OT - Boxing, Decline, Cotto, Floyd, MMA

[johnhuskies95]

you sound like you dont know the sport. learn the sport first then watch it youll see very differently. i thought just like you. all i saw was two guys either just rolling around on the ground or walking around in circles just throwing haymakers. its kind of like when someone doesnt understand football and all they see is a guy run a couple feet and get piled on by a bunch of other players but they dont understand everything that just happened and why it happened.

I've actually watched it about 5 different times. I just can't get into it. It's not for everybody.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Its tough to be wrong in so many ways in one post but you pulled it off.

MMA athletes are much better athletes than boxers. Boxers are a one trick pony and they're phenomenal at it performing it. But in his entire training camp and prep for the fight, Mayweather spent less than one second training on take down defense, avoiding kicks, wrestling, working off of his back or how to maintain his pulse and composure with a forearm across his chest.

Boxers are historically some of the worst athletes outside of their realm (Roy Jones, Jr being the obvious exception). Go back an watch some of the old Battle of the Superstars where boxers needed swimmies to avoid drowning in pools and couldn't make contact in any stick/ball sport.

Boxing is like checkers and t-ball. They have to prepare to fight in a contest where they can only be hit with the fist above the waist. Not too complicated. But they don't have the physical structure, strength or coordination to fight an elite MMA fighter.

Bottom line, a champion boxer would beat an MMA fight in boxing rules, an MMA figher beats a boxer in the octogon using MMA rules and an MMA fighter kills a boxer in an alley.

I've come to enjoy the big UFC cards but there's nothing more hilarious than listening to an MMA devotee explaining how amazingly athletic and technically skilled the fighters are and then you turn on a card and see some obese mulleted redneck like Roy Nelson. I mean, some of these guys like St. Pierre are absolutely world class athletes. Others, like the Diaz brothers, have probably managed to use MMA to avoid a career robbing 711s.

 

[Frank Ivy]

Others, like the Diaz brothers, have probably managed to use MMA to avoid a career robbing 711s.

Wow. What an incredibly rude, unfounded, libelous, and potentially racist comment. What do you think you know about these young men other than what you see on PPV events and the occasional interview.
You sir, are an a@@whole.

 

[AJC88]

Wow. What an incredibly rude, unfounded, libelous, and potentially racist comment. What do you think you know about these young men other than what you see on PPV events and the occasional interview.
You sir, are an a@@whole.

he may be an a, but he is an a who can spell.

 

[Frank Ivy]

he may be an a, but he is an a who can spell.

I used the word "libelous" in my post and you believe that I wrote "whole" because I don't know how to spell the epithet?

 

[Chin Diesel]

I've come to enjoy the big UFC cards but there's nothing more hilarious than listening to an MMA devotee explaining how amazingly athletic and technically skilled the fighters are and then you turn on a card and see some obese mulleted redneck like Roy Nelson. I mean, some of these guys like St. Pierre are absolutely world class athletes. Others, like the Diaz brothers, have probably managed to use MMA to avoid a career robbing 711s.

Boxing's history is littered with felons and criminals. I don't know of another sport that has more criminals than boxing.

 

[DrewDog85]

Boxing's history is littered with felons and criminals. I don't know of another sport that has more criminals than boxing.

Very Very True

 

[21Huskies]

I will say this. Kimbo Slice, who's discipline was (brawler), nowhere near the skill of high end boxers, did mash a few MMA guys before he washed out of the UFC. There's lots to learn and defend. Yet sometimes, one or two good punches can end Any fight. The Great MMA guys will have 6-7 different coaches from standup to ground, clinches, submissions etc. working with them. I believe Freddie Roach, one of the Greatest teachers, has helped a half dozen MMA guys prepare.

wow, what a ridiculous post.

dude, Kimbo was thrown into the ring with tomato cans. complete bums. when he finally fought any even remotely average he was about as embarrassing as he could possibly be.

the lack of knowledge in this thread is borderline stunning other than 990411's post

 

[johnhuskies95]

wow, what a ridiculous post.

dude, Kimbo was thrown into the ring with tomato cans. complete bums. when he finally fought any even remotely average he was about as embarrassing as he could possibly be.

the lack of knowledge in this thread is borderline stunning other than 990411's post

Oh yes, here comes 21huskies as always to get up on his high horse and chastise everyone else for their opinions.

Please tell us why you're so much smarter than everybody else on this board.

 

[AJC88]

I think he's criticizing the lack of knowledge on the two sports more than the opinions, because the lack of knowledge is quite astounding in this thread.

 

[21Huskies]

Please tell us why you're so much smarter than everybody else on this board.

i'm not smarter than everyone. but i am smart enough to know that if i'm not educated on a subject i shouldn't post about it.

 

[johnhuskies95]

i'm not smarter than everyone. but i am smart enough to know that if i'm not educated on a subject i shouldn't post about it.

Dude, people are expressing their opinions. They're allowed to have them. All too often you seem to attack people because they don't agree with what you're saying. For example, just because people don't think that Bo Ryan is an awesome coach doesn't mean that they are right or wrong. It's an opinion, and that's what people are arguing about.

 

[johnhuskies95]

I think he's criticizing the lack of knowledge on the two sports more than the opinions, because the lack of knowledge is quite astounding in this thread.

For example?

You guys keep mentioning that but this is a 5 page thread and most of the posts here are just people giving their opinions or two cents about an argument. People can disagree with each other.

 

[21Huskies]

without question people can disagree. we disagree on almost everything.

but when people start trying to tell others and educate others on a topic and they start throwing out names like Kimbo Slice as their evidence, someone needs to step in and just put an end to that.

Kimbo Slice is to MMA what Lil Romeo is to basketball. they played, but they really didn't play, if you get my point.

 

[AJC88]

For example?

You guys keep mentioning that but this is a 5 page thread and most of the posts here are just people giving their opinions or two cents about an argument. People can disagree with each other.

what 21Huskies said.

 

[johnhuskies95]

what 21Huskies said.

Alright, so that Kimbo Slice reference was a bad point. But what else? Because you said that the lack of knowledge in this thread was "astounding".

I don't think that one example means that all of the posts in the thread lack knowledge about the argument.

 

[Deepster]

I just can't get in to MMA. I much prefer boxing where it takes more patience and mental strength to win a fight. MMA fights just don't last very long.

Try watching it with someone who really knows MMA. I missed a ton until I did. It really is a lot more than you probably think. Even the "meaningless" kicks in the thigh can give enough advantage over a round where the guy can't move laterally to escape. He's being set up in advance and you probably missed it.

 

[Rondogg]

PayPerView killed boxing. I used to watch boxing all the time and I don't want to spend the $ to watch the big matches. I follow boxing and watch it on cable but anytime one of them gets good they either get on the undercard of a "big" fight or they ARE the "big" fight. Then I can only see them if I want to pay for Showtime or HBO. Then I never get to see them live again unless I want to pay $60. Then I forget who they are. Too bad, I used to love boxing. The made a couple of people incredibly wealthy but they destroyed the Sport.

I remember when the SuperBowl was discussed as a Pay Per View...

 

[21Huskies]

disclosure: i love boxing and i love MMA. i think its unfair people compare them so much, they are different sports.

some of the comments, since you asked for them
-- 15 minutes of fame is up (opinion clearly and fishy is entitled to it) but the sport is one of, if not the, fastest growing sport in the world.
-- guys referencing MMA to 'bar fights' (MMA fighters are trained in generally brazilian jiujitsu, striking/boxing, wrestling, muay thai, kickboxing, etc. this isn't Bubba fighting Jimbo who had too many bud heavies at the bar.
-- mma fighters aren't nearly the athletes that boxers are (not even worth commenting about)
-- minimum rules in MMA (simply not true)
-- fan base is trash and wanna be tough guys (ridiculous)

that was the first 2 pages, i'm too tired to keep looking.

i'm not saying there weren't some good, educated posts. but some people here seemed to think MMA is grabbing 2 guys off the street and putting them in a cage and seeing who comes out alive.

 

[AJC88]

Alright, so that Kimbo Slice reference was a bad point. But what else? Because you said that the lack of knowledge in this thread was "astounding".

I don't think that one example means that all of the posts in the thread lack knowledge about the argument.

Boxers are bad athletes, boxers are generally not athletic outside of the ring, the whole boxing vs mma in a street fight debate, mma fighters being criminals. That's just off the top of my head, I can go back and find some more if you'd like.

 

[GemParty]

wow, what a ridiculous post.

dude, Kimbo was thrown into the ring with tomato cans. complete bums. when he finally fought any even remotely average he was about as embarrassing as he could possibly be.

the lack of knowledge in this thread is borderline stunning other than 990411's post

My point on Kimbo, was a guy with only a punchers chance can win a fight. Most of this thread has successfully included good back & forth on a fun OT subject. If a thread is tiresome or annoys you, why particapate? Just can't help yourself. I've posted 6 times in this thread and I'm pro MMA. My comment related to, can someone with only a good punch beat an MMA guy. The answer in Kimbo's case was, Yes. Ask Houston Alexander (not a tomatoe can), who had previously knocked out vets Sakara & Jardine. Could Kimbo sustain the success. No. Coincidentally, now he's trying his hand as a boxer. That's what this whole thread is about.

 

[johnhuskies95]

disclosure: i love boxing and i love MMA. i think its unfair people compare them so much, they are different sports.

some of the comments, since you asked for them
-- 15 minutes of fame is up (opinion clearly and fishy is entitled to it) but the sport is one of, if not the, fastest growing sport in the world.
-- guys referencing MMA to 'bar fights' (MMA fighters are trained in generally brazilian jiujitsu, striking/boxing, wrestling, muay thai, kickboxing, etc. this isn't Bubba fighting Jimbo who had too many bud heavies at the bar.
-- mma fighters aren't nearly the athletes that boxers are (not even worth commenting about)
-- minimum rules in MMA (simply not true)
-- fan base is trash and wanna be tough guys (ridiculous)

that was the first 2 pages, i'm too tired to keep looking.

i'm not saying there weren't some good, educated posts. but some people here seemed to think MMA is grabbing 2 guys off the street and putting them in a cage and seeing who comes out alive.

Going point by point here.

Lacrosse has been the fastest growing US sport for a decade now. Does anybody really think it has any sort of long term staying power? When the sport has only been around for a few years, chances are it's going to grow.

The bar fight comment was talking about how MMA allows more than boxing which just allows punches thrown above the waist.

I agree that MMA fighters are just as athletic as boxers and maybe even more athletic in some cases.

Again, see what I said above. MMA has less rules than boxing in terms of what is allowed.

Have you ever gone to a bar and watched a UFC fight? The majority of the people there wear affliction clothing.

 

[21Huskies]

they put kimbo in the ring with guys who had absolutely no ground game. guys they knew would just stand up and throw with him. Kimbo and Houston Alexander are/were bad UFC fighters. anyone who follows MMA knows that Kimbo was never a real fighter. he was a chance to gain ratings thru mainstream fans that had heard of kimbo thru his youtube fame and had no idea about actual MMA fighting. they lined up bums against him... and yes, Houston Alexander was/is a one trick pony (striking) with no ground game. the reason they never put him in there with a guy with ground game was because they knew he'd never last more than a few minutes and it'd ruin his aura to the mainstream fans who didn't know what they were watching.

and this thread doesn't annoy me, at all. i think its wonderful since i'm a fan of both sports. i just think there are a lot of misinformed posts.

 

[21Huskies]

Going point by point here.

Lacrosse has been the fastest growing US sport for a decade now. Does anybody really think it has any sort of long term staying power? When the sport has only been around for a few years, chances are it's going to grow.

The bar fight comment was talking about how MMA allows more than boxing which just allows punches thrown above the waist.

I agree that MMA fighters are just as athletic as boxers and maybe even more athletic in some cases.

Again, see what I said above. MMA has less rules than boxing in terms of what is allowed.

Have you ever gone to a bar and watched a UFC fight? The majority of the people there wear affliction clothing.

now you're just trolling me... lacrosse? really?
- tell me the last time Lacrosse sold 500k-1 mil ppv's like UFC does consistently.
- UFC has been around since the early 90's... plenty of the arguments being used in this thread would have been applicable to early 90's UFC when it was basically chicken fighting, now the sport is FAR different.
- MMA as a whole has been around far longer.
- MMA has plenty of rules and is far more detailed and intricate than boxing is (and again, i'm a bigger boxing fan than MMA)
- and yes, there are certainly dumb/toughguy MMA fans. but its quite the generalization. the same tough guy fans show up to football games, hockey matches and boxing matches.

 

[johnhuskies95]

now you're just trolling me... lacrosse? really?
- tell me the last time Lacrosse sold 500k-1 mil ppv's like UFC does consistently.
- UFC has been around since the early 90's... plenty of the arguments being used in this thread would have been applicable to early 90's UFC when it was basically chicken fighting, now the sport is FAR different.
- MMA as a whole has been around far longer.
- MMA has plenty of rules and is far more detailed and intricate than boxing is (and again, i'm a bigger boxing fan than MMA)
- and yes, there are certainly dumb/toughguy MMA fans. but its quite the generalization. the same tough guy fans show up to football games, hockey matches and boxing matches.

I was arguing with the points you made in the post I quoted above. You backed up your reasoning for saying that MMA is the fastest growing sport in the world. I said that Lacrosse has been the fastest growing sport in the US for the last decade, hence why being the fastest growing sport anywhere doesn't really matter when it comes to sustained success.

Also, like it or not, a sport's ceiling in terms of popularity will always be based off of ESPN. If ESPN doesn't show it, the sport is severely limited in terms of its potential following.

Again, I was arguing with the points you made in your other post. Now your moving the goalposts. I was talking about why those other points in the thread were brought up. MMA allows far more than boxing does. I don't think that's really debatable.