinsman.

Well, then we are ducked (note: I think we kind of are). Because we have been banking on our team defense to see it through this one. Nobody ever mistook LD for a decent defensive player.

I don't see how this matters greatly in big picture. I personally would have kept LD on for the 15 minute offensive sub role, on creativity/skill alone (leaving aside fitness). That said, I don't feel (opinion), that having LD for 15m per game is going to be the difference between us advancing or going home. We literally have the group of death.

 

[intlzncster]

It's about time for Jozy Altidore to step up and finish on the service - no?

Unfortunately he's been looking in as bad form as LD in club play.

 

[intlzncster]

Really??

2010 World Cup Scorers - USA:
Donovan - 3
Bradley - 1
Dempsey - 1

Overall career goals - USA current squad:
Donovan* - 53
Dempsey - 36
Altidore - 21
Beasley - 17
Bradley - 12
Wondolowski - 9
Zusi - 3
and a bunch of guys with 2 or 1

To be fair, when you are a good goal scorer, and you have more caps than anyone in history (ex Kobe Jones), you will have more goals than anyone else.

If you look at goals per cap, its fairly even:
LD 53/156 = 34%
CD 36/103 = 35%
JA 21/67 = 31%

However I think if you look at total points, that's where LD shines. I'm too lazy to look up the stats though.

 

[intlzncster]

Let me qualify all of my comments with the fact that I hope Klinsmann was right in his decision, and that Johannsson and Wondo light up the freakin' sky in Brazil. And if there were a lot of "behind-the-scene" shenanigans that led to this (outside of the sabbatical), then so be it. That's why he's the coach and I'm posting stuff on the internet...

From what I've read, I don't think it was a behind the scenes deal nor a personal ego thing of JKs. I think he's a typical old school cold blooded German, with a fixed view and structure of how he wants the USMNT to function. LD doesn't fit anymore, so he's out. Whether that methodology is too inflexible or narrow is up for debate.

While it's certainly a controversy from a pure soccer perspective, people in our country always want there to be more behind these sorts of things than there actually is.

 

[intlzncster]

My position is this: If you need a goal in the third game of the round robin to advance, and there are 20 minutes left in the game, are you grabbing Donovan off the bench, or Johannsson?

Look, there's no question that Donovan lost his mind for a bit there, and was not in proper shape or form to be in the starting 11. From that standpoint, I agree. But to leave him off the 23-man roster is foolish, IMO. If you need a goal, where the hell are you going to turn? The quality off the bench is not there. I don't care how many goals Wondo scored in friendlies, he's just not the quality that's going to be able to finish against teams like Germany or like Portugal. Landon is. So that means that leaving him off the plane is a mistake...

Also, I think you're doing Wondo a little disservice here. Yes, he's not on Donovan's level, but it hasn't been JUST friendlies.

Wondolowski was a hero of the U.S.'s triumph in last summer's Gold Cup with five goals in the first two games. He also scored twice in a friendly against South Korea in February, and once against Mexico in April. He has five goals in nine games for the San Jose Earthquakes so far this season.

 

[intlzncster]

Great article from 2012 re: Klinsman's overall strategy to win in Brazil. Very much attention to fitness and speed of the game. Almost fanatical. I had severe doubts that Donovan would make the 23, since about 2 years ago. Even though I was still surprised.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/st...roactive-playing-style-leander-schaerlaeckens

And very German! I personally like the discipline focus of JK. But I've some German ancestry, so...

 

[intlzncster]

Johanssen is more of a question mark. He has played internationally at a young age and obviously. Last he played in the Netherlands in their upper League. Had 17 goals in league play. Had the winning goal against Panama as well.

It's obvious that Klinsman values International competition and recent level of play rather than past World Cup experience.

Then why is Altidore at on the squad?? He has been decidedly less than stellar for his club team.

In case of confusion, I'm just kidding with the first sentence there to make a point.

 

[rich1122]

Then why is Altidore at on the squad?? He has been decidedly less than stellar for his club team.
In case of confusion, I'm just kidding with the first sentence there to make a point.

He played very well for AZ then they sold his rights to Sunderland and he got a 4-year contract. He was in the dog house. Which Jozy will show up is the ?? Johanssen can come in and I think that Wondo will play with the chip on his shoulder and is my vote to be the hero of the WC.

On Sunday April 14, Altidore netted his third hat-trick of the season in a 6-0 victory over FC Utrecht.[40] On 9 May, he scored the winning goal against PSV in the KNVB Cup final, helping AZ to lift the Dutch Cup for the first time in 31 years.[41] Subsequently Altidore became the first-ever American to be named in De Telegraaf's "Team of the Season" after finishing with 23 goals in the Eredivisie and 8 in the KNVB Cup.[42]

 

[UConnDan97]

Julian Green plays on the best Pro team in the world and has stood up quite well. He is not on the best team in the world because he lacks anything.

After that, the preseason games became more serious. Bayern Munich defeated Brescia 3-0 in Italy and Julian Green came on in the 60th minute. While not scoring, he was very dangerous against the Serie B club. He scored in the fourth friendly, a 6-0 win against SG Sonnenhof Großaspach. He then played the final 10 minutes in the fifth friendly against Hansa Rostock 4-0. “The training was very intensive and we have learned many new things—especially about tactics,” Green told ASN on playing with Bayern Munich's first team. “It was a great chance for me, and really fun. I have enjoyed playing with the older players and working with this great coach every day.” Playing with the likes of Jerome Boateng, Franck Ribery, and Thomas Muller on the best team in the world might seem intimidating to some, but Green has enjoyed the opportunity and fit in with the stars on the team.


Johanssen is more of a question mark. He has played internationally at a young age and obviously. Last he played in the Netherlands in their upper League. Had 17 goals in league play. Had the winning goal against Panama as well.

It's obvious that Klinsman values International competition and recent level of play rather than past World Cup experience.

Look, again, I hope I'm wrong. But if you are going to use late-game appearances against Serie B squads or against teams like Grossaspach or Rostock, you're not going to convince me of anything. I hope Julian is the next great player for the US, but his resume has very little right now to suggest that he's ready to deliver the big-time moment. He might have the talent to do so, but he certainly hasn't yet done so...

 

[UConnDan97]

To be fair, when you are a good goal scorer, and you have more caps than anyone in history (ex Kobe Jones), you will have more goals than anyone else.

If you look at goals per cap, its fairly even:
LD 53/156 = 34%
CD 36/103 = 35%
JA 21/67 = 31%

However I think if you look at total points, that's where LD shines. I'm too lazy to look up the stats though.

Don't mistake what I'm saying. I'm not saying that I think Donovan is better than Dempsey. In fact, I'm one of the few who thinks that Clint Dempsey is the greatest American player ever to play.

What I'm saying is that Landon has proven that he can score in the big moments. You want someone like that on the team, even if it's on the bench, especially when you absolutely need a goal to get through to the next round. There are very few instances (i.e., troublemaker in the locker room) where you leave a guy like that home...

 

[UConnDan97]

Also, I think you're doing Wondo a little disservice here. Yes, he's not on Donovan's level, but it hasn't been JUST friendlies.

Wondolowski was a hero of the U.S.'s triumph in last summer's Gold Cup with five goals in the first two games. He also scored twice in a friendly against South Korea in February, and once against Mexico in April. He has five goals in nine games for the San Jose Earthquakes so far this season.

I'm not trying to do Wondo a disservice. What I'm trying to say is EXACTLY what you've already stated (above in bold). Since everyone knows that he's not on Donovan's level....why is Donovan sitting at home right now? Exactly my point...

 

[intlzncster]

I'm not trying to do Wondo a disservice. What I'm trying to say is EXACTLY what you've already stated (above in bold). Since everyone knows that he's not on Donovan's level....why is Donovan sitting at home right now? Exactly my point...

No, I got the point, I was just saying defending Wondo (a lot of people have been ripping on him for some reason). I think both guys should have been on the squad, and you could leave, oh I don't know, Johannsonn off. There's talk of Wondo not being on the roster in some corners, and I'm just like, "damn, what's a guy got to do to make the roster?" He's earned his spot.

Make no mistake, there would have been controversy throughout the WC if LD wasn't getting minutes anyway.

I'm one of the few who'd leave Julian Green on the team simply for the experience of being at the WC. He is unequivocally the future, so lets make his progress as accelerated as possible. I've always been a long term thinker for US soccer though, so YMMV.

 

[intlzncster]

Don't mistake what I'm saying. I'm not saying that I think Donovan is better than Dempsey. In fact, I'm one of the few who thinks that Clint Dempsey is the greatest American player ever to play.

What I'm saying is that Landon has proven that he can score in the big moments. You want someone like that on the team, even if it's on the bench, especially when you absolutely need a goal to get through to the next round. There are very few instances (i.e., troublemaker in the locker room) where you leave a guy like that home...

Yeah, I think it's hard to argue he couldn't have been a valuable assert off the bench. I really think this is a case of JK's germanic discipline of sticking to the system he has decided to implement -- fast, athletic players who recover quickly.

JK reminds me very much of Bill Belickick in terms of his coldblooded sticktoitiveness towards his system. Zero leeway or sentimentality.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Yeah, I think it's hard to argue he couldn't have been a valuable assert off the bench. I really think this is a case of JK's germanic discipline of sticking to the system he has decided to implement -- fast, athletic players who recover quickly.

JK reminds me very much of Bill Belickick in terms of his coldblooded sticktoitiveness towards his system. Zero leeway or sentimentality.

In recent years, how much did Donovan' decision(s) to take time periods off from international competition influence his cut?

 

[intlzncster]

In recent years, how much did Donovan' decision(s) to take time periods off from international competition influence his cut?

I definitely think it did as well. JK is a ten toes in kind of guy. If you offer only nine, you are out.

 

[spsct]

In recent years, how much did Donovan' decision(s) to take time periods off from international competition influence his cut?

Like someone said earlier, if he had pulled that over here in Germany I would be mildly surprised if he ever played for National Team again.

I think LD being out is a combination of his fitness, not fitting into what JK has planned for Brazil, and JK also looking ahead to the future beyond 2014.

I'm certainly not wringing my hands over this; one player who very well could have been coming in as 2nd half replacement most likely will not make or break this team's final result.