OT: Kemba/Drummond Not Allstars | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT: Kemba/Drummond Not Allstars

RipCity said:
Trade value doesn’t mean he has been better this year. Porzingis has a high ceiling and more trade value, but he’s been worse this year.
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Wrong again. KP carries a much heavier weight than Drummond carries. Drummond is asked to rebound and dunk.....that’s it. KP is the number 1 option. Other teams game plans are centered around stopping him. Drummond is a GREAT rebounder and a really good player. But just because he shoots a higher percentage doesn’t make him a better player. You have to take into account how each player scores and the quality of shots they get. Drummond has two pgs in Jackson and ish smith who get into the lane and get him EASY dunks and put backs. Porzingis has...wait for it.....Jarrett Jack. He doesn’t get easy shots created for him. Give Porzingis Reggie Jackson and ish smith and I’d guarantee you he shoots 50% or higher. You can’t cherry pick stats without context. Yes Porzingis only averages 6.5 rebounds but that irresponsible to say without also pointing out he plays next to one of the best rebounders in the league, and that he spends the majority of his time on the perimeter. I also don’t care what the analytics say it is widely known by anyone who has eyes for the game that Porzingis has a much greater impact on defense than Drummond. I’m NY the perimeter defenders are Jarrett Jack and THJ which means KP is constantly helping and trying to clean up mistakes which gets him in foul trouble and leaves his man open on the weak side. I’m just providing context to the “numbers”. Drummond is a terrific rebounder and clearly better than KP in that area, but THATS ALL HE’S BETTER AT.
 
methodology said:
That's subjective to the current roster and needs. Drummond could be valued more on some teams/ rosters than KP. Not everything is in a vacuum with no other variables that go into the decision making process
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No. If both players are available. No team in the league is pursuing Drummond over Porzingis
 
AntG168 said:
No. If both players are available. No team in the league is pursuing Drummond over Porzingis
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They are all taking Love and Horford over Porzingis and Drummond though, lol.
 
superjohn said:
They are all taking Love and Horford over Porzingis and Drummond though, lol.
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I’d actually love Drummond and Porzingis on the same team. I think the compliment each other
 
AntG168 said:
Wrong again. KP carries a much heavier weight than Drummond carries. Drummond is asked to rebound and dunk.....that’s it. KP is the number 1 option. Other teams game plans are centered around stopping him. Drummond is a GREAT rebounder and a really good player. But just because he shoots a higher percentage doesn’t make him a better player. You have to take into account how each player scores and the quality of shots they get. Drummond has two pgs in Jackson and ish smith who get into the lane and get him EASY dunks and put backs. Porzingis has...wait for it.....Jarrett Jack. He doesn’t get easy shots created for him. Give Porzingis Reggie Jackson and ish smith and I’d guarantee you he shoots 50% or higher. You can’t cherry pick stats without context. Yes Porzingis only averages 6.5 rebounds but that irresponsible to say without also pointing out he plays next to one of the best rebounders in the league, and that he spends the majority of his time on the perimeter. I also don’t care what the analytics say it is widely known by anyone who has eyes for the game that Porzingis has a much greater impact on defense than Drummond. I’m NY the perimeter defenders are Jarrett Jack and THJ which means KP is constantly helping and trying to clean up mistakes which gets him in foul trouble and leaves his man open on the weak side. I’m just providing context to the “numbers”. Drummond is a terrific rebounder and clearly better than KP in that area, but THATS ALL HE’S BETTER AT.
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Drummond’s usage rate is way higher than you’re implying. You don’t get 4 assists as a center without having the ball.

If I was starting a team today then I would definitely choose KP over Drummond, Love or Horford. But they’ve all been better than KP this year. Being an all star is about production and how effective you are, not how good you could be IMO. Porzingis has a huge ceiling, but he’s far from it, and even though it may be the result of his role, he hasn’t been that good this year.
 
RipCity said:
Drummond’s usage rate is way higher than you’re implying. You don’t get 4 assists as a center without having the ball.

If I was starting a team today then I would definitely choose KP over Drummond, Love or Horford. But they’ve all been better than KP this year. Being an all star is about production and how effective you are, not how good you could be IMO. Porzingis has a huge ceiling, but he’s far from it, and even though it may be the result of his role, he hasn’t been that good this year.
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You honestly think Love and Horford are better than Porzingis right now.
 
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RipCity said:
Drummond’s usage rate is way higher than you’re implying. You don’t get 4 assists as a center without having the ball.

If I was starting a team today then I would definitely choose KP over Drummond, Love or Horford. But they’ve all been better than KP this year. Being an all star is about production and how effective you are, not how good you could be IMO. Porzingis has a huge ceiling, but he’s far from it, and even though it may be the result of his role, he hasn’t been that good this year.
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Averging 10 less ppg than someone is not being more productive. Kevin Love has been better than KP this yr? Lmaoo. Idk how many Knick games you watch but You’re off on this one but we’ll agree to disagree
 
superjohn said:
You honestly think Love and Horford are better than Porzingis right now.
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No I think Porzingis needs to stop taking dumb shots. He’s more talented but is shooting himself into being less productive. His numbers are ugly.

Rob Gray is less talented than Jalen yet he deserves AAC POY more than Adams.
 
RipCity said:
No I think Porzingis needs to stop taking dumb shots. He’s more talented but is shooting himself into being less productive. His numbers are ugly.
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Thought you were implying Porzingis isn't better than them right now when you said he has a huge ceiling but is far from it right now. Okay, I get where you're coming from now.

Porzingis is the #1 on a cr@p roster, he has demands on him that Love and Horford could never dream about.
 
You guys are just using different criteria. @RipCity is using efficiency as his biggest barometer, which will basically go hand in hand with BPM, VORP, WS, etc. @AntG168 @superjohn are using raw numbers and the fact that Porzingis has to be the whole team. Two schools of thought.
 
superjohn said:
Thought you were implying Porzingis isn't better than them right now when you said he has a huge ceiling but is far from it right now. Okay, I get where you're coming from now.

Porzingis is the #1 on a cr@p roster, he has demands on him that Love and Horford could never dream about.
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All good, I could tell you weren’t getting what I really meant at first.

When someone carries the team like Porzingis or Jalen Adams, sometimes I find that it kind of hides their flaws. Even if Adams was on a good team, he’d be turnover prone and have a sloppy handle. Porzingis, bad team or not, has too low of a 2P% IMO. It’s not an exact science to see which side is pulling more, but that’s the reason I’d go with a guy like Drummond this year. His role is smaller but he’s been very efficient in it.
 
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I'm not sure Drummond could ever have a better, more impactful first half to a season.....I guess he makes it look too easy.
 
RipCity said:
All good, I could tell you weren’t getting what I really meant at first.

When someone carries the team like Porzingis or Jalen Adams, sometimes I find that it kind of hides their flaws. Even if Adams was on a good team, he’d be turnover prone and have a sloppy handle. Porzingis, bad team or not, has too low of a 2P% IMO. It’s not an exact science to see which side is pulling more, but that’s the reason I’d go with a guy like Drummond this year. His role is smaller but he’s been very efficient in it.
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And I agree sometimes he displays the Melo disease and takes horrible shots. And didn’t mean to call you insane I’m just a passionate Knicks fan lol. But Isn’t that a different argument tho? I don’t think anyone would argue that Drummond isnt more efficient. But if he was asked to do what Porzingis is asked to do could he do it? Saying he’s been better at his smaller role doesn’t equal to he’s better. It just means he isn’t good enough to play the role Porzingis plays
 
What the deal with Kwahi Leonard, is it because he was hurt?
 
AntG168 said:
Didn’t mean to call you insane, I’m just a passionate Knicks fan lol. But Isn’t that a different argument tho? I don’t think anyone would argue that Drummond isnt more efficient. But if he was asked to do what Porzingis is asked to do could he do it?
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Probably not, but does it matter? As previously stated by others, it's not about who has the most talent it's about who played the best in the 1st half of the season. The Rob Gray v. Jalen Adams comp from above is a good example. Adams is more talented but Gray is in a more defined offensive role with some help from his team and subsequently having the better season.

And even just backing away from the Drummond/Porzingis comparison for a moment, how does someone with these numbers not get into the All-Star game:

 
Storrs South said:
Probably not, but does it matter? As previously stated by others, it's not about who has the most talent it's about who played the best in the 1st half of the season. The Rob Gray v. Jalen Adams comp from above is a good example. Adams is more talented but Gray is in a more defined offensive role with some help from his team and subsequently having the better season.

And even just backing away from the Drummond/Porzingis comparison for a moment, how does someone with these numbers not get into the All-Star game:

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I think you answered your own question, all they care about is your record. Horford is averaging something like 13 ppg and 7 rebounds.
 
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Storrs South said:
Probably not, but does it matter? As previously stated by others, it's not about who has the most talent it's about who played the best in the 1st half of the season. The Rob Gray v. Jalen Adams comp from above is a good example. Adams is more talented but Gray is in a more defined offensive role with some help from his team and subsequently having the better season.

And even just backing away from the Drummond/Porzingis comparison for a moment, how does someone with these numbers not get into the All-Star game:

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I think that’s more a argument of there needing to be more all star slots. I just feel like picking Porzingis as the one who shouldn’t have been an all star above 2 guys who average 13 and 14 points is insane. The Knicks have overachieved so far and he’s been a major reason why. I mean averaging 24, 7, and 2.5 blocks is nothing to sneeze at. That’s pretty damn productive. The argument would hold water if Drummond, Love, and Horford were just so much more productive than KP, but they aren’t. In Drummond’s case he just rebounds better. Drummond and Kemba should be all stars, but not at the expense of KP imo
 
AntG168 said:
And I agree sometimes he displays the Melo disease and takes horrible shots. And didn’t mean to call you insane I’m just a passionate Knicks fan lol. But Isn’t that a different argument tho? I don’t think anyone would argue that Drummond isnt more efficient. But if he was asked to do what Porzingis is asked to do could he do it? Saying he’s been better at his smaller role doesn’t equal to he’s better. It just means he isn’t good enough to play the role Porzingis plays
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No problem brotha, just a debate. I took no offense.

My counter would be that we don’t even really know Porzingis is cut out for that big of a role until he does it with more efficiency. Hopefully the Knicks surround him with better talent and we see what he can really do.
 
RipCity said:
No problem brotha, just a debate. I took no offense.

My counter would be that we don’t even really know Porzingis is cut out for that big of a role until he does it with more efficiency. Hopefully the Knicks surround him with better talent and we see what he can really do.
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We can both agree to that. What they did to Ewing and melo in terms of a supporting cast in their prime was criminal
 
superjohn said:
I think you answered your own question, all they care about is your record. Horford is averaging something like 13 ppg and 7 rebounds.
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Defense and passing exist.
 
AntG168 said:
And I agree sometimes he displays the Melo disease and takes horrible shots. And didn’t mean to call you insane I’m just a passionate Knicks fan lol. But Isn’t that a different argument tho? I don’t think anyone would argue that Drummond isnt more efficient. But if he was asked to do what Porzingis is asked to do could he do it? Saying he’s been better at his smaller role doesn’t equal to he’s better. It just means he isn’t good enough to play the role Porzingis plays
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I've always thought it'd be interesting if Melo wasn't relied on to be such a star from the get go if he would have been a better team player throughout his career. Obviously Cuse was talented but he put that roster on his back the entire year and then with Denver from the jump was the #1 option with a questionable roster year in and year out. His Western Conference Finals against the Lakers was his peak and he balled out like some of the best to ever do it and they were still handled by the Lakers.
 
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superjohn said:
Drummond not making the all-star team is insane.
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nomar said:
Kemba didn't deserve it this year but Drummond deserved it over Love and Wall.
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I've seen every minute Kemba has played this year and while he is the heart and soul of the Hornets he has not played as well as he did last season, particularly at the end of games. Howard made Drummond look like a child when Detroit played us.
 
bpear1600 said:
I've seen every minute Kemba has played this year and while he is the heart and soul of the Hornets he has not played as well as he did last season, particularly at the end of games. Howard made Drummond look like a child when Detroit played us.
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Drummond made Horford look like a child when they played.
 
Andre had 30 pts 24 rebs 6 blocks 4 assists and 3 steals yet the pistons still lost to the jazz. Our two best players are pretty much in basketball purgatory right now.
 
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