OT: Cycling great Jans Ullrich admits to doping...

[EricLA]

I know there was a lot of bad press for Armstrong and probably a lot of dislike and hatred as well, but even Ulrich admits "everyone was doing it so it was a level playing field". Maybe it puts in to perspective a bit what Armstrong actually accomplished, even if it is obviously tarnished

Ullrich, 1997 Tour De France winner, admits to doping

I found this quote interesting... "Almost everyone took performance-enhancing substances then. I took nothing that the others didn't also take," he was quoted as saying. "For me, fraud starts when I gain an advantage. That wasn't the case. I wanted to ensure equality of opportunities."

By the way, Ullrich took 2nd in 2000, 2001 and 2003, so with Armstrong losing his victories, Ullrich would have had 4 total, had he been clean. Not sure who they'd award it to now.

 

[SubbaBub]

To save time... every cyclist you ever heard of, every TDF winner, podium finisher, jersey winner, stage winner, team leader, and possibly TDF finisher doped. Many in the peloton are still doping.

Maybe the french guy they let win on Bastille Day every so often and a couple of Dutch guys didn't dope, but I'd doubt it.

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[meyers7]

By the way, Ullrich took 2nd in 2000, 2001 and 2003, so with Armstrong losing his victories, Ullrich would have had 4 total, had he been clean. Not sure who they'd award it to now.

After they stripped Armstrong of them, they've said they won't award it anyone. Guess they figured everyone was cheating too. This of course being the General Classification (Yellow jersey).


Also, the 2013 version starts this Satuday, June 29th.

 

[Vowelguy]

Maybe it puts in to perspective a bit what Armstrong actually accomplished, even if it is obviously tarnished

Armstrong lied and cheated over and over and over, and he profited handsomely. And he vigorously threatened anyone who dared question him.

Unless we find that he was under mind control of the aliens from planet Romulac, there's nothing to put in perspective until he returns all his ill-gotten winnings.

 

[UCONNfan1]

Armstrong lied and cheated over and over and over, and he profited handsomely. And he vigorously threatened anyone who dared question him.

Unless we find that he was under mind control of the aliens from planet Romulac, there's nothing to put in perspective until he returns all his ill-gotten winnings.

LOL So much anger! Yet everyone else was doing it. So I guess you can condemn him for being so emphatic in his own defense, but the reality is everyone else was doing it as well.

I get that in the court of public opinion, one will either like or dislike the guy and react accordingly to the facts brought up, but would you feel differently if Armstrong said "F* all of you - everyone did it and I only did it to level the playing field"?

 

[Vowelguy]

Lol. "Everybody was doing it" is a valid excuse in what universe?

 

[Icebear]

I know there was a lot of bad press for Armstrong and probably a lot of dislike and hatred as well, but even Ulrich admits "everyone was doing it so it was a level playing field". Maybe it puts in to perspective a bit what Armstrong actually accomplished, even if it is obviously tarnished

Ullrich, 1997 Tour De France winner, admits to doping

I found this quote interesting... "Almost everyone took performance-enhancing substances then. I took nothing that the others didn't also take," he was quoted as saying. "For me, fraud starts when I gain an advantage. That wasn't the case. I wanted to ensure equality of opportunities."

By the way, Ullrich took 2nd in 2000, 2001 and 2003, so with Armstrong losing his victories, Ullrich would have had 4 total, had he been clean. Not sure who they'd award it to now.

I hear there is a 4 year old on a tricycle in the French Alps who is reportedly clean.

 

[pap49cba]

This 'sport' has become a joke.

 

[UCONNfan1]

Lol. "Everybody was doing it" is a valid excuse in what universe?

So apparently you wouldn't have cared had he used that excuse either. So I certainly expect you to be as disgusted with the entire sport since everyone was doing it, and since it's no excuse, they are all deserving to be punished...

 

[ThisJustIn]

The ethical choice of facing "everyone's cheating so I need to cheat, too" would be to call a press conference and blow a whistle.

Not easy, no. And certainly, there are some who would have called him a "snitch." As if there is honor in protecting those who violate rules.

Yes, rules can seem capricious. And, of course, since many rules were made in response to folks getting AROUND rules, rules are often associated with red tape.

Show me a better system. Like, for instance, someone having to courage to step up and say, "Everyone is breaking the rules, I'm speaking up and damn the consequences."

 

[msf22b]

Not much different in Baseball except that only half the players are doing it (or were).

 

[SubbaBub]

Not much different in Baseball except that only half the players are doing it (or were).

Anyone who hit 40HR or more than once or anyone who hit more than twice their yearly HR average. Plus any pitcher who started throwing faster at any point in their career.

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[meyers7]

Armstrong lied and cheated over and over and over, and he profited handsomely. And he vigorously threatened anyone who dared question him.

All true.

Unless we find that he was under mind control of the aliens from planet Romulac, there's nothing to put in perspective until he returns all his ill-gotten winnings.

However, one can put in perspective that while everyone was cheating, ( i.e. although wrong, it was an even playing field, except for a few here and there), Armstrong did dominate the sport - but not due to his cheating. That's the perspective part. While everyone was cheating, he was still that much better than everyone. At least in that time period. To compare him to LeMond, Indurain, Merckx, yea that's not really fair. (probably? - not sure how clean the sport has ever been??)

 

[Vowelguy]

However, one can put in perspective that while everyone was cheating, ( i.e. although wrong, it was an even playing field, except for a few here and there), Armstrong did dominate the sport - but not due to his cheating.

You don't know that. Maybe he was just a superior cheater.

 

[meyers7]

You don't know that. Maybe he was just a superior cheater.

Either way. He was better on a level playing field. Even with everyone having the same advantage (ability to cheat and not get caught), he won 7 in a row. That's pretty damn good.

He's still a major cheat, jerk, jack@ss if you will. But he was a great cyclist, competitor.

 

[Vowelguy]

Akin to saying that what Bernie Madoff did was pretty damn good, since compared to all the other unethical financial advisors, he made the most money.

 

[meyers7]

Akin to saying that what Bernie Madoff did was pretty damn good, since compared to all the other unethical financial advisors, he made the most money.

Yea, pretty much. Of course not as good as our own Soc Sec System. Now that's a ponzi scheme.