OT: Baylor Sex Allegations Get More Lurid

[CL82]

I am just pointing out that unfounded accusations are not appreciated by anyone, either by UCONN or Baylor fans, and used those two unsubstantiated accusations against Geno as examples. How about we stick to the facts instead of the things we conjure up in our imaginations.

ETT you are a good poster. I get that Baylor gets it's share of unfair criticism. You may remember that I've defend it here on more than one occasion. Still you have to realize that coming here and taking pot shots at our head coach or comparing anything that's happened at UConn to the allegations that Baylor is facing isn't going to well received.

You are right, of course, that we should wait until things are decided but right now things look pretty bad for Baylor. There isn't much that you can say that's going to change that impression.

 

[easttexastrash]

ETT your a good poster. I get that Baylor gets it's share of unfair criticism. You may remember that I've defend it here on more than one occasion. Still you have to realize that coming here and taking pot shots at our head coach or comparing anything that's happened at UConn to the allegations that Baylor is facing isn't going to well received.

You are right, of course, that we should wait until things are decided but right now things look pretty bad for Baylor. There isn't much that you can say that's going to change that impression.

CL82, you apparently missed the conversation. I am not comparing what is happening with the football team at Baylor to anything that has happened at UCONN. I was speaking to mauconnfan's assertion that the players on the men's basketball team MUST have chosen Baylor because they were promised sex as a reward for choosing Baylor. Not only is that making disparaging comments about Drew, it is also making incredibly disparaging comments about the character of the men's basketball team.

In no way am I defending or trying to change the impression of the football program. This is an embarrassment to all Baylor fans and is indefensible.

 

[jonson]

CL82, you apparently missed the conversation. I am not comparing what is happening with the football team at Baylor to anything that has happened at UCONN. I was speaking to mauconnfan's assertion that the players on the men's basketball team MUST have chosen Baylor because they were promised sex as a reward for choosing Baylor. Not only is that making disparaging comments about Drew, it is also making incredibly disparaging comments about the character of the men's basketball team.

In no way am I defending or trying to change the impression of the football program. This is an embarrassment to all Baylor fans and is indefensible.

I understand your point (and frustration); however, defending Scott Drew is kind of a slippery slope. There have been a lot of--admittedly unproved to this point--accusations circling Drew for a considerable amount of time now, even to the extent that in a poll that asked mbb coaches to rank the worst "cheaters" in the game he came in second only to Calipari.

This doesn't mean he's guilty, of course, only widely unpopular among his peers. But it's not a name that's synonymous with "good character."

 

[easttexastrash]

I understand your point (and frustration); however, defending Scott Drew is kind of a slippery slope. There have been a lot of--admittedly unproved to this point--accusations circling Drew for a considerable amount of time now, even to the extent that in a poll that asked mbb coaches to rank the worst "cheaters" in the game he came in second only to Calipari.

This doesn't mean he's guilty, of course, only widely unpopular among his peers. But it's not a name that's synonymous with "good character."

When we have some proof of wrongdoing then I will consider it objectively. But, what I take issue with is the implication that the players on the men's basketball team chose Baylor because they were promised favors of sex. These young men have done nothing that would warrant having the actions of the football team transferred to judgments about their character.

 

[CL82]

CL82, you apparently missed the conversation. I am not comparing what is happening with the football team at Baylor to anything that has happened at UCONN. I was speaking to mauconnfan's assertion that the players on the men's basketball team MUST have chosen Baylor because they were promised sex as a reward for choosing Baylor. Not only is that making disparaging comments about Drew, it is also making incredibly disparaging comments about the character of the men's basketball team.

In no way am I defending or trying to change the impression of the football program. This is an embarrassment to all Baylor fans and is indefensible.

I'm glad that my reading of your posts differed than your intention when you wrote them. Still, it might be a good call to throttle back the comparisons.

 

[gamer]

Whether it would be fair or not, it seems like the scandals Baylor has had over the last few year might affect WBB recruiting, but it seems like these players and their families have never heard of any of this stuff, or it just doesn't enter in for whatever reason. The Christian image of Baylor is very strong and deep in Texas, and that may have more weight, despite the alleged outrages and hypocrisy.

 

[DaddyChoc]

ETT you are a good poster. I get that Baylor gets it's share of unfair criticism. You may remember that I've defend it here on more than one occasion. Still you have to realize that coming here and taking pot shots at our head coach or comparing anything that's happened at UConn to the allegations that Baylor is facing isn't going to well received.

You are right, of course, that we should wait until things are decided but right now things look pretty bad for Baylor. There isn't much that you can say that's going to change that impression.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I'm glad we don't have that football culture that many of the other schools have. Actually I'm glad that football is not so pervasive here that it rules every day life like it does in some parts of the country. I find that a bit weird when I travel to states down south. For whatever reason football seems to be a magnet for crime.

Isn't it disgusting that extraordinarily good athletes in many cases are empowered in such a way that they feel they can conduct themselves in any fashion that they want and don't have any consequences for their actions. Their sense of entitlement is through the roof. It's really special when you have superbly talented players that are on the other side of the spectrum that are respectful and thoughtful and unassuming and mannerly like Ray Allen was and is along with many others. Pretty sad that all too many aren't!

 

[skilz]

It absolutely amazes me that grown adults will stoop to such a low level. None of us know the truth regarding the stories coming out of Baylor, nor will we ever know, but openly discussing a lawsuit that has nothing to do with WBB just isn't morally right. The women's program has nothing to do with the scandals so why should we demoralize the school on this board, much less throw any other athletic program into this conversation (MBB)? All schools have issues, however this one is very big, but the current students shouldn't have to get crucified from others on a regular basis because this is the school they chose. Be smart and realize that there are 2 sides to a story. We don't need to start bashing other schools because they currently have good programs in basketball. I think this whole situation is terrible, but let's keep this forum to WBB. We have a great UConn team breaking records and playing great basketball this year and some of you want to focus on a football program almost 2 years ago that went bad and has no affect on you?...... Geez!

 

[bags27]

It absolutely amazes me that grown adults will stoop to such a low level. None of us know the truth regarding the stories coming out of Baylor, nor will we ever know, but openly discussing a lawsuit that has nothing to do with WBB just isn't morally right. The women's program has nothing to do with the scandals so why should we demoralize the school on this board, much less throw any other athletic program into this conversation (MBB)? All schools have issues, however this one is very big, but the current students shouldn't have to get crucified from others on a regular basis because this is the school they chose. Be smart and realize that there are 2 sides to a story. We don't need to start bashing other schools because they currently have good programs in basketball. I think this whole situation is terrible, but let's keep this forum to WBB. We have a great UConn team breaking records and playing great basketball this year and some of you want to focus on a football program almost 2 years ago that went bad and has no affect on you?. Geez!

Guess I don't agree. We discuss university business all the time on this board--such as wondering whether a potential recruit would be swayed by (perceived) better academics, location of the institution, etc, and these subjective decisions have absolutely nothing to do with their women's basketball programs. If an institution has recently been connected with suborning sexual violence--whether or not the charges are true, it is a perception like all other subjective perceptions--it seems to me to be very relevant to discussions of whether female athletes would consider attending that institution. In fact, I think Rocky erred when entitling his thread "OT". To my mind, it is hardly "OT."

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

It absolutely amazes me that grown adults will stoop to such a low level. None of us know the truth regarding the stories coming out of Baylor, nor will we ever know, but openly discussing a lawsuit that has nothing to do with WBB just isn't morally right. The women's program has nothing to do with the scandals so why should we demoralize the school on this board, much less throw any other athletic program into this conversation (MBB)? All schools have issues, however this one is very big, but the current students shouldn't have to get crucified from others on a regular basis because this is the school they chose. Be smart and realize that there are 2 sides to a story. We don't need to start bashing other schools because they currently have good programs in basketball. I think this whole situation is terrible, but let's keep this forum to WBB. We have a great UConn team breaking records and playing great basketball this year and some of you want to focus on a football program almost 2 years ago that went bad and has no affect on you?. Geez!

Not sure how it would be "morally right" to avoid Boneyard discussion of a University that has a WBB program.

 

[easttexastrash]

It absolutely amazes me that grown adults will stoop to such a low level. None of us know the truth regarding the stories coming out of Baylor, nor will we ever know, but openly discussing a lawsuit that has nothing to do with WBB just isn't morally right. The women's program has nothing to do with the scandals so why should we demoralize the school on this board, much less throw any other athletic program into this conversation (MBB)? All schools have issues, however this one is very big, but the current students shouldn't have to get crucified from others on a regular basis because this is the school they chose. Be smart and realize that there are 2 sides to a story. We don't need to start bashing other schools because they currently have good programs in basketball. I think this whole situation is terrible, but let's keep this forum to WBB. We have a great UConn team breaking records and playing great basketball this year and some of you want to focus on a football program almost 2 years ago that went bad and has no affect on you?. Geez!

Thanks, Skilz. I appreciate the post but realize that there is a faction of society that cannot think this clearly.

Parents are comfortable sending their girls to play basketball for Mulkey because they know she runs a tight ship. They also know that the issues with the football team, at least it would appear, have been addressed and that the appropriate people have been terminated.

 

[DefenseBB]

This is also the sanctimonious university whose coach told Britney Griner not to tell anyone she was gay.

Hypocrisy all around. It's all for the greater glory of the Baylor sports program.

Normally I agree with most of your comments and leave minor quibbles alone. However on this one, I must respectfully disagree with you. Here's why-#1 the school is a Baptist University so it's views on sexuality is stated. It does not have to be politically correct. #2 Most schools do not promote sexual orientation comments from anyone as it hurts recruiting of 16, 17 and 18 year players and their families. Unfortunately, too many schools will still put muzzles on coaches orientations. Even one who this Board is currently monitoring is not openly out about herself. That is fine to remain private and should. You come across a bit too PC IMO.

 

[easttexastrash]

Normally I agree with most of your comments and leave minor quibbles alone. However on this one, I must respectfully disagree with you. Here's why-#1 the school is a Baptist University so it's views on sexuality is stated. It does not have to be politically correct. #2 Most schools do not promote sexual orientation comments from anyone as it hurts recruiting of 16, 17 and 18 year players and their families. Unfortunately, too many schools will still put muzzles on coaches orientations. Even one who this Board is currently monitoring is not openly out about herself. That is fine to remain private and should. You come across a bit too PC IMO.

Agreed. I have never heard of one UCONN player discussing their "sexuality" publicly. It seems that UCONN has some pretty strong ideas on how the players should conduct themselves. Didn't Dolson have to wait to graduate before she could have purple hair?

 

[CL82]

Agreed. I have never heard of one UCONN player discussing their "sexuality" publicly. It seems that UCONN has some pretty strong ideas on how the players should conduct themselves. Didn't Dolson have to wait to graduate before she could have purple hair?

Again, probably best not equate Baylor with UConn. None of alumni have written a book to talk about how they felt repressed and unwelcome at our university.

I strongly doubt the "see we're just like you" approach is going to play very well even on a board that is very welcoming toward visitors who support another program.

 

[bags27]

Agreed. I have never heard of one UCONN player discussing their "sexuality" publicly. It seems that UCONN has some pretty strong ideas on how the players should conduct themselves. Didn't Dolson have to wait to graduate before she could have purple hair?

How do we "know" anything about "what seems"? Most 18-22 yr old students don't discuss their sexuality publicly, so why should we suppose that a very small subset of those students would feel otherwise but be prevented from expressing it? What we do know is that Geno is strongly supportive of his former players outspoken declaration of sexual choice. That is all we know.

When any institution (academic, public, religious, etc) commits an egregious crime, it behooves all connected with that institution to condemn the crime. Period. End of statement. It doesn't make it less egregious by suggesting that other institutions might have done something; on the contrary, that sort of moral relativism makes one complicit in one's institution's own crimes. You continue to box yourself into a rhetorical corner with defending the indefensible through your imputations of UConn. For the life of me, I just can't see why you don't leave it alone, like CL82 says.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

How do we "know" anything about "what seems"? Most 18-22 yr old students don't discuss their sexuality publicly, so why should we suppose that a very small subset of those students would feel otherwise but be prevented from expressing it? What we do know is that Geno is strongly supportive of his former players outspoken declaration of sexual choice. That is all we know.

When any institution (academic, public, religious, etc) commits an egregious crime, it behooves all connected with that institution to condemn the crime. Period. End of statement. It doesn't make it less egregious by suggesting that other institutions might have done something; on the contrary, that sort of moral relativism makes one complicit in one's institution's own crimes. You continue to box yourself into a rhetorical corner with defending the indefensible through your imputations of UConn. For the life of me, I just can't see why you don't leave it alone, like CL82 says.

I just want to point out that it is all perspective - I don't see ETT as saying anything negative at all. Or particularly "equating" UConn and Baylor. But, like I am, he is an outsider, and insiders perceive outsiders remarks differently.

For the record, I thought what he said was "I agree that it is okay for sexuality to remain private, and the school to ask you to keep it so. UConn keeps tight controls on their players, so it isn't wrong of Baylor to do so, either". Maybe I misread him, but that's what I read. I happen to agree - the sexual orientation of players is their business, not the fans.

 

[easttexastrash]

Again, probably best not equate Baylor with UConn. None of alumni have written a book to talk about how they felt repressed and unwelcome at our university.

I strongly doubt the "see we're just like you" approach is going to play very well even on a board that is very welcoming toward visitors who support another program.

You are just loaded with a wealth of good advice this morning.

 

[bags27]

I just want to point out that it is all perspective - I don't see ETT as saying anything negative at all. Or particularly "equating" UConn and Baylor. But, like I am, he is an outsider, and insiders perceive outsiders remarks differently.

For the record, I thought what he said was "I agree that it is okay for sexuality to remain private, and the school to ask you to keep it so. UConn keeps tight controls on their players, so it isn't wrong of Baylor to do so, either". Maybe I misread him, but that's what I read. I happen to agree - the sexual orientation of players is their business, not the fans.

Thanks for this, but we don't know that "UConn keeps tight controls on their players [regarding their expression of sexual preference]" That's my point. Defending something that someone (Griner) has accused you of by assuming others do it, too.

 

[easttexastrash]

How do we "know" anything about "what seems"? Most 18-22 yr old students don't discuss their sexuality publicly, so why should we suppose that a very small subset of those students would feel otherwise but be prevented from expressing it? What we do know is that Geno is strongly supportive of his former players outspoken declaration of sexual choice. That is all we know.

When any institution (academic, public, religious, etc) commits an egregious crime, it behooves all connected with that institution to condemn the crime. Period. End of statement. It doesn't make it less egregious by suggesting that other institutions might have done something; on the contrary, that sort of moral relativism makes one complicit in one's institution's own crimes. You continue to box yourself into a rhetorical corner with defending the indefensible through your imputations of UConn. For the life of me, I just can't see why you don't leave it alone, like CL82 says.

I guess we could all learn to "leave it alone" at times.

 

[CL82]

You are just loaded with a wealth of good advice this morning.

Perhaps it just seems that way because you are loaded with uncharacteristic bad judgement today? I get it, I'm pretty uncomfortable with what's, allegedly, going on at Baylor. It must be rough if it is your rooting interest.

 

[j66kicker]

All schools have issues, however this one is very big, but the current students shouldn't have to get crucified from others on a regular basis because this is the school they chose. Be smart and realize that there are 2 sides to a story. We don't need to start bashing other schools because they currently have good programs in basketball. I think this whole situation is terrible, but let's keep this forum to WBB. We have a great UConn team breaking records and playing great basketball this year and some of you want to focus on a football program almost 2 years ago that went bad and has no affect on you?. Geez!

Oh, we started that a long time ago!

 

[DefenseBB]

Thanks for this, but we don't know that "UConn keeps tight controls on their players [regarding their expression of sexual preference]" That's my point. Defending something that someone (Griner) has accused you of by assuming others do it, too.

Actually UConn does have tight control on the social media component of all their players, not just WBB. Again, my only point to FF is anyone's sexual orientation is their own business and should be kept private. While I respect Brittany Griners basketball abilities, her maturity level and her personal choices have been a bit of a disaster the way she has played them out in public so using her as an example of free speech is probably not the best option.

 

[Buzzyboy]

It absolutely amazes me that grown adults will stoop to such a low level. None of us know the truth regarding the stories coming out of Baylor, nor will we ever know, but openly discussing a lawsuit that has nothing to do with WBB just isn't morally right. The women's program has nothing to do with the scandals so why should we demoralize the school on this board, much less throw any other athletic program into this conversation (MBB)? All schools have issues, however this one is very big, but the current students shouldn't have to get crucified from others on a regular basis because this is the school they chose. Be smart and realize that there are 2 sides to a story. We don't need to start bashing other schools because they currently have good programs in basketball. I think this whole situation is terrible, but let's keep this forum to WBB. We have a great UConn team breaking records and playing great basketball this year and some of you want to focus on a football program almost 2 years ago that went bad and has no affect on you?. Geez!

I think that there are numerous times people post things that are OT or off topic that get a lot of response from numerous people and sometimes these off topics are out and out silly but if people choose to respond to them, so be it. This particular topic is not anything close to silly because though it obviously is not something related to women's basketball and definitely not to this program, there have been many reports over the years where stellar athletes have abused their celebrity or been given inducements that are reprehensible. All too many "star athletes" have thought themselves entitled to whoever or whatever as a result of America's obsession with great performers and even had boosters or coaches soliciting for them where they feel that anything or anyone they want is theirs for the taking. Maybe it isn't like thousands of cases but even if it was only a handful, it's TOO MANY! Only recently there was that issue with the Louisville men's basketball program and it happens all too often. That "come to our school and we'll set you up with some babes" kind of thing that is reprehensible. It's something that should not be ignored and should be snuffed out because it's just totally wrong. There are some stories that there just isn't "two sides to" and it's pretty apparent that the thing going on at Baylor with their football program is one of those stories. How many others don't get reported because of the ridicule that some women would be subjected to because the implication is "they were asking for it or they're sleazy or they're lying just to get notoriety or the public humiliation or fear of reprisal. There are some real issues in our society and a lot of women are subjected to some bad things that shouldn't be swept under the carpet but brought into the light of the day, in my opinion.

 

[easttexastrash]

Actually UConn does have tight control on the social media component of all their players, not just WBB. Again, my only point to FF is anyone's sexual orientation is their own business and should be kept private. While I respect Brittany Griners basketball abilities, her maturity level and her personal choices have been a bit of a disaster the way she has played them out in public so using her as an example of free speech is probably not the best option.

BG was the face of the program and Kim just couldn't have the face of the program as that of a rainbow flag-waving lesbian. I am a part of the LGBT community but I can recognize that recruiting is tough enough already without your program being labeled the "lesbian" program. That reputation harmed UT (Texas) for many years.