OT: Brady out for 4 and Pats lose a first round pick. Nm | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: Brady out for 4 and Pats lose a first round pick. Nm

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uconnric said:
This is not a criminal investigation. Preponderance of the evidence is the standard. Wells found that it was more likely than not that it was done with Brady's direction and by the team's equipment people, hence the team is liable.
It's pretty obvious what happened and that the standard of proof was correctly applied.
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Sorry your wrong. Weak case even on lower standard. That was my point
 
scdono said:
Sorry your wrong. Weak case even on lower standard. That was my point
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You being a trial lawyer is of no consequence to this case, it's not a criminal case. Also as a trial lawyer you should know the difference between your and you're.
 
Nah. I'm just typing on a message board. I actually try both civil and criminal cases. I know that's obnoxious to say but so are most of these comments. I'm sorry the case is utterly ridiculous and Wells should be embarrassed
 
Ray Rice gets two games for knocking his fiancé unconscious. Tom Brady gets four games (over $2 million in salary) for wanting footballs slightly below 12.5 psi, which is a completely arbitrary number.
 
Redding Husky said:
Ray Rice gets two games for knocking his fiancé unconscious. Tom Brady gets four games (over $2 million in salary) for wanting footballs slightly below 12.5 psi, which is a completely arbitrary number.
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Rice's transgressions can be handled by the criminal process. Brady's have to do with the integrity of the game, but the Patriots play pretty fast and loose in that area. You can not compare the two incidents, it's just a lame attempt to defend Brady.
 
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I'm just happy they lost a first round pick.... Karma's a bitch

Sincerely,
Raider fan who's still salty about the "tuck rule"
 
Brady probably knew and may have been complicit. BUT, the report does not present a shred of direct evidence that Brady knew or was involved. Its all circumstantial (really speculation). This is a hatchet job by "independent investigator" Ted Wells whose law firm represents the NFL in defending against concussion lawsuits. Several million dollars in lawyer fees later, Wells' righteous indignation doesn't dispose of the basic fact there is a blatant conflict of interest and he is not in any way shape or form independent. He make think he is, but he is not as a matter of fact. If the NFL had any sense they would fine Brady for noncooperation, but they have no basis to conclude Brady intentionally violated the rules. In fact, I would argue the NFL is open to a law suit for defamation.
 
BlueDogs said:
Brady probably knew and may have been complicit. BUT, the report does not present a shred of direct evidence that Brady knew or was involved. Its all circumstantial (really speculation).
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Same could be said for Aaron Hernandez in his trial for 1st degree Murder, although two totally different circumstances... He too was convicted on circumstantial evidence, so it's not totally unfounded for anyone (in this case Brady) to get the axe on circumstantial evidence as well. He isn't the first, and he won't be the last either. Tom Teriffic was playing with fire, and he got burned.... it happens
 
HuskyHawk said:
I really wish people would scrutinize the "evidence" more carefully.

There were two pressure gauges used. One read significantly higher than the other. The referee's "best recollection" is that the one with the logo was used before the game. However, if you take that as the case, there is no deflation. So Wells assumes the opposite.

But the text messages you say, what of those? Well the guy who calls himself the deflator started that because he was bringing balls that were at 16. I read this as evidence that the Pats, and Brady, wanted them at 13. They simply didn't want them overinflated.
McNally also sends these texts to his fiancée that week:
Jastremski: Ugh…Tom was right.
Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs… They were like 16. Felt like bricks​
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There is no way to differentiate a Brady preference for psi on the lower end of the allowable spectrum, and an orchestrated attempt to skirt the rules. The above facts just don't support Brady being guilty of anything. Maybe he did it - but it was not proven, or even shown to be probable, during the investigation.
 
scdono said:
Here's my opinion. This whole investigation is a sham. The evidence is so weak no prosecutor or attorney would pursue such a case on the "lower standard of preponderance of evidence". The haters get there day and Goodell has support of the majority owners who can't win a title. Ted Wells got paid $5,000,000.00 to give Goodell what he need. And yes, I am a trial attorney and know things above real "evidence". That is all, back to the haters...
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Hope you're a trial attorney with a good secretary. One who can use there and their properly.
 
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Shady Brady caught with his hands in the cookie jar.

Belicheat and the Pacheatots are the biggest cheats in the history of the NFL.

And even with all the cheating they couldn't beat Eli in the Super Bowls.
 
uconnric said:
This is not a criminal investigation. Preponderance of the evidence is the standard. Wells found that it was more likely than not that it was done with Brady's direction and by the team's equipment people, hence the team is liable.
It's pretty obvious what happened and that the standard of proof was correctly applied.
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Wells found it. So the plaintiff's attorney "found" a preponderance of the evidence that Brady was guilty, and in order to do so, altered facts to fit his narrative (such as the gauge the referee used pre-game). Wells may have found that, and it has all the value of horse manure, because the man was paid by the league to find exactly that. A civil trial would have a jury or independent judge. I guarantee you that no jury would find what Wells found. Not a chance.
 
when Roger gets admonished by a federal judge for the third time for living outside the law and abusing is discretionary authority, he gets fired

three strikes and you're out
 
HuskyHawk said:
Wells found it. So the plaintiff's attorney "found" a preponderance of the evidence that Brady was guilty, and in order to do so, altered facts to fit his narrative (such as the gauge the referee used pre-game). Wells may have found that, and it has all the value of horse manure, because the man was paid by the league to find exactly that. A civil trial would have a jury or independent judge. I guarantee you that no jury would find what Wells found. Not a chance.
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In a civil trial, Brady would have to turn over his records and his refusal to testify can be used as an inference of his culpability. The finding was not based so much on the gauges, but the behavior of those involved. You can argue about the gauges all you want, it's not going to change the decision, nor should it. The proceeding was more in the nature of an administrative proceeding, which typically gives the accuser the advantage, but it is what it is.

The Patriots' pr people have been working overtime on this and many are buying it. When you put yourself in a hole, stop digging.
 
It's amazing to me that the NFL talks about "integrity", yet relies on words like "more probable than not" to attack someone else's integrity.
 
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uconnric said:
In a civil trial, Brady would have to turn over his records and his refusal to testify can be used as an inference of his culpability. The finding was not based so much on the gauges, but the behavior of those involved. You can argue about the gauges all you want, it's not going to change the decision, nor should it. The proceeding was more in the nature of an administrative proceeding, which typically gives the accuser the advantage, but it is what it is.

The Patriots' pr people have been working overtime on this and many are buying it. When you put yourself in a hole, stop digging.
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Except that Brady did volunteer to turn over his texts and emails in a controlled environment where they could not be copied or disseminated. Meanwhile, the NFLPA, specifically advises all players not to turn over personal communications, as it is not part of the collective bargaining agreement and not something the league has the authority to ask for. You don't think that the husband of the most famous supermodel in the world has a reason to control access to his personal emails? That is just absurd. In a civil trial, which there will be, Mr. Goodell and Mr. Wells and the league and Colts will need to turn over their communications as well. That's when this gets good.

Oh and the Pats didn't provide access to McNally? He was interviewed four times. They rejected the fifth interview because he lives in New Hampshire and has a full time job. It was a ridiculous request by the league. Nothing more than a manufactured excuse to take a pick from the team the league wants to see fail.
 
BlueDogs said:
Brady probably knew and may have been complicit. BUT, the report does not present a shred of direct evidence that Brady knew or was involved. Its all circumstantial (really speculation). This is a hatchet job by "independent investigator" Ted Wells whose law firm represents the NFL in defending against concussion lawsuits. Several million dollars in lawyer fees later, Wells' righteous indignation doesn't dispose of the basic fact there is a blatant conflict of interest and he is not in any way shape or form independent. He make think he is, but he is not as a matter of fact. If the NFL had any sense they would fine Brady for noncooperation, but they have no basis to conclude Brady intentionally violated the rules. In fact, I would argue the NFL is open to a law suit for defamation.
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One of the things I don't understand about this whole mess is why in 'k the League would choose Wells' firm in the first place. It screams conflict of interest; thus, adding an unnecessary complication. My experience tells me that the "easy" part of "dispute resolution" related negotiation is picking disinterested third parties. In this case, it required a simple call requesting a list of firms the Patriots could live with followed by actual agreement on the firm. Result? All issues related to COI resolved. Handling it the way it did, the NFL was, in essence, writing the opposition's opening Press Conference comments. Seems fundamentally flawed to me. Can't believe the League didn't anticipate this. My guess is that it's never a good thing when the lead investigator has to spend close to an hour defending the investigation's integrity.

For a guy who spends so much time talking about "Protecting the Shield," the Commissioner sure contributes his share of tarnish. I think he's incredibly niaive, getting horrible advice from his PR people, ignoring his PR people or all of the above. He seems totally unaware of the perception he's creating.

Hell, a big piece of the righteously indignant media doesn't know who/what to be righteously indignant about. Don't worry, though. They'll make something up.
 
Despite what some are saying, this deflate gate is the best thing to happen to the NFL in a long time. They held off on reporting the results on this before the Super Bowl because that's already the biggest ratings draw on TV. Then we had the run up to the Draft--- pretty popular and thus still no report and punishment. But now we're in the doldrums before the Pre-season. So this week it all comes pouring out, and even with the NBA and NHL Playoffs and MLB going strong, the NFL has again grabbed the spotlight. They've consumed the media's attention and the TV networks, websites, bloggers, talk radio guys love it. Anyone think advertising rates for that opening game vs the Steelers won't go higher? And how about the Cowboys and the Colts? And with a reason to postpone the flag raising in game #1, it now likely happens during the Jaguars game (assuming Brady's suspension gets cut back to 2 games) which now suddenly takes on a playoff atmosphere.
And as for the Pats, it's not all bad. Most teams in their post Super Bowl victory year have a letdown. But not these Pats. They have been incentivized, and Belichick will have Garoppolo ready and that O Line coached up into ferocious protectors. As for the lost draft choices, Jimmy G. gets the chance to show-off his stuff, which only makes him a more valuable commodity for the Pats in case some other team is clamoring for a QB and is willing to give up lots more of those juicy draft choices. So that sound you hear are all of the high-fives being slapped over this, including by the lawyers who'll be making some nice bread on both sides.

And as for Bob Kraft, despite the appearance of dropping the hammer on his buddy, Goodell actually ended up doing him a favor. By suspending Brady for 4 games the Pats save $2M. Kraft was only fined $1M. So Goodell actually made his friend $1M!!!
Aint life wonderful?!
 
sammydabiz said:
Same could be said for Aaron Hernandez in his trial for 1st degree Murder, although two totally different circumstances... He too was convicted on circumstantial evidence, so it's not totally unfounded for anyone (in this case Brady) to get the axe on circumstantial evidence as well. He isn't the first, and he won't be the last either. Tom Teriffic was playing with fire, and he got burned.... it happens
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Yup true. But, it is much harder to meet a standard of proof because it requires the trier of fact to consider reasonable alternatives in relation to the standard. Evidence is any fact or circumstance which has probative value in discerning the truth of a matter. Circumstantial evidence is indirect proof and as such has different degrees of probative value in the face of various plausible alternatives. A failure to cooperate is not proof of guilt. There are plenty of valid reasons for not disclosing email and communications, which range from he's having an affair, he has financial trouble, he has a medical problem, etc...the disclosure of which vastly outweighs the risk of cooperating and the potential of subsequent unauthorized or inadvertent disclosure. Do I really think he knew? Yes, but that is not the point. They could have fined him for not cooperating, but to divine and declare he cheated is way over the top based on how they conducted this.
 
uconnric said:
If there ever was an "Evil Empire", that name now belongs to the New England Patriots.
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That nickname was given due to the Yankee's team-building method of simply buying up all the best, most expensive free agents. If you're trying to make a parallel like that, I think the Patriots are far more "Moneyball" than "Evil Empire".
 
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