OT Barkley trashing Daryl Morey on Analytics
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An absolute must watch, for once I actually agree with Barkley, Daryl Morey is like the Billy Beane of the NBA.
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I support the idea that a reliance on analytics can be foolish and detrimental but I wish someone else made the point. These guys sound idiotic. Kenny and Shaq think 3 point percentage is analytics. Chuck doesn't think the Spurs use analytics. They are out of their depth.
That said, it's all entertaining and I'd still take Chuck on his worst day over Morey on his best, personality wise.
That said, it's all entertaining and I'd still take Chuck on his worst day over Morey on his best, personality wise.
nomar
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I love Chuck but he and a lot of people think bluntness -- "calling it like he sees it" -- equates to intelligence. He's not dumb but he says a lot of dumb stuff.
As for Morey, he'd be wise to remember this George Bernard Shaw chestnut: "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." Barkley lives for this stuff.
As for Morey, he'd be wise to remember this George Bernard Shaw chestnut: "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." Barkley lives for this stuff.
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Charles is wonderful entertainment. 
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This was my take as well, Barkley is dead wrong about analytics. At the same time, for Morey to pick a fight with Barkley was about the dumbest thing he could do. Barkley is going to tear into you, and it's going to be funny, and he's going to drop some zingers, and America is going to laugh at you. You may be right, but you'll lose in the court of public opinion.
I love that Barkley says Morey is stupid for being so analytic reliant. Then he says putting great players together isn't analytics. Yet he doesn't even consider that the whole time Morey has been a GM he has been trying to assemble as much elite talent as possible, culminating in the masterful Harden trade and the Dwight Howard signing. Guess what Charles, analytics say you want a bunch of elite talent! You guys agree, dummy.
Yeah. The movie Chef uses this as a subplot to great effect detailing a social media argument between a blogger and a chef.
Yeah. The movie Chef uses this as a subplot to great effect detailing a social media argument between a blogger and a chef.
CAHUSKY
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I never liked Chuck and hated how he always spoke negatively about UCONN. That changed at the Final Four in Dallas where he picked up the drinks for about 100 people in the rear section of the restaurant off the Hyatt lobby and led the crowd in a chant, at our encouraging, of U.................C................O.............N.............N. UCONN, UCONN, UCONN!!! I think I posted the video on the boneyard the night it happened but need to look and see if I can find it and post it again. It was awesome. Im guessing there were probably other boneyarders in the restaurant that night who witnessed it.
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CAHUSKY said:
He loved us in other years though. I remember him saying often in 04', 06' or 09', that UCONN would beat ABC NBA team while doing the TNT/NBA broadcasts with Kenny and Ernie. He just likes whoever he likes any given year. He's not a shill like Dickie V. He just didn't think we were good last year and much of the year, we weren't. He just didn't see that we were peaking.
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I see where both sides are coming from but I tend to side with Charles on this one but not fully...
I feel that analytics often are a cop out for those who don't fully understand the game. Analytics is what had Rudy Gay traded all around the country, and fans believing he is a bad player. Not looking at his talents (phenomenal ball handler for his size, nice stroke, one of a kind athleticism). I've been on boards where majority would say Rudy stinks.
In my eyes analytics are only good for backing the result you get from the eye test. If I had to rely on one to build a franchise Id pick the eye test.
I wish that Charles articulated his self better and didn't turn this into a joke. Because this a big topic in basketball and evolving how the game is being perceived.
I feel that analytics often are a cop out for those who don't fully understand the game. Analytics is what had Rudy Gay traded all around the country, and fans believing he is a bad player. Not looking at his talents (phenomenal ball handler for his size, nice stroke, one of a kind athleticism). I've been on boards where majority would say Rudy stinks.
In my eyes analytics are only good for backing the result you get from the eye test. If I had to rely on one to build a franchise Id pick the eye test.
I wish that Charles articulated his self better and didn't turn this into a joke. Because this a big topic in basketball and evolving how the game is being perceived.
whaler11
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Did you happen to noticed that UConn underachieved with Gay and every NBA team that has moved him has improved immediately?
I will always remember the thread where someone compared a person to Billy Beane.... and implied it was negative.
You run a NBA franchise with the eye test and give everyone else the data and you'll finish in the lottery until you luck into Davis or LeBron.
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Rudy's play for most of his career is why people thought he wasn't a particularly great player. You literally just named a bunch of isolated attributes and then said you rely on the "eye test." That makes no sense. Also, you would probably be fired pretty quickly as an NBA GM.
Having more information is better than having less information. Those teams that have figured out a way to process data and draw conclusions from it have been pretty successful, and have actually revolutionized the game.
You know who strikes me as someone who's on the same page as Charles when it comes to analytics? Byron Scott.
Having more information is better than having less information. Those teams that have figured out a way to process data and draw conclusions from it have been pretty successful, and have actually revolutionized the game.
You know who strikes me as someone who's on the same page as Charles when it comes to analytics? Byron Scott.
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I don't think your understanding what Im saying or maybe I worded it wrong...
I think the eye test is more valuable than analytics,I am not completely against analytics I think it should be used to reinforce the eye test... I used rudy gay as an example because i know a lot of people on this board are not big into the NBA and just wanted to use a Uconn alum to show how analytics has turned a player who I feel is one of the 30 most talented in the league, into what some would say is a bad player.
Analytic's is a nice tool but shouldn't solely be relied upon. Could you imagine if Ollie stopped going to see scouts and wanted player solely off of there height, wingspan, vertical leap, PER and win share rather than going to see them with his own eyes.
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Analytics has pointed to Gay being a not good, not as talented player. But when you watch him are you not wowed by his skill set? All I'm saying. ONCE AGAIN IM NOT AGAINST ANALYTICS. but it should be used as reinforcements not a main criteria in saying a player is good or not.
But that's the whole point. Skillset and eyetest are wrong about Gay. He looks great, but teams with him don't win.
whaler11
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Analytics point at Gay as not being a good player. I'll break some news to you.... the analytics are right.
Because he picks the team with the most hype in the tournament, and doesn't use any analysis, Kenny Smith liked us in the tournament last year all tournament long.
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I've been disappointed with Rudy's ability to help his team win at both UCONN and with the Grizzlies. He has, however, actually steadily improved his PER over his career and is currently 38th in the league. Sacramento's been good for him (has he been good for Sacramento though?). With a top ten salary, he is by no means a "value" relative to #38 PER, but a far cry from "bad". Clearly with his athletic abilities we'd like him to be a perennial all star, this is not reality. I still think Rudy gets needlessly trashed. The kids solid from an individual skill standpoint.
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/15/1/
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He's absolutely a good player. He's consistently a top 50 player in the league. His teams at UConn won two Big East titles and 53 games. Math and "analytics" will tell you that the NCAA tournament is pretty much a crapshoot, but if you want to get on him for not going further there, then go ahead.
whaler11
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Nobody makes the variance argument about the tournament louder than I do. I'm fairly sure he wasn't the only player on those UConn teams that won regular season titles.
I wouldn't expect the removal of a top 50 player to lead to consistent immediate improvment of team results - but I guess that's possible.
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