OT: End of an Era

[msf22b]

I don't know if it looks like it to you but Mariano Rivera seems like he's pitching on fumes these days.
Just, barely got out of today's game.
Last couple of outings: velocity is down and pitches seem fat and hittable.

 

[Bezzz]

Today was an adventure, but there was not one hard-hit ball in the Angel's 9th. Mo kept jamming every batter but every hit was a dying duck dropping in front of the outfielders. Thought for sure Pujols was going to go yard for the icing on the cake.

 

[RadyLady]

it's true that he is retiring after this year and will go down as one of the greats. He's my favorite Yankee

 

[doggydaddy]

I don't know if it looks like to you but Mariano Rivera seems like he's pitching on fumes these days.
Just, barely got out of today's game.
Last couple of outings: velocity is down and pitches seem fat and hittable.

Boy, we always end up on opposite sides of a discussion.

End of an era? Yes, because he is retiring, not based on effectiveness.

He has 24 saves in 25 chances. ERA is still great at 1.80. A strikeout an inning.

If you look at his career he struggle more when he comes in the game in the middle of the inning instead of starting an inning. That was the ase the last two games.

And as someone else said, no one hit the ball hard against him today.

He is the last thing the Yankees have to worry about.

 

[msf22b]

-

Boy, we always end up on opposite sides of a discussion.

End of an era? Yes, because he is retiring, not based on effectiveness.

He has 24 saves in 25 chances. ERA is still great at 1.80. A strikeout an inning.

If you look at his career he struggle more when he comes in the game in the middle of the inning instead of starting an inning. That was the ase the last two games.

And as someone else said, no one hit the ball hard against him today.

He is the last thing the Yankees have to worry about.

Your well known stats are indisputable
I went to the Saturday game against the Bosox and he was untouchable.

But I think it also goes to the differences in the way our minds work.
I'm intuitive and believe my eyes.
In any case, sports is about "what have you done for me lately." The past is important but like the investment guys always tell you is no guarantee of future performance.

The last few games Mariano's velocity is down (stopped being discussed by the announce team).
I just have the feeling (based on my eyes and intuition) that his effectiveness is smoke and mirrors and that soon his opponents will get on to it. Wouldn't be a big surprise. My goodness he's 43.

I remember as a kid when it happened to Don Newcombe and Warren Spahn. I was shocked when the National league caught up to their stuff.

Like many of my pronouncements over the last few, many unpopular, I hope I'm wrong. I love the guy.

 

[Alydar]

From memory he has always had problems coming in to one-sided games. I don't think he expected to be in this one when it was 6-0 going into the bottom of the ninth.

I realize he created a lot of his own mess but he struck out Albert the great with the bases loaded.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I'm not in a panic yet. Or about the Yankees' record.

 

[Sonny44]

He wanted to finish on an up note, not an injury. Unfortunately for us Yankee fans the team that he loved and served so well over the years is aging faster than he is. Not likely to be a happy ending for him.

 

[doggydaddy]

-

Your well known stats are indisputable
I went to the Saturday game against the Bosox and he was untouchable.

But I think it also goes to the differences in the way our minds work.
I'm intuitive and believe my eyes.
In any case, sports is about "what have you done for me lately." The past is important but like the investment guys always tell you is no guarantee of future performance.

The last few games Mariano's velocity is down (stopped being discussed by the announce team).
I just have the feeling (based on my eyes and intuition) that his effectiveness is smoke and mirrors and that soon his opponents will get on to it. Wouldn't be a big surprise. My goodness he's 43.

I remember as a kid when it happened to Don Newcombe and Warren Spahn. I was shocked when the National league caught up to their stuff.

Like many of my pronouncements over the last few, many unpopular, I hope I'm wrong. I love the guy.

As I said in another post, you can find any stats you want. Your eyes and intuition are not backed up by performance. These are his pitching stats for that last outing.

24 pitches.

4 at 91 mph
9 at 92 mph
6 at 93 mph
5 at 94 mph

Thats 92.5 average.

I see no change in his velocity compared to the last 4-5 years.

All his other stats are comparable.

I have read on various message boards the demise of Rivera every time he gives up a few runs. Sorry, but it's laughable.

 

[Kibitzer]

I recall vividly a TV interview with Goose Gossage a few years ago. He was asked about what caused his effectiveness as a closer to change so dramatically (from virtually invincible to very hittable) from one season to the next.

Goose held up his hand with his thumb and index finger about an inch or two apart, and said: "I lost about this much on my fast ball."

I'm not sure this applies to Mariano now, but I have often been reminded over the years of what Goose said as I have observed many pitchers morph from magnificent to mediocre overnight. They just lost "that much" off their fast ball.

 

[doggydaddy]

I'm not sure this applies to Mariano now, but I have often been reminded over the years of what Goose said as I have observed many pitchers morph from magnificent to mediocre overnight. They just lost "that much" off their fast ball.

Rivera is unique.

Up until 2007 he averaged around 94.

Right now he is averaging 92, same as 2008-present.

When his cutter is cutting (most of the time) he is still as good as ever. His control is impeccable. He has added a 4 seam fastball that runs back in to the batter, keeping them honest and off the plate (against righties).

His conditioning is amazing.

I wouldn't love for him to continue as long as he can just to see him throwing 90 mph at age 50.

But, sadly he is retiring after this season. I see no reason he won't be who he has been for the last few several years.

 

[msf22b]

I caught the tail end of an interesting discussion on the fan today.
I assume that some callers or experts had voiced concerns similar to mine.
The resident Yankee contributor noted that all three hits were off pitches in which Rivera had hit the exact spot wanted,
They were all blooped, could just as easily have been outs.
And that there was nothing to be concerned about.
The beauty of baseball is that we'll all know in a week or so.
And I'd be happy to eat my hat on this one.

 

[doggydaddy]

I caught the tail end of an interesting discussion on the fan today.
I assume that some callers or experts had voiced concerns similar to mine.
The resident Yankee contributor noted that all three hits were off pitches in which Rivera had hit the exact spot wanted,
They were all blooped, could just as easily have been outs.
And that there was nothing to be concerned about.
The beauty of baseball is that we'll all know in a week or so.
And I'd be happy to eat my hat on this one.

You were wrong about his velocity.

What exactly do you expect to happen in a week or so?

 

[msf22b]

If he's hittable, he'll be hit.
If he's his usually dominant self, that will be clear as well.
Sometimes, I'm happy to be wrong.

 

[doggydaddy]

If he's hittable, he'll be hit.
If he's his usually dominant self, that will be clear as well.
Sometimes, I'm happy to be wrong.

So, the fact that his velocity is not down, the fact that the three hits were jam shots and nothing that made him "hittable" as you said, and that his stats before this game, including mph were no different than the last 5 years doesn't convince you, but the next few outtings will?

Wow.

 

[msf22b]

You made good points re: velocity, quite splendid research.
But if in his next coupla outings, he gets racked then perhaps, I saw something, we'll know soon enough.
I actually think you very well be right on this one.
Patience and observation next.

 

[doggydaddy]

You made good points re: velocity, quite splendid research.
But if in his next coupla outings, he gets racked then perhaps, I saw something, we'll know soon enough.
I actually think you very well be right on this one.
Patience and observation next.

Whatever.

You saw his velocity down. It wasn't.
You saw him getting hit. But it was three bloop hits.

What else did you see that hasn't been explained?

 

[Icebear]

Take it to the baseball board.

 

[doggydaddy]

You made good points re: velocity, quite splendid research.
But if in his next coupla outings, he gets racked then perhaps, I saw something, we'll know soon enough.
I actually think you very well be right on this one.
Patience and observation next.

I observed that he went 1-2-3 today door another save striking out the last two.

Hit 93 on the black to finish the game.

 

[msf22b]

Didn't catch the game, relatives from Shanghai for lunch but clearly one check for Doggy

 

[doggydaddy]

Didn't catch the game, relatives from Shanghai for lunch but clearly one check for Doggy

It's not a check for me. It's a check for Mo.

Tonight, another 1-2-3 with a fly ball to right, a weak come backer to the mound and a foul pop to the catcher.

10 pitches. 92-93 mph.

 

[Fishy]

I find it hard to believe that someone could be watching Mariano this season and think that he's anything but the same dude we've always seen....which, by the way, is freaking amazing.

 

[msf22b]

Mariano looked really tough today w his new toy; a 2-seamer.

I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again.

Thanks for the note King.

 

[doggydaddy]

Mariano looked really tough today w his new toy; a 2-seamer.

I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again.

Thanks for the note King.

It's not a new toy.

I'm wrong plenty. I just try not to be wrong so publicly.

 

[doggydaddy]

Since his demise, Rivera has had 8 appearances, 7.1 innings, 5 hits, zero walks, zero runs.

1-0 with 5-5 on saves.