OT: Kemba/Drummond Not Allstars

[RipCity]

Wrong. Eye test and foot to the fire who’s better KP or Drummond? It’s not even close. Drummond’s a better rebounder. That’s it

Porzingis is a “star” so he gets a ton of field goal attempts every game. That’s it. He doesn’t shoot good percentages, he doesn’t rebound, and isn’t a good passer.

But I’m sorry, you’re right, the whole world should stop relying on statistical proof and start using your eyes to make decisions.

 

[Walker11]

Is this trying to tell me Klay is the worst of the defensive players and Boogie is the best?

 

[AntG168]

Porzingis is a “star” so he gets a ton of field goal attempts every game. That’s it. He doesn’t shoot good percentages, he doesn’t rebound, and isn’t a good passer.

But I’m sorry, you’re right, the whole world should stop relying on statistical proof and start using your eyes to make decisions.

Drummond gets his shots created for him, that’s why his FG percentage is higher, he lives off of dunks and put backs. He cannot create his own shot that’s why he has less attempts lol. His free throw shooting just became non-embarrassing. I like Drummond and feel he should’ve been in over horford or Love. But not KP. KP’s first month and a half was better than Drummond has ever or will ever play. Drummond is good for his role that’s it. He’s not and will never be in the same class as KP. No GM on this planet would agree with you. No one getting paid to make decisions values Drummond over Porzingis. It’d get you fired. Only in Detroit and on a UConn message board is this even a discussion

 

[RipCity]

No GM on this planet would agree with you. No one getting paid to make decisions values Drummond over Porzingis. It’d get you fired. Only in Detroit and on a UConn message board is this even a discussion

Trade value doesn’t mean he has been better this year. Porzingis has a high ceiling and more trade value, but he’s been worse this year.

 

[methodology]

No GM on this planet would agree with you. No one getting paid to make decisions values Drummond over Porzingis. It’d get you fired. Only in Detroit and on a UConn message board is this even a discussion

That's subjective to the current roster and needs. Drummond could be valued more on some teams/ rosters than KP. Not everything is in a vacuum with no other variables that go into the decision making process

 

[AntG168]

Trade value doesn’t mean he has been better this year. Porzingis has a high ceiling and more trade value, but he’s been worse this year.

Wrong again. KP carries a much heavier weight than Drummond carries. Drummond is asked to rebound and dunk.....that’s it. KP is the number 1 option. Other teams game plans are centered around stopping him. Drummond is a GREAT rebounder and a really good player. But just because he shoots a higher percentage doesn’t make him a better player. You have to take into account how each player scores and the quality of shots they get. Drummond has two pgs in Jackson and ish smith who get into the lane and get him EASY dunks and put backs. Porzingis has...wait for it.....Jarrett Jack. He doesn’t get easy shots created for him. Give Porzingis Reggie Jackson and ish smith and I’d guarantee you he shoots 50% or higher. You can’t cherry pick stats without context. Yes Porzingis only averages 6.5 rebounds but that irresponsible to say without also pointing out he plays next to one of the best rebounders in the league, and that he spends the majority of his time on the perimeter. I also don’t care what the analytics say it is widely known by anyone who has eyes for the game that Porzingis has a much greater impact on defense than Drummond. I’m NY the perimeter defenders are Jarrett Jack and THJ which means KP is constantly helping and trying to clean up mistakes which gets him in foul trouble and leaves his man open on the weak side. I’m just providing context to the “numbers”. Drummond is a terrific rebounder and clearly better than KP in that area, but THATS ALL HE’S BETTER AT.

 

[AntG168]

That's subjective to the current roster and needs. Drummond could be valued more on some teams/ rosters than KP. Not everything is in a vacuum with no other variables that go into the decision making process

No. If both players are available. No team in the league is pursuing Drummond over Porzingis

 

[superjohn]

No. If both players are available. No team in the league is pursuing Drummond over Porzingis

They are all taking Love and Horford over Porzingis and Drummond though, lol.

 

[AntG168]

They are all taking Love and Horford over Porzingis and Drummond though, lol.

I’d actually love Drummond and Porzingis on the same team. I think the compliment each other

 

[RipCity]

Wrong again. KP carries a much heavier weight than Drummond carries. Drummond is asked to rebound and dunk.....that’s it. KP is the number 1 option. Other teams game plans are centered around stopping him. Drummond is a GREAT rebounder and a really good player. But just because he shoots a higher percentage doesn’t make him a better player. You have to take into account how each player scores and the quality of shots they get. Drummond has two pgs in Jackson and ish smith who get into the lane and get him EASY dunks and put backs. Porzingis has...wait for it.....Jarrett Jack. He doesn’t get easy shots created for him. Give Porzingis Reggie Jackson and ish smith and I’d guarantee you he shoots 50% or higher. You can’t cherry pick stats without context. Yes Porzingis only averages 6.5 rebounds but that irresponsible to say without also pointing out he plays next to one of the best rebounders in the league, and that he spends the majority of his time on the perimeter. I also don’t care what the analytics say it is widely known by anyone who has eyes for the game that Porzingis has a much greater impact on defense than Drummond. I’m NY the perimeter defenders are Jarrett Jack and THJ which means KP is constantly helping and trying to clean up mistakes which gets him in foul trouble and leaves his man open on the weak side. I’m just providing context to the “numbers”. Drummond is a terrific rebounder and clearly better than KP in that area, but THATS ALL HE’S BETTER AT.

Drummond’s usage rate is way higher than you’re implying. You don’t get 4 assists as a center without having the ball.

If I was starting a team today then I would definitely choose KP over Drummond, Love or Horford. But they’ve all been better than KP this year. Being an all star is about production and how effective you are, not how good you could be IMO. Porzingis has a huge ceiling, but he’s far from it, and even though it may be the result of his role, he hasn’t been that good this year.

 

[superjohn]

Drummond’s usage rate is way higher than you’re implying. You don’t get 4 assists as a center without having the ball.

If I was starting a team today then I would definitely choose KP over Drummond, Love or Horford. But they’ve all been better than KP this year. Being an all star is about production and how effective you are, not how good you could be IMO. Porzingis has a huge ceiling, but he’s far from it, and even though it may be the result of his role, he hasn’t been that good this year.

You honestly think Love and Horford are better than Porzingis right now.

 

[AntG168]

Drummond’s usage rate is way higher than you’re implying. You don’t get 4 assists as a center without having the ball.

If I was starting a team today then I would definitely choose KP over Drummond, Love or Horford. But they’ve all been better than KP this year. Being an all star is about production and how effective you are, not how good you could be IMO. Porzingis has a huge ceiling, but he’s far from it, and even though it may be the result of his role, he hasn’t been that good this year.

Averging 10 less ppg than someone is not being more productive. Kevin Love has been better than KP this yr? Lmaoo. Idk how many Knick games you watch but You’re off on this one but we’ll agree to disagree

 

[AntG168]

You honestly think Love and Horford are better than Porzingis right now.

It’s insane

 

[RipCity]

You honestly think Love and Horford are better than Porzingis right now.

No I think Porzingis needs to stop taking dumb shots. He’s more talented but is shooting himself into being less productive. His numbers are ugly.

Rob Gray is less talented than Jalen yet he deserves AAC POY more than Adams.

 

[superjohn]

No I think Porzingis needs to stop taking dumb shots. He’s more talented but is shooting himself into being less productive. His numbers are ugly.

Thought you were implying Porzingis isn't better than them right now when you said he has a huge ceiling but is far from it right now. Okay, I get where you're coming from now.

Porzingis is the #1 on a cr@p roster, he has demands on him that Love and Horford could never dream about.

 

[UConnStats]

You guys are just using different criteria. @RipCity is using efficiency as his biggest barometer, which will basically go hand in hand with BPM, VORP, WS, etc. @AntG168 @superjohn are using raw numbers and the fact that Porzingis has to be the whole team. Two schools of thought.

 

[RipCity]

Thought you were implying Porzingis isn't better than them right now when you said he has a huge ceiling but is far from it right now. Okay, I get where you're coming from now.

Porzingis is the #1 on a cr@p roster, he has demands on him that Love and Horford could never dream about.

All good, I could tell you weren’t getting what I really meant at first.

When someone carries the team like Porzingis or Jalen Adams, sometimes I find that it kind of hides their flaws. Even if Adams was on a good team, he’d be turnover prone and have a sloppy handle. Porzingis, bad team or not, has too low of a 2P% IMO. It’s not an exact science to see which side is pulling more, but that’s the reason I’d go with a guy like Drummond this year. His role is smaller but he’s been very efficient in it.

 

[Hi-Low]

I'm not sure Drummond could ever have a better, more impactful first half to a season.....I guess he makes it look too easy.

 

[AntG168]

All good, I could tell you weren’t getting what I really meant at first.

When someone carries the team like Porzingis or Jalen Adams, sometimes I find that it kind of hides their flaws. Even if Adams was on a good team, he’d be turnover prone and have a sloppy handle. Porzingis, bad team or not, has too low of a 2P% IMO. It’s not an exact science to see which side is pulling more, but that’s the reason I’d go with a guy like Drummond this year. His role is smaller but he’s been very efficient in it.

And I agree sometimes he displays the Melo disease and takes horrible shots. And didn’t mean to call you insane I’m just a passionate Knicks fan lol. But Isn’t that a different argument tho? I don’t think anyone would argue that Drummond isnt more efficient. But if he was asked to do what Porzingis is asked to do could he do it? Saying he’s been better at his smaller role doesn’t equal to he’s better. It just means he isn’t good enough to play the role Porzingis plays

 

[Rocktheworld]

You honestly think Love and Horford are better than Porzingis right now.

A theoretical team would have to trade both those aging limited 4s for KP

 

[Kitaman]

What the deal with Kwahi Leonard, is it because he was hurt?

 

[Storrs South]

Didn’t mean to call you insane, I’m just a passionate Knicks fan lol. But Isn’t that a different argument tho? I don’t think anyone would argue that Drummond isnt more efficient. But if he was asked to do what Porzingis is asked to do could he do it?

Probably not, but does it matter? As previously stated by others, it's not about who has the most talent it's about who played the best in the 1st half of the season. The Rob Gray v. Jalen Adams comp from above is a good example. Adams is more talented but Gray is in a more defined offensive role with some help from his team and subsequently having the better season.

And even just backing away from the Drummond/Porzingis comparison for a moment, how does someone with these numbers not get into the All-Star game:

 

[superjohn]

Probably not, but does it matter? As previously stated by others, it's not about who has the most talent it's about who played the best in the 1st half of the season. The Rob Gray v. Jalen Adams comp from above is a good example. Adams is more talented but Gray is in a more defined offensive role with some help from his team and subsequently having the better season.

And even just backing away from the Drummond/Porzingis comparison for a moment, how does someone with these numbers not get into the All-Star game:

I think you answered your own question, all they care about is your record. Horford is averaging something like 13 ppg and 7 rebounds.

 

[AntG168]

Probably not, but does it matter? As previously stated by others, it's not about who has the most talent it's about who played the best in the 1st half of the season. The Rob Gray v. Jalen Adams comp from above is a good example. Adams is more talented but Gray is in a more defined offensive role with some help from his team and subsequently having the better season.

And even just backing away from the Drummond/Porzingis comparison for a moment, how does someone with these numbers not get into the All-Star game:

I think that’s more a argument of there needing to be more all star slots. I just feel like picking Porzingis as the one who shouldn’t have been an all star above 2 guys who average 13 and 14 points is insane. The Knicks have overachieved so far and he’s been a major reason why. I mean averaging 24, 7, and 2.5 blocks is nothing to sneeze at. That’s pretty damn productive. The argument would hold water if Drummond, Love, and Horford were just so much more productive than KP, but they aren’t. In Drummond’s case he just rebounds better. Drummond and Kemba should be all stars, but not at the expense of KP imo

 

[RipCity]

And I agree sometimes he displays the Melo disease and takes horrible shots. And didn’t mean to call you insane I’m just a passionate Knicks fan lol. But Isn’t that a different argument tho? I don’t think anyone would argue that Drummond isnt more efficient. But if he was asked to do what Porzingis is asked to do could he do it? Saying he’s been better at his smaller role doesn’t equal to he’s better. It just means he isn’t good enough to play the role Porzingis plays

No problem brotha, just a debate. I took no offense.

My counter would be that we don’t even really know Porzingis is cut out for that big of a role until he does it with more efficiency. Hopefully the Knicks surround him with better talent and we see what he can really do.