OT: Florida St. football/rape case

[DarthGrumpy]

Before I thought there was not much to this story; but, now with DNA evidence and the quoted statement from the Tallahassee Police Detective (which if true, Tallahassee is going to end-up with a pair of major lawsuit on its hands from the victim and the Fed), I think Florida State has a major issue on its hands.
Of course, if this case does move forward, it would fall into the hands of a Florida prosecutor and jury, both of whom have done real good with Zimmerman, Hernandez (anyone see that the county Prosecutor at the time was a major Gator contributor?), Anthony.
Speaking of jokes, after Penn State, one would think the NCAA would step in at this point. Just don’t hold your breath.
As for UConn, it feels like a publicity stunt right now as the facts have been very sparse; but, if there has been a crime committed, I do hope that justice is served.

 

[whaler11]

Yes. And not because of potential misconduct by the police on campus or in Tallahassee. I agree with Zoo that all the facts are not known. For all I know this woman in Florida ID'd the player all along and the case officer deliberately wrote it down wrong, but that doesn't relieve, in this case, the plaintiff from her responsibility to assist in the prosecution. The story as of now sounds more like the Duke case than anything else.

As for UConn, the stink of the money/publicity grab is overpowering everything else.

Got it. There is no chance that there are similar systemic issues at UConn as there are on campuses all around the country.

 

[SubbaBub]

People use the word "alleged" wrong.

It refers to someone else describing someone as such. Is anyone other than her family describing her as a victim? Maybe so.

I'm not sure what your point is here. These are very serious allegations where the evidence to convict or exonerate is nearly always muddled in a system that requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt with the burden of proof ultimately on the accuser.

Add in the unprofessional behavior of some backwater law enforcement personnel and things become that much more difficult. In an ideal world, claims are easily proven and the guilty dealt with accordingly. (See the Vanderbilt case, it had video and the attackers were barred from campus within days) But, most cases aren't that clear cut so we do as best we can with the evidence presented and try to respect the rights of both the accused and the accuser.

In the FSU case, the player was certainly famous enough to be considered a target and in the cases cited at UConn they're were pre-existing relationships to consider. Accusations are easy, proof beyond a reasonable doubt isn't.

I am all for holding the law enforcement system accountable for breaches in protocol. I am not willing to do the same for the entire judicial system, some town or some school for these shortcomings unless clear misconduct is evident at that level.

Nor, am I willing to consider a lack of prosecution or conviction as the sole determinating factor in whether or not a Title IX claim is valid.

 

[SubbaBub]

Got it. There is no chance that there are similar systemic issues at UConn as there are on campuses all around the country.

See my above reply.

 

[ZooCougar]

They need to bring in a special prosecutor now.

 

[whaler11]

See my above reply.

Not being a lawyer I have no opinion on the merits of the Title IX claim.

I do believe that at least some of what they have claimed is true re: culture, staff, police etc.

 

[SubbaBub]

They need to bring in a special prosecutor now.

I agree. There should be a standard body to go to in these matters of police/DA misconduct. Every case needn't be dragged out in the public eye. It's not good for anyone involved. But it's an old question, "who policies the police?"

 

[upstater]

In the FSU case, the player was certainly famous enough to be considered a target and in the cases cited at UConn they're were pre-existing relationships to consider. Accusations are easy, proof beyond a reasonable doubt isn't.

Are redshirt freshman who don't play famous? Are you saying this girl figured this kid (who wasn't even starting) was destined to be an All-American QB.

You can go back many decades and find only 2 FSU QBs who became famous (but then didn't pan out in the NFL). Chris Weinke and Charlie Ward.
If this is really what she was thinking, she may be hired on as a scout.

 

[whaler11]

Are redshirt freshman who don't play famous? Are you saying this girl figured this kid (who wasn't even starting) was destined to be an All-American QB.

You can go back many decades and find only 2 FSU QBs who became famous (but then didn't pan out in the NFL). Chris Weinke and Charlie Ward.
If this is really what she was thinking, she may be hired on as a scout.

In this case he's pretty famous. He was the #1 QB in the country and is a hell of a pitcher.

Not saying I agree w SB - just saying the kid was famous. He got a ton of attention coming into the season and blew up on labor day.

 

[upstater]

In this case he's pretty famous. He was the #1 QB in the country and is a hell of a pitcher.

Not saying I agree w SB - just saying the kid was famous. He got a ton of attention coming into the season and blew up on labor day.

I stand corrected. Definitely don't follow this stuff. Then again, a lot of HS phenom top 10 types never make it.

Just the whole story seems curious if she were a golddigger. She didn't go through with the accusation. She didn't even know who he was until a month later. She didn't know his name. She did not get his height right. She ID'd him a month later. She decided not to proceed after being warned her life would become hell. Presumably, a golddigger would be aware of so much of this before starting on that path.

If she really thought this through and crafted it, it would be amazing.

 

[SubbaBub]

I stand corrected. Definitely don't follow this stuff. Then again, a lot of HS phenom top 10 types never make it.

Just the whole story seems curious if she were a golddigger. She didn't go through with the accusation. She didn't even know who he was until a month later. She didn't know his name. She did not get his height right. She ID'd him a month later. She decided not to proceed after being warned her life would become hell. Presumably, a golddigger would be aware of so much of this before starting on that path.

If she really thought this through and crafted it, it would be amazing.

The only reason I brought it up was to highlight that these cases are not always cut and dried. A high profile guy can be targeted. No idea whether it applies in this case or not.

 

[ZooCougar]

The only reason I brought it up was to highlight that these cases are not always cut and dried. A high profile guy can be targeted. No idea whether it applies in this case or not.

That has happened. But this doesn't appear to be a Tawana Brawley type case. You don't see her all over the TV.

 

[SubbaBub]

That has happened. But this doesn't appear to be a Tawana Brawley type case. You don't see her all over the TV.

No, the DNA is a game changer as a completely fraudulent claim. But, you can't yet discount a bad breakup issue or a claim filed in anger.

The police misconduct also blunts the mismatched initial ID some, but its a question that she and the prosecution have to answer.

I think he gets a Zimmerman style arrest regardless at this point. Heisman is gone and we'll see if the arrest forces FSU to suspend him and what the BCS standings look like.

It's hard to imagine this is non-fiction.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

We have no idea where the 5'9 description comes from. A cop could have fed that to her to exonerate Winston. A cop in an interrogation room could have gotten the victim to describe Zoo as the assailant if he wanted to. The fact that they talked the victim out of pursuing charges, and it turns out there is a DNA match basically shreds the credibility of every cop that touched this case.

I can't imagine what the two affidavits could speak to now that there is DNA evidence. Did they witness her give consent?

 

[Jax Husky]

No, the DNA is a game changer as a completely fraudulent claim. But, you can't yet discount a bad breakup issue or a claim filed in anger.

The police misconduct also blunts the mismatched initial ID some, but its a question that she and the prosecution have to answer.

I think he gets a Zimmerman style arrest regardless at this point. Heisman is gone and we'll see if the arrest forces FSU to suspend him and what the BCS standings look like.

It's hard to imagine this is non-fiction.

Whether you believe they will enforce it or not, FSU has a school policy that anyone arrested for a felony is suspended immediately without question.

Also, the fact that she tried to report this when (or near the time) it happened, but was told not to pursue is going to give her a LOT of credibility with a jury.

 

[ZooCougar]

The Oakland Raiders are already interested in signing him.

 

[Husky25]

Are redshirt freshman who don't play famous? Are you saying this girl figured this kid (who wasn't even starting) was destined to be an All-American QB.

You can go back many decades and find only 2 FSU QBs who became famous (but then didn't pan out in the NFL). Chris Weinke and Charlie Ward.
If this is really what she was thinking, she may be hired on as a scout.

Casey Weldon feels left out.

 

[Jax Husky]

Casey Weldon feels left out.

As do Chris Rix and Adrian McPherson

 

[StoweD210]

The Oakland Raiders are already interested in signing him.

Steelers?

 

[billybud]

Vikings...the sex boat scandal...Duante Culpepper (anothe QB from a Florida school) got caught up in it.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Whether you believe they will enforce it or not, FSU has a school policy that anyone arrested for a felony is suspended immediately without question.

ESPN did state that FSU does have a loophole in the case of extraordinary circumstances that the suspension can be waived. I am guessing that a National Championship Game in football and possible Heisman Trophy count in Tallahassee as Extraordinary circumstances.

 

[Colt house75]

yesterday morning, mentioned that in the next 4 weeks, there would be a "consensual statement" issued. Last night, our buddies at ESPN announced the attorneys
had indicated yesterday in the afternoon, that there was a consensual encounter.
DOES ANYBODY HERE FEEL LIKE WE ARE GETTING PLAYED, (1)like in the SANDUSKY case and (2) that ESPN is and can manipulate the BCS title game to
an ALABAMA/Baylor or BAMA/Ohio State depending on who will get them the higher TV ratings????

 

[Husky25]

yesterday morning, mentioned that in the next 4 weeks, there would be a "consensual statement" issued. Last night, our buddies at ESPN announced the attorneys
had indicated yesterday in the afternoon, that there was a consensual encounter.
DOES ANYBODY HERE FEEL LIKE WE ARE GETTING PLAYED, (1)like in the SANDUSKY case and (2) that ESPN is and can manipulate the BCS title game to
an ALABAMA/Baylor or BAMA/Ohio State depending on who will get them the higher TV ratings????

If ESPN is using a crime that is so heinous and under-reported as it is to gain a 1/2 point in the overnights, then all involved should be fired and the ring leaders should probably be thrown in jail.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

ESPN did state that FSU does have a loophole in the case of extraordinary circumstances that the suspension can be waived. I am guessing that a National Championship Game in football and possible Heisman Trophy count in Tallahassee as Extraordinary circumstances.

I'd be OK with that. However, as an alternative sanction, at the conclusion of the NC game, immediately forfeits their right to be in any of the Power 5 conferences and is replaced in the ACC by UConn.

 

[Chin Diesel]

If ESPN is using a crime that is so heinous and under-reported as it is to gain a 1/2 point in the overnights, then all involved should be fired and the ring leaders should probably be thrown in jail.

The question wasn't would it be worth it or is it legal. The question was do you think they would do it.

I don't know. But grown men have gone down over smaller payouts than this.