OT: Baseball HOF Announcement at 2 Today

[tzznandrew]

I'm curious today for the Baseball HOF nominations. I'm hoping for good news for (1) Biggio, (2) Jack Morris, (3) Tim Raines, (4) Schilling (in real life, a , but just a great, great pitcher), (5) Murphy (won't happen), and (6) Trammell (won't happen). Not that I have a vote, but these would be my selections, along with two others, who I will spend more time on.

As a Mets fan (sad life, I know), I think (7) Piazza should be in. I know that there were rumors he used steroids, but one of the major informants was in the Mets clubhouse, and never named him. He was a great player—and his offense more than made up for his poor throwing arm. He called good games, and was good at protecting the plate.

I wouldn’t vote for known steroid users. This gets tricky. What about Bagwell? As a CT native, I’ve always pulled for him. Did he use steroids? I don’t know—but there was no firm evidence as there was for many other players. So I’d vote for him (8).

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Raphael Palmiero, Mark McGwire? They would not get my votes. What they did—and many others who would not get my votes—is to me ultimately worse than even what Pete Rose did. If Rose can’t be in, they can’t be in.

 

[Inyatkin]

Jack Morris has the big-game reputation, but doesn't have the career numbers. Would be the highest ERA of any starter in the Hall, apparently.

 

[msgordon]

the HOF debate/politics were crazy before steroids, now its almost out of control. biggio and piazza should be in. i personally wouldnt 100% discount someone because of steroids, but cant argue with someone that disagrees. i cant keep bonds out, he was the best player in baseball for a long while even before the juice. i hate clemens but cant keep him out either. guys like palmeiro, mcgwire, sosa...no thanks

 

[tzznandrew]

the HOF debate/politics were crazy before steroids, now its almost out of control. biggio and piazza should be in. i personally wouldnt 100% discount someone because of steroids, but cant argue with someone that disagrees. i cant keep bonds out, he was the best player in baseball for a long while even before the juice. i hate clemens but cant keep him out either. guys like palmeiro, mcgwire, sosa...no thanks

I think that's a respectable opinion. Pre-1998, Bonds had 3 MVPs. He was a clear HOF--probably even better than Griffey, although, because Griffey was media-friendly, you would hardly know it then. Clemens is in the same boat.

BUT, if you bar Pete Rose from the HOF, I don't think you can allow them in.

 

[hungry husky]

Biggio is overrated. Piazza was the best catcher in the MLB in his prime. Hope to see him in, keep the known roiders out.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Its a museum, put everyone in and to the extent there are any steroid facts they can be on the plaque. Until they remove Bonds and McGuire from the record books I really don't see much of a distinction between that & whether or not they have a bronze plaque in a museum too far away in the middle of nowhere for me to ever go to.

The steroid era debate actually is the biggest thing people really care about with respect to the HOF - the controversy gets on the radar screen so maybe they are best served by keeping them out. However, I think they'd at least generate a lot more visits for one year if they opened up the steroid user floodgates.

But it should be an interesting year this year and there are going to be guys that get in now or in the next few years with steroid suspicion which maybe slowly pries the gate open for all but those suspended for steroids.

 

[jfuchs91]

I can understand the reasoning of keeping guys like McGwire, Sosa, and Palmeiro out, but I really think it's laughable to deny Bonds and Clemens. The Hall of Fame is premised on including the great baseball players of all-time. Barry Bonds is arguably the greatest statistical player ever, and the most dominant player I've ever seen, no questions asked. Bonds and Clemens were the best players of their generation, and for the Hall of Fame not to recognize that really lessens their credibility.

There is no way to know who used PEDs or how many players in the MLB were juicing at the time, so to discriminate against certain players seems unfair. What if a supposed "clean" player is voted into the Hall of Fame and then later found to have been taking PEDs throughout his career? In my opinion, there are really only two ways to go about voting nowadays. The first is to not vote anyone in from the "steroid era". The second is to vote as you normally would any other era, but with a greater emphasis on how the player performed in relation to their peers, and not as much based on the inflated statistical numbers. While I'd understand why some people would take the first approach, it would completely ignore an entire era of baseball history. The fact that Barry Bonds won't be a first-ballot Hall of Famer (and who knows if he'll ever get in) boggles my mind.

 

[FASTEDDY]

Biggio is overrated. Piazza was the best catcher in the MLB in his prime. Hope to see him in, keep the known roiders out.

Sorry b/c I hate to disagree but Biggio is not overrated. Was an excellent player, over 3000 hits and was an all star at 2 positions (2nd Base and Catcher). Very very good long career. Big East guy (SH) to boot.

 

[FASTEDDY]

Bagwell should, but won't right now, also get strong consideration.

 

[uconndennis]

Biggio is overrated. Piazza was the best catcher in the MLB in his prime. Hope to see him in, keep the known roiders out.

100% this.

I saw what I thought was a good quote today on Biggio that summed up my thoughts....."I watched Craig Biggio play for almost 2 decades and I'll never tell my kids about him"

 

[Wise2]

Nobody was elected today. Biggio was the closest at 68%

 

[msgordon]

thats what i suspected, too many candidates and voters with different agendas. maybe the strongest ballot since the original ones and its the first time in 16 years no one gets elected, i think everyone knows its kind of a joke. maddux gets in for sure next year, after that who knows

 

[Fishy]

Here is my fear for the Hall of Fame - and it's a minor fear given that I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

1) Writers will become amateur detectives trying to determine who they think did steroids and unfairly hold that against certain players.
2) Player who never did steroids and who had to pitch and hit against the 'roid monsters and who might have been Hall of Famers on a level field will never get consideration.
3) Some clown writers will act like they're voting for the Pope and send it blank ballots and then pretend they've just struck a blow for justice.

Now, they have no one going in this year.

If baseball had half a brain, they'd save that weekend as best they can and put Roger Maris in. No one tells their kids about Craig Biggio, but they sure told 'em about Roger Maris and it is, after all, a hall of fame.

 

[geordi]

I guess no one getting in this year is poetic justice. Unfortunately, there are already a bunch of people who ARE in that shouldn't be. i.e. Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Nellie Fox, Phil Rizzuto, Enos Slaughter, Phil Niekro, Gaylord Perry, probably some others too. Then even someone like Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb can't get 100% of the votes. What's that about? It's not the Hall of Fame any more anyway. It's the Hall of the Very Good.

 

[arnie3]

I think that they're going to have to change the make up of the voters. Six hundred plus is ridiculous. Having a revolving committee made up of people actually associated with the game makes more sense. However this won't happen anytime soon because next year you have Maddox eligible and he'll get in on the first ballot, probably Biggio, too. So there won't be any incentive to change things. The absurdity of this to me is that it's the most prestigious "Hall", and writer's are making it a bully pulpit. Shame on them!

 

[Dogdeacon]

No one getting in is a massive oops. It is not poetic, it is the result of a fractured process that is headed towards irreperably broken. They should make a rule that if no one gets in every voter/writer has to attend the annual Cooperstown ceremony to retain their vote. That'd ensure no more shutouts.

I suppose the veteran's committee will make sure they vote someone in or give some honorary degree so that they can have a ceremony and a game. Great pitcher and all and I'm sure he'll get in first ballot, but Greg Maddux is boring and I'm not sure I'd cross the street to hear his induction speech. Clemens, Bonds, etc. on the other hand...

 

[arnie3]

No one getting in is a massive oops. It is not poetic, it is the result of a fractured process that is headed towards irreperably broken. They should make a rule that if no one gets in every voter/writer has to attend the annual Cooperstown ceremony to retain their vote. That'd ensure no more shutouts.

I suppose the veteran's committee will make sure they vote someone in or give some honorary degree so that they can have a ceremony and a game. Great pitcher and all and I'm sure he'll get in first ballot, but Greg Maddux is boring and I'm not sure I'd cross the street to hear his induction speech. Clemens, Bonds, etc. on the other hand...

Three from the veteran's committee will be inducted. All are dead. Is this symbolic?

 

[kibblesnbits]

I suppose the veteran's committee will make sure they vote someone in or give some honorary degree so that they can have a ceremony and a game.

They don't play the traditional Hall of Fame Game following the induction ceremony any more. We used to go as kids and it was great fun. The ballpark is intimate and the real players would spend a lot of time signing autographs and talking to the fans. Invariably the pitchers were minor league call ups and the starters (if they played) were out by the end of the 3rd, but we didn't care. It was a chance to see major league players up close in a fanstastic setting.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Somebody voted for Aaron Sele. That tells you all you need to know.

 

[tzznandrew]

On Biggio: if you only went with players you'd tell your kids about, the HoF wouldn't have a ton of players.

Jeter's stats are better than Biggio's, say, but how much of that has to do with the fact that one played for the Yanks and the other for the Astros. You always had to pitch to Jeter, and there were always guys on base.

Again, Jeter is better than Biggio (enough so as to be far more clearly a first-ballot HOFer)...but Biggio didn't have the team around him to allow you to regale your kids with stories of him.

 

[B1GEast]

my only question is, if Sammy Sosa ever gets into the HOF, will it be as a white or black guy?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/07/sammy-sosas-skin-photos-p_n_349602.html

 

[ZenConn]

my only question is, if Sammy Sosa ever gets into the HOF, will it be as a white or black guy?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/07/sammy-sosas-skin-photos-p_n_349602.html

LOL. Perhaps as a bronze guy.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Schilling had a good take saying it was a refernedum on the era and besides blackballing the suspected steroid users it also sent a punititve message to those that didn't speak up when steroid abuse was rampant.

Nonetheless, one article mentioned the no inductees in the context of the HOF losing more than $2MM in 2011 and posting book losses in 8/10 years. If that matters certainly coming up with some sort of solution to the steroid era boosts attendance/revenue.

I think I like one of Goose Gossages extreme point the best. Among various rantings he spoke about Lance Armstrong being stripped of his titles after his doping 'conviction'. The HOF argument has always been a subjective and disingenuous. But the problem is baseball has no testing to review and thus can't correct the record books. Bonds quasi admitted, McGuire same, Sosa nothing so now does Sammi hold single season HR record?! How many HR's can you take away from Bonds? So we are back full circle, the only way to note their accomplishments and their likely transgressions is to put them in the museum with a steroid asterisk. Otherwise current stalemate that is bad for all.

 

[Danzz]

Biggio is overrated. Piazza was the best catcher in the MLB in his prime. Hope to see him in, keep the known roiders out.

Correction: Piazza was one of the better hitting players who played the catching position. He was a horrible catcher.

 

[ZenConn]

Schilling had a good take saying it was a refernedum on the era and besides blackballing the suspected steroid users it also sent a punititve message to those that didn't speak up when steroid abuse was rampant.

All this coming from a guy that went 52-52 before 30 and 164-94 after. Everyone playing in that ERA should be questioned, doesn't matter who.