OT: Brady out for 4 and Pats lose a first round pick. Nm

[Sportsman5]

If you want to post with other like-minded people who believe the Pat's line of BS, maybe you should post over on the Boston College board.

i'm fine with this. it's fun to go back and fourth. so far i'm the only one presenting any sort of reasonable argument based on evidence. But eventually someone will post a quote. obviously i won the first argument about the text so we can move onto the next thing.

 

[Johnny Mac]

.... You clearly just read a one page article and have ZERO context.....

Actually, I cut and pasted that quote directly from the Patriots report. BTW, thank you for the link.

Sport5, I understand your love for Tom Brady. I really do. I had the same love for Lance Armstrong.

 

[Sportsman5]

Actually, I cut and pasted that quote directly from the Patriots report. BTW, thank you for the link.

Sport5, I understand your love for Tom Brady. I really do. I had the same love for Lance Armstrong.

nice quote. try better again next time. no matter what deflator referred to that one time it was mentioned it certainly had nothing to do with football. period.

please move onto a point that could be debatable based on the evidence.

 

[CTMike]

There is so much pre-supposition of guilt, so much confirmation bias... It's really amazing. It's very simple : find the hard evidence that Brady ordered anyone to deflate anything to less than 12.5. It literally does not exist. The balls were measured within expected values according to science and the recollected gauge used by the official. The reason given for using the word "deflate" is obvious BS - but that doesn't trump science.

 

[Johnny Mac]

Sport, when Brady, in an effort to put this issue behind him and move forward, admits that he ordered the code red, you're going to need therapy. I know some people in your area that can help.

 

[Sportsman5]

Sport, when Brady, in an effort to put this issue behind him and move forward, admits that he ordered the code red, you're going to need therapy. I know some people in your area that can help.

i'm open to changing my mind about the issue if the evidence changes.

 

[Johnny Mac]

i'm open to changing my mind about the issue if the evidence changes.

Love your passion, Sport5.

 

[CL82]

Really has nothing to do with my point at all.

Really? Gee I thought it was insightful to link to examples of egregious overreach.

 

[Adios]

There is so much pre-supposition of guilt, so much confirmation bias... It's really amazing. It's very simple : find the hard evidence that Brady ordered anyone to deflate anything to less than 12.5. It literally does not exist. The balls were measured within expected values according to science and the recollected gauge used by the official. The reason given for using the word "deflate" is obvious BS - but that doesn't trump science.

Goodell is not going to last long. He's making Bettman look like genius.

 

[Husky25]

Goodell is not going to last long. He's making Bettman look like genius.

Most people outside the six northeastern most states approve of the penalty. The issue becomes: what happens when their team gets caught?

 

[Dooley]

Most people outside the six northeastern most states approve of the penalty. The issue becomes: what happens when their team gets caught?

Yup. And I'm sure most people inside the six northeastern states will be rooting for similarly excessive penalties to the next team that gets caught cheating. Cincinnati Bengals, anyone???

 

[Husky25]

Yup. And I'm sure most people inside the six northeastern states will be rooting for similarly excessive penalties to the next team that gets caught cheating. Cincinnati Bengals, anyone???

Washington lost $36 Million off their salary cap over 2 years (Dallas was penalized $10 Million over 2 years) for not breaking a salary rule (there was no cap, and no one said boo.

 

[Sportsman5]

Most people outside the six northeastern most states approve of the penalty. The issue becomes: what happens when their team gets caught?

those polls were taken before the patriots disproved many things in the wells report using facts that we didn't know when the wells report was published. Will most people by too lazy to get the facts and change their mind? yes. will others get the facts and still not change their mind because they hate the patriots? yes.

If Goodell ends up actually being the "unbiased" arbitrator instead of eventually appointing someone else, then the players union and NFL will not be happy. Last time there was a situation like this Goodell upheld or barely reduced his penalty at all, but then an unbiased arbitrator threw out all of the player suspensions and fines for bounty gate. Proving that the league office is insane and unreasonable.

Another strike against goodell and the NFL offices is the pats disclosed information about the NFL league office and it's officials such as video surveillance of multiple league officials (including one of the ones specifically notified about the potential ball issue) watch the pats ball boy take the balls out to the field by himself and do absolutely nothing about it. They also called out the NFL for mistakes they made in the letter sent to the pats, which would bring into major question the accuracy of the numbers the NFL uses to try to incriminate the pats.

 

[Husky25]

If Goodell ends up actually being the "unbiased" arbitrator instead of eventually appointing someone else, then the players union and NFL will not be happy. Last time there was a situation like this Goodell upheld or barely reduced his penalty at all, but then an unbiased arbitrator threw out all of the player suspensions and fines for bounty gate. Proving that the league office is insane and unreasonable.

I got an alert this morning on my phone that Goodell already appointed himself the unbiased arbiter. Buckle up, Sports Fans. Vince McMahon presiding.

 

[J187Money]

The point about the gauges is very valid. The problem I have with the report are statements like this:

In short, increased Brady-Jastremski communications in the days following the AFC Championship Game do not make it more likely than not that there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing. They are totally consistent with complete innocence. It is only speculation to conclude otherwise. Nonetheless, it forms part of the report’s stated rationale for its findings against Mr. Brady.

They read like a statement from the guy that is trying to convince his wife that he wasn't in a strip bar - that somehow he came home covered in glitter for some other plausible reason.

This report could have been much shorter, focused on a few key points - it comes off really whiny.

-----------

Btw I have no dog in this fight. I'm not a Pats fan, but spend a lot of time around people that are close to Kraft and some of the players - I have no idea if they are guilty, nor do I care. I think the league went too far, and I also think the Pats fans are overly hysterical about this. And I don't think the punishment fits the crime, even if it is a crime. This could never happen if the NFL just handled the balls themselves. It isn't like they don't have enough money to have control over the balls. Silly.

 

[CL82]

I'm amazed at how many people seem fixated on how he played, what his stats were, etc. To me this seems to be more about his, or any other quarterback's comfort level. Take a football out of the box, throw it around. Most of you would probably like to deflate it a little, some of you wouldn't. The things that stand out to me are the facts that he didn't need to deflate footballs to play at a high level and the ridiculous manner in which the Pats conducted themselves. Screaming about what Brady had to "endure" and demanding apologies, etc. In my opinion, it turned what should have been a molehill into a mountain. This shouldn't have been a 4 game suspension based on the offense and I think that the Pats just plain made it worse on themselves.

This was Tom's comment that I replied to:

I have been a Dolphins fan since the late 60's, do I don't really care about the Pats. It mostly BS, but I'll be interested in seeing what happens to Brady's numbers once he returns from the suspension. He'll have to play with regulation balls, like it or not.
If he is close to his career average, fine. If not, I'll smile every time I see an asterisk on his stat sheet.

That's what generated my response. The notion that playing with balls inflated to 12.5, the legal minimum and Brady's stated preference may possibly impact his stats, is, to say the least, highly unlikely.

 

[Jerry1714]

i'm fine with this. it's fun to go back and fourth. so far i'm the only one presenting any sort of reasonable argument based on evidence. But eventually someone will post a quote. obviously i won the first argument about the text so we can move onto the next thing.

wow, you really are not bright.

 

[CL82]

The point about the gauges is very valid. The problem I have with the report are statements like this:

In short, increased Brady-Jastremski communications in the days following the AFC Championship Game do not make it more likely than not that there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing. They are totally consistent with complete innocence. It is only speculation to conclude otherwise. Nonetheless, it forms part of the report’s stated rationale for its findings against Mr. Brady.

They read like a statement from the guy that is trying to convince his wife that he wasn't in a strip bar - that somehow he came home covered in glitter for some other plausible reason.

This report could have been much shorter, focused on a few key points - it comes off really whiny.

-----------

Btw I have no dog in this fight. I'm not a Pats fan, but spend a lot of time around people that are close to Kraft and some of the players - I have no idea if they are guilty, nor do I care. I think the league went too far, and I also think the Pats fans are overly hysterical about this. And I don't think the punishment fits the crime, even if it is a crime. This could never happen if the NFL just handled the balls themselves. It isn't like they don't have enough money to have control over the balls. Silly.

When viewed through the right lens, it is a little easier to reconcile the two reports. Each document is an adversarial statement looking to advance a view point. The Pat's rebuttal looks to create doubt in every facet of the Wells report and the Wells report looks to take even benign facts and cast them in a light that is least favorable to Brady and the Pats. I believe it was @Husky25 who first made the observation that the Wells report was always intended to be a prosecutorial argument rather than a neutral finding of fact. It is good observation that helps to make sense of the document.

Of the two, I find the Pats piece, to be the more successful, but that analysis is always going to be impacted by rooting interest.

 

[Sportsman5]

The point about the gauges is very valid. The problem I have with the report are statements like this:

In short, increased Brady-Jastremski communications in the days following the AFC Championship Game do not make it more likely than not that there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing. They are totally consistent with complete innocence. It is only speculation to conclude otherwise. Nonetheless, it forms part of the report’s stated rationale for its findings against Mr. Brady.

They read like a statement from the guy that is trying to convince his wife that he wasn't in a strip bar - that somehow he came home covered in glitter for some other plausible reason.

This report could have been much shorter, focused on a few key points - it comes off really whiny.

-----------

Btw I have no dog in this fight. I'm not a Pats fan, but spend a lot of time around people that are close to Kraft and some of the players - I have no idea if they are guilty, nor do I care. I think the league went too far, and I also think the Pats fans are overly hysterical about this. And I don't think the punishment fits the crime, even if it is a crime. This could never happen if the NFL just handled the balls themselves. It isn't like they don't have enough money to have control over the balls. Silly.

I agree that they made a few PR mistakes. They have a ton of clear and indisputable evidence in their favor. They should have left out a few unnecessary things and simply allowed the facts to speak for themselves.

I also agree that there should have been another report in addition to the longer one that was about 1000 words summarizing the key points to educate the general public. The 20,000 word one was obviously too long for most people to read and the articles written by people like ESPN are too short and don't hit upon some of the relevant points that make the NFL look awful. Clearly this was on purpose and I don't blame ESPN because they need a great relationship with the NFL.

 

[Sportsman5]

wow, you really are not bright.

haha. I chose to gather all the facts and use quotes to back up my points. Then I say I am open to debate AND changing my mind if someone can present even a decent counter argument using quotes and facts.

However, I am not bright. Thanks for the insight.

 

[J187Money]

So when I attend the executive combine at Foxboro and catch passes from Brady, what are the odds if I make a joke about the balls being too soft that he puts one in the back of my ear?

 

[bmayuc]

haha. I chose to gather all the facts and use quotes to back up my points. Then I say I am open to debate AND changing my mind if someone can present even a decent counter argument using quotes and facts.

However, I am not bright. Thanks for the insight.

It makes me sad that real human people are so invested, and spend so much of their time/energy defending a football player for a crime that it doesn't really matter if he did it or not, because you have no control over the outcome and it's a game that really has no importance in the scheme of life.

But yes, Bradyt is guilty and the Pats are awful at coverup and awful at PR.

 

[Jerry1714]

haha. I chose to gather all the facts and use quotes to back up my points. Then I say I am open to debate AND changing my mind if someone can present even a decent counter argument using quotes and facts.

However, I am not bright. Thanks for the insight.

how you came to the conclusion you did with the "facts" and quotes you gathered shows you are not bright.

 

[Rondogg]

The NFL spent $3-$4 MILLION dollars to investigate ball tampering which apparently is a $25k fine. Why would they do that if they didn't have an agenda?

 

[superjohn]

I agree that they made a few PR mistakes. They have a ton of clear and indisputable evidence in their favor. They should have left out a few unnecessary things and simply allowed the facts to speak for themselves.

I also agree that there should have been another report in addition to the longer one that was about 1000 words summarizing the key points to educate the general public. The 20,000 word one was obviously too long for most people to read and the articles written by people like ESPN are too short and don't hit upon some of the relevant points that make the NFL look awful. Clearly this was on purpose and I don't blame ESPN because they need a great relationship with the NFL.

So what should the Patriots have left out of their rebuttal, pretell?