OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[meyers7]

Well we better hope the future primadonnas choose wide receiver and point guard because that strategy long term would be pretty dumb.

So you want guys you can't trust. Ok. I guess we just disagree here.

 

[UConnDan97]

Yes you did misrepresent. You said 66 players to chose from. You even broke it down to 4 per team. There are way more than that. And 165 from the "best league" in the world (I know that's debatable), is pretty good. 32% is way more than Belgium has in the EPL. Way more than the USA has playing in all top leagues combined.

Getting a World Cup winning caliber team probably means having your players playing in more than just your domestic league. Even if your domestic league is one of the best.

Dividing a supplied number of players in an article by a supplied number of teams in an article is clearly not a misrepresentation, so stop being a . If you feel like that is a good situation, then good for you. If you don't, that's fine also.

What I can tell you is that England currently does not have enough players playing at the highest level to support the expectation that they can win it all. Most of the English roster play in England, so your point of it being more than a domestic league doesn't hold. It's not like Argentina and Brasil, who have a fair amount of roster players that play abroad...

 

[meyers7]

Dividing a supplied number of players in an article by a supplied number of teams in an article is clearly not a misrepresentation, so stop being a .

Yea it is. You misrepresented. You said 66 players to chose from. The article said 66 regularly playing players to chose from. HUGE difference. Quit being an a .

I'm not saying the article or the idea the article was trying to portray is incorrect, I'm saying YOU misrepresented what the article said. Which you did. You made it sound like there are only 66 players in the EPL who were English that they could choose from. There are way more than that.

Another completely different argument can be made of what they meant by "regularly playing" and if that is or isn't pertinent. I'm not arguing that.

You need to better understand what you are reading and commenting on from articles you link.

 

[whaler11]

I wouldn't have minded him bringing Donovan. But I understand why he didn't, and am fine with that choice.


This I disagree with. I think he/we did maximize our performance this year. I certainly didn't expect to get out of the group. And sure didn't think we'd be within a "Wondo being able to put away a volley" from getting to the Quarters.

Personally I think this is the greatest showing USA has ever had at the WC. Better than 2002 due to the opposition. Ghana, Portugal, Germany, Belgium vs Portugal, S. Korea, Poland, Mexico? Not even close.

I was talking more the chance they gave themselves to advance over the actual results. I don't like not going all in on the current tournament, that doesn't mean that the outcome would have changed if they had had done things differently.

I do think people are still regarding Portugal as PORTUGAL - they certainly didn't play like the fourth best team in the world.

 

[UConnDan97]

Yea it is. You misrepresented. You said 66 players to chose from. The article said 66 regularly playing players to chose from. HUGE difference. Quit being an a .

I'm not saying the article or the idea the article was trying to portray is incorrect, I'm saying YOU misrepresented what the article said. Which you did. You made it sound like there are only 66 players in the EPL who were English that they could choose from. There are way more than that.

Another completely different argument can be made of what they meant by "regularly playing" and if that is or isn't pertinent. I'm not arguing that.

You need to better understand what you are reading and commenting on from articles you link.

If you have reading comprehension problems, that's on you, not me. I included the article for all to see. I always bring my references. You need to better understand what you are arguing about....

 

[whaler11]

So you want guys you can't trust. Ok. I guess we just disagree here.

No I want the best players on the field, not the best players who happen to fit the coach's taste or personality. If you eliminate a percentage of players due to them being 'primadonnas' you limit your upside.

 

[Waquoit]

Subba hit on what my real frustration was with Klinsmann in this World Cup. He was much more concerned with 2018 than I would have liked him to be. It was like the draw gave him a free pass to look ahead instead of trying to maximize the 2014 performance.
I get that some people aren't bothered by that, but it drives me nuts. Hopefully in 2018, I feel stupid for feeling that way today - but 4 years is a long time.

The fact is he accomplished both. The USA had a Final 8 birth on the foot of their best poacher. They were what, a 30% shot to advance to the knockout stage? They damn near made it to the quarters and you're saying that's not maximizing performance? That's just stubbornness.

 

[SubbaBub]

This game is cruel. We could have a more talented team in 2018 and get bounced in group play. Many big teams were bounced this year. We have the Gold Cup and the Confed Cup (if we qualify) coming up as well as the Olympics. There will be plenty of milestones to judge progress going forward.

Hello 2010. Even 2006. (GHANAAAAAAA!)

 

[Kgun7]

Dividing a supplied number of players in an article by a supplied number of teams in an article is clearly not a misrepresentation, so stop being a . If you feel like that is a good situation, then good for you. If you don't, that's fine also.

What I can tell you is that England currently does not have enough players playing at the highest level to support the expectation that they can win it all. Most of the English roster play in England, so your point of it being more than a domestic league doesn't hold. It's not like Argentina and Brasil, who have a fair amount of roster players that play abroad...

Stupid question: If the EPL moves to limit foreign players to encourage more English participation so English footballers can play in an elite league ... would the EPL remain an elite league?

 

[BlueMAB]

I don't have the time to get caught up on the last 2-3 pages, so apologies if this has been said/discussed. My final word on LD is that the team would have been better with him on the roster. Most of the JK apologists even admit that. LD at 80-90% for 10-20 minutes is better than Aron Johansson at 100% for 45-90.

I also firmly believe that JK didn't expect to make it out of the group stage. I think he saw the group of death, figured the team was a long shot to advance, and decided to bring more youth to prepare for 2018. IMO he knew that if he didn't get out of the group of death, there wouldn't be much criticism, and if he did, then great, mission accomplished.

 

[SubbaBub]

I don't think Donovan is our most productive offensive player and I doubt Klinsmann thought that either.

Anyone you could name wouldn't be definitively better. The best argument would be Dempsey and he was looking pretty rough outside that 1st minute goal.

I never thought of him as a full 90 every match player, but how anyone can look at the roster, the results (5 goals in 4 games, almost zero offensive possession), and obvious moments he would have been a huge upgrade and still talk about sabbaticals and didn't get along. He was the guy for a decade, it didn't just fall off the cliff. He's still one of the better players in MLS.

 

[UConnDan97]

Stupid question: If the EPL moves to limit foreign players to encourage more English participation so English footballers can play in an elite league ... would the EPL remain an elite league?

Sure it would. Most of the elite countries have already been through this, and if I'm not mistaken, England had done it in the past. The limit doesn't have to be very tight. In other words, 5 foreign players per team or something to that effect. That leaves a lot of roster spots for English growth, but at the same time, attracts the Ozil's of the world...

 

[SubbaBub]

The fact is he accomplished both. The USA had a Final 8 birth on the foot of their best poacher. They were what, a 30% shot to advance to the knockout stage? They damn near made it to the quarters and you're saying that's not maximizing performance? That's just stubbornness.

Adding Brooks, Johannsson and Green was smart, and probably prearranged as a condition of their commitment. Yedlin was the big surprise and he delivered.

Mix was Bradley's backup in case of injury.

 

[SAMCRO]

Stupid question: If the EPL moves to limit foreign players to encourage more English participation so English footballers can play in an elite league ... would the EPL remain an elite league?

IMO, the EPL would fall off a bit, and surrender the elite status to La Liga and Series A solely, but be on par or just behind Budesliga (German league). A league with a couple great teams, but get weaker in the middle/bottom. I would be surprised if that happened though, with all the money on the table in having 4 teams qualify for CL, and another 2-3 in Europa, and the number of foreign owners. Just my opinion though.

 

[UConnDan97]

IMO, the EPL would fall off a bit, and surrender the elite status to La Liga and Series A solely, but be on par or just behind Budesliga (German league). A league with a couple great teams, but get weaker in the middle/bottom. I would be surprised if that happened though, with all the money on the table in having 4 teams qualify for CL, and another 2-3 in Europa, and the number of foreign owners. Just my opinion though.

No doubt, there would be ramifications for quality of the bottom of the league. The top 5 or 6 teams would still find that they were of the highest quality, like they've always been (primarily because they would steal the best English talent away from other Premiership / Championship teams). They would be giving up league depth for national team development, but as you alluded to, I'm not sure who calls the shots on that decision. If it's the owners? Then, "fat chance"...

 

[BlueMAB]

Sure it would. Most of the elite countries have already been through this, and if I'm not mistaken, England had done it in the past. The limit doesn't have to be very tight. In other words, 5 foreign players per team or something to that effect. That leaves a lot of roster spots for English growth, but at the same time, attracts the Ozil's of the world...

I could be wrong, but I think this strategy is counter-productive. Let the players play where they want, and they're most wanted. Imagine if the NBA had this. Outside of Miami, does anyone really not enjoy watching the Spurs play?

 

[Waquoit]

The EPL is the best soccer league going. They're not going to bollocks it up in the dubious hope that it improves the national team.

 

[ZooCougar]

Football is a four month season. Five if you make the Super Bowl. And there's no national team, so you get half a year off. Donovan basically was playing year round for 12 years with a couple small breaks here and there. Guy named Jordan once took a sabbatical to play another sport.

Truthfully, though, I doubt JK would have played him in Brazil anyway even if he was there, so if that's the case, better to not have him around. No questions now about "why did you sub Wondo instead of Donovan" Those came two months ago and the team moved on.

Yes but Jordan had pretty much done it all by the time he took his break.

 

[UConnDan97]

I could be wrong, but I think this strategy is counter-productive. Let the players play where they want, and they're most wanted. Imagine if the NBA had this. Outside of Miami, does anyone really not enjoy watching the Spurs play?

It could be. I suppose the trick is in the implementation. In the Bundesliga, they have a maximum of 5 "non-EU" players. Obviously, that leaves a lot of room for Spanish players, etc. And Bayern Munich certainly has a lot of non-Germans on their roster. But Borussia Dortmund, who have been extremely good as of late, have a large population of German players. And they've been extremely good in Champions League over the last couple of years...

 

[Husky25]

Adding Brooks, Johannsson and Green was smart, and probably prearranged as a condition of their commitment. Yedlin was the big surprise and he delivered.

Mix was Bradley's backup in case of injury.

Wasn't Green added in part to keep him from potentially playing for Germany in 2018?

 

[meyers7]

I was talking more the chance they gave themselves to advance over the actual results. I don't like not going all in on the current tournament, that doesn't mean that the outcome would have changed if they had had done things differently.

I don't know that they didn't go all in on this tournament. And whatever chance they gave themselves, they did advance. So....??

I do think people are still regarding Portugal as PORTUGAL - they certainly didn't play like the fourth best team in the world.

True, they were not exactly who we thought they were.

 

[meyers7]

If you have reading comprehension problems, that's on you, not me. I included the article for all to see. I always bring my references. You need to better understand what you are arguing about....

 

[meyers7]

This game is cruel. We could have a more talented team in 2018 and get bounced in group play. Many big teams were bounced this year. We have the Gold Cup and the Confed Cup (if we qualify) coming up as well as the Olympics. There will be plenty of milestones to judge progress going forward.

Don't forget the CopaAmerica 2016 here in the states.

 

[meyers7]

No I want the best players on the field, not the best players who happen to fit the coach's taste or personality. If you eliminate a percentage of players due to them being 'primadonnas' you limit your upside.

Sure, but I don't consider (and most people don't consider) players you can't trust as your best players.

 

[meyers7]

Anyone you could name wouldn't be definitively better. The best argument would be Dempsey and he was looking pretty rough outside that 1st minute goal.

I never thought of him as a full 90 every match player, but how anyone can look at the roster, the results (5 goals in 4 games, almost zero offensive possession), and obvious moments he would have been a huge upgrade and still talk about sabbaticals and didn't get along. He was the guy for a decade, it didn't just fall off the cliff. He's still one of the better players in MLS.

Yet you think he's our most productive offensive player??????

"Was" I'll agree, "is" eh not so sure.

 

[meyers7]

Stupid question: If the EPL moves to limit foreign players to encourage more English participation so English footballers can play in an elite league ... would the EPL remain an elite league?

Well they already have "home grown" policy, but that can include foreigners who came through a English clubs youth/reserve squad. So they are kind of half-way there now.

Some would argue it's not the most elite now. I think it's the most entertaining and probably the most competitive top to bottom though.