OT: Brady out for 4 and Pats lose a first round pick. Nm

[Bonehead]

You are thick in the head.

The judge, despite the fact that his purview was only about the arbitration procedures, decided to go into the actual evidence--outside his purview. He ripped the NFL apart on deflation. Kessler was heard to utter in open court, "That's an excellent point, your honor." The ruing was about arbitration. Inopen court, the NFL was shocked that the case against Brady being aware of deflating was eviscerated by the judge, even though it had little to do with what the judge was charged with doing.

Read and educate yourself: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/12/nfl-deflategate-tom-brady-roger-goodell-judge-berman-hearing

In particular, point #1:

I would think you would be just as thick as I, since you still ignore the ruling.


He may have ripped, questioned, rolled his eyes and passed gas...

If its not in the ruling it hasn't been ruled on. I am not sure how else to state this so maybe you would see where I am coming from.
Evidence is heard, then a ruling is made. I read 'punishment doesn't fit crime' and not 'Brady is innocent of any involvement of deflation, if there was deflation.

I hadn't seen it before your post and won't get a chance to really look at until tomorrow evening, but Berman's basis for the ruling is procedural (see pages 20 and 21) because in a judicial review of an arbitration, the judge doesn't make rulings about findings of fact, but there are plenty of good nuggets in there that will severely curtail the NFL's ability to sanction Brady.

Check out the discussion at page 25 entitled "No Notice of Discernible Infraction." That severely limits the NFL from taking any action against Brady for the vague 'generally aware' language. Couple that with the 'no notice of sanction vs. fine' language of the following section and most the NFL can do is fine Brady for lack of cooperation (and it might be stuck with just a warning to the club) and even that would only be after giving Brady access to Pash and the investigative file, which would undoubtedly give rise to more problems for them.

Nah, Boney this was a bitch slap by the judge. I know that you don't have a dog in this hunt other than trolling Pat fans, but you might just need to find a new hobby. This thing is over.


(The foregoing was based on a very quick scan of the decision. If I see anything materially different when I read the report, I'll post about it.)

Well stated - and like yourself I didn't get all the way through it and posted on how I read the ruling.

Ill let upstater break it down once he has the time to fine tooth comb it -

 

[Nostical]

Great decision. Kraft ought to now shame the league into having them donate his olive-branch $1M fine to charity. And he should sit with Goodell to discuss the lost draft picks. What happened here was as plain as day. Brady told the ball boys he wanted the low end of the psi. They had needles, not highly calibrated equipment . That, plus the cold weather, caused an under inflation--but the Judge understood one important point. Brady played better when those balls weren't in play. Small fine--or pre-game warningshould have happened.This was a witch hunt. Thank goodness for fair, impartial Judges.

 

[intlzncster]

This is from ESPN. The lawyers on the board can speak to it far better than I.

On Thursday morning, Tom Brady's four-game suspension was vacated by a federal judge. Here are five highlights from U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman's ruling.

The Court finds Brady had no notice that he could receive a four-game suspension for general awareness of ball deflation by others or participation in any scheme to deflate footballs, and noncooperation with the ensuing investigation. Brady also had no notice that his discipline would be the equivalent of the discipline imposed upon a player who used performance-enhancing drugs.

The Court finds the NFL's steroid policy cannot reasonably be used as a comparator for Brady's four-game suspension for alleged ball deflation by others in the first half of the AFC Championship Game and for noncooperation in the ensuing investigation.

Commissioner Roger Goodell's reliance on notice of broad CBA “conduct detrimental” policy -- as opposed to specific player policies regarding equipment violations -- to impose discipline upon Brady is legally misplaced.

The Court finds Goodell's denial of the Players Association's motion to produce certain investigative files, including notes of witness interviews, for Brady's use at the arbitral hearing was fundamentally unfair and that Brady was prejudiced as a result. The interview notes were, at the very least, the basis for the Wells Report, and Brady was prejudiced by his lack of access to them.

For the reasons stated herein, the Management Council's motion to confirm the arbitration award is denied and the Players Association's motion to vacate the arbitration award is granted. Brady's four-game suspension is vacated, effective immediately. The Clerk is respectfully requested to close cases 15 Civ. 5916 and 15 Civ. 5982.

 

[Waquoit]

Still searching the ruling for Tom is innocent

And you won't see that anywhere. No one is ever ruled innocent, they are found not guilty.

 

[Bonehead]

This is from ESPN. The lawyers on the board can speak to it far better than I.

On Thursday morning, Tom Brady's four-game suspension was vacated by a federal judge. Here are five highlights from U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman's ruling.

The Court finds Brady had no notice that he could receive a four-game suspension for general awareness of ball deflation by others or participation in any scheme to deflate footballs, and noncooperation with the ensuing investigation. Brady also had no notice that his discipline would be the equivalent of the discipline imposed upon a player who used performance-enhancing drugs.

The Court finds the NFL's steroid policy cannot reasonably be used as a comparator for Brady's four-game suspension for alleged ball deflation by others in the first half of the AFC Championship Game and for noncooperation in the ensuing investigation.

Commissioner Roger Goodell's reliance on notice of broad CBA “conduct detrimental” policy -- as opposed to specific player policies regarding equipment violations -- to impose discipline upon Brady is legally misplaced.

The Court finds Goodell's denial of the Players Association's motion to produce certain investigative files, including notes of witness interviews, for Brady's use at the arbitral hearing was fundamentally unfair and that Brady was prejudiced as a result. The interview notes were, at the very least, the basis for the Wells Report, and Brady was prejudiced by his lack of access to them.

For the reasons stated herein, the Management Council's motion to confirm the arbitration award is denied and the Players Association's motion to vacate the arbitration award is granted. Brady's four-game suspension is vacated, effective immediately. The Clerk is respectfully requested to close cases 15 Civ. 5916 and 15 Civ. 5982.

You would think finding Brady NOT GUILTY would be a highlight...

And you won't see that anywhere. No one is ever ruled innocent, they are found not guilty.

Thanks for correcting me.

Still searching through the ruling for 'Tom is NOT GUILTY' but that's hard to do when that is NOT what the case was about, right?
wrong?

 

[Waquoit]

You would think finding Brady NOT GUILTY would be a highlight...



Thanks for correcting me.

Still searching through the ruling for 'Tom is NOT GUILTY' but that's hard to do when that is NOT what the case was about, right?
wrong?

Like upstater posted:

Judge Berman: What is the evidence of a scheme or a conspiracy?
Daniel Nash (NFL attorney): There is clear evidence in the texts (between McNally and Jastremski) that (Brady) knew...
Berman: On January 18?
Nash: No

That carries no weight with you? You can't make the mental leap that means not guilty? What did you get on your SAT's?

 

[Bonehead]

Like upstater posted:

Judge Berman: What is the evidence of a scheme or a conspiracy?
Daniel Nash (NFL attorney): There is clear evidence in the texts (between McNally and Jastremski) that (Brady) knew...
Berman: On January 18?
Nash: No

That carries no weight with you? You can't make the mental leap that means not guilty? What did you get on your SAT's?

I don't know what I got on my SAT's - but I qualified expert on rifle range.

What did you get on your SAT's?

Was this case that Judge Berman ruled on about Toms involvement in deflating balls - YES or NO?

If yes, why does the ruling NOT state this? Why are the 5 takeaways for the 'experts' the same as mine and not about his innocence or guilt?

 

[upstater]

Like upstater posted:

Judge Berman: What is the evidence of a scheme or a conspiracy?
Daniel Nash (NFL attorney): There is clear evidence in the texts (between McNally and Jastremski) that (Brady) knew...
Berman: On January 18?
Nash: No

That carries no weight with you? You can't make the mental leap that means not guilty? What did you get on your SAT's?

The NFL counsel is sitting here telling the judge there is NO evidence at all (even by the jokingly laughable standard the NFL uses to define "evidence") of anything at all happening on January 18th, and we're supposed to ask, "Is Brady innocent?"

Is Brady innocent of what? The NFL counsel said there is nothing about Jan 18th.

Since Bonehead brought up the Catholic thing earlier (which makes absolutely no sense since I never have even typed the word Catholic on this board), maybe we're to talk about Brady's original sin? The fact that he was conceived?

 

[Bonehead]

Nah, Boney this was a bitch slap by the judge. I know that you don't have a dog in this hunt other than trolling Pat fans, but you might just need to find a new hobby. This thing is over.

Looks like I get a few more months...

"We are grateful to Judge Berman for hearing this matter, but respectfully disagree with today's decision. We will appeal today's ruling in order to uphold the collectively bargained responsibility to protect the integrity of the game," Goodell wrote. "The commissioner's responsibility to secure the competitive fairness of our game is a paramount principle, and the league and our 32 clubs will continue to pursue a path to that end. While the legal phase of this process continues, we look forward to focusing on football and the opening of the regular season."

 

[CL82]

I don't know what I got on my SAT's - but I qualified expert on rifle range.

What did you get on your SAT's?

Was this case that Judge Berman ruled on about Toms involvement in deflating balls - YES or NO?

If yes, why does the ruling NOT state this? Why are the 5 takeaways for the 'experts' the same as mine and not about his innocence or guilt?

Are these the same the same "experts" who said that the judge beating the crap out of the NFL in the hearing was a sign that he was going to rule in their favor, lol? If so, you might want poll a different bunch.

I know you know the answer because we discussed it above, but...
"Berman's basis for the ruling is procedural (see pages 20 and 21) because in a judicial review of an arbitration, the judge doesn't make rulings about findings of fact, but there are plenty of good nuggets in there that will severely curtail the NFL's ability to sanction Brady."

But that will be the last time I'll seriously respond to you, since I know you actually get what a beat down of the NFL the decision was.

Just curious with what weapons are you qualified as an expert? (And for that matter are you using that specifically or generically? I think it goes Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert, right?)

My father in law had "marksman" medals for rifle, machine gun and something else which eludes me at the moment- maybe pistol, in WWII. He carried a BAR at the the start of his deployment but handed it off when the first wave of replacements came in.

 

[Bonehead]

The NFL counsel is sitting here telling the judge there is NO evidence at all (even by the jokingly laughable standard the NFL uses to define "evidence") of anything at all happening on January 18th, and we're supposed to ask, "Is Brady innocent?"

Is Brady innocent of what? The NFL counsel said there is nothing about Jan 18th.

Since Bonehead brought up the Catholic thing earlier (which makes absolutely no sense since I never have even typed the word Catholic on this board), maybe we're to talk about Brady's original sin? The fact that he was conceived?

So was Joe Pa a good man?
Was he Catholic?
Was he a good catholic man?

 

[CL82]

Looks like I get a few more months...

"We are grateful to Judge Berman for hearing this matter, but respectfully disagree with today's decision. We will appeal today's ruling in order to uphold the collectively bargained responsibility to protect the integrity of the game," Goodell wrote. "The commissioner's responsibility to secure the competitive fairness of our game is a paramount principle, and the league and our 32 clubs will continue to pursue a path to that end. While the legal phase of this process continues, we look forward to focusing on football and the opening of the regular season."

Lol, I almost feel sorry for you...

Goodell has painted himself into a corner. Things will just keep getting worse for him.

 

[Bonehead]

Just curious with what weapons are you qualified as an expert? (And for that matter are you using that specifically or generically? I think it goes Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert, right?)

My father in law had "marksman" medals for rifle, machine gun and something else which eludes me at the moment- maybe pistol, in WWII. He carried a BAR at the the start of his deployment but handed it off when the first wave of replacements came in.

You are correct on the rankings and order - I think the best thing that helped me was my lack of rifle/gun knowledge going in...

I wasn't the 'SAT' type of kid through HS although I was in prep classes and such, but later earned my degree from Hawaii Pacific University.

I qualified expert all 5 of my USMC years with the M16.

Shooting from 200, 300, and 500 yareds, no scope!

The last two years of my service I had to qualify with Pistol (9MM) as I was the NCO that would bring the Marines convicted of crimes to Ford Island - brig in Hawaii. Expert as well but will admit pistol more difficult. Trained by second runner up to the 92 Olympics.

BAR??

 

[CL82]

You are correct on the rankings and order - I think the best thing that helped me was my lack of rifle/gun knowledge going in...

I wasn't the 'SAT' type of kid through HS although I was in prep classes and such, but later earned my degree from Hawaii Pacific University.

I qualified expert all 5 of my USMC years with the M16.

Shooting from 200, 300, and 500 yareds, no scope!

The last two years of my service I had to qualify with Pistol (9MM) as I was the NCO that would bring the Marines convicted of crimes to Ford Island - brig in Hawaii. Expert as well but will admit pistol more difficult. Trained by second runner up to the 92 Olympics.

BAR??

Interesting. Thanks for your service and sharing a bit about it.

BAR is Browning Automatic Rifle.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

 

[Eskapeesto]

Mike Francesa, Jets/Giants fans et. al.

 

[Husky25]

Brady was not found innocent because rarely is that ever determined. It's next to impossible to prove a negative.

This whole thing comes down to Occam's Razor, but that doesn't provide for billable hours and it doesn't win the news cycle in the off-season.

 

[Bonehead]

It's alive!!

;-)

Rumors are Brady starring down barrel of a 2-1 loss on appeal. Rumor.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/03/03/deflategate-appeal-nfl-tom-brady-roger-goodell

 

[CL82]

It's alive!!

;-)

Rumors are Brady starring down barrel of a 2-1 loss on appeal. Rumor.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/03/03/deflategate-appeal-nfl-tom-brady-roger-goodell

SI's Micheal McCann

I dub thee not credible as a expert due to your questionable choice of hairstyle.

 

[upstater]

SI's Micheal McCann

I dub thee not credible as a expert due to your questionable choice of hairstyle.

Actually, he has been pretty thorough throughout. He's the guy that has thought Goodell was bogus from the start. He's also the guy that brought the MIT professor's experiment into the limelight.

Here is Sally Jenkins's take at the Washington Post, an odd amicus curiae was sent by a heavy hitter: https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...003de0-e172-11e5-8d98-4b3d9215ade1_story.html

 

[huskypantz]

Excellent article, thanks. This note pretty much sums up the thoughts of patriot nation.

“My theory is they thought it was true and wanted it to be true, and then they became committed to it,” Blecker says. “And then confirmation bias appeared.”