OT: Article - What If NYC Evicted Madison Square Garden? | The Boneyard

OT: Article - What If NYC Evicted Madison Square Garden?

TJT said:
It was a crime against man to tear down the original magnificient Penn Station.
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After only being open 50 years! The thing cost something like 100 million to build in 1910. For reference, Yankee Stadium cost 2.5m in 1920. Insult to injury was the cramped replacement
 
businesslawyer said:
I'm sorry. The Knicks are a much bigger crime against man than the loss of any architectural landmark.
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Is Dolan now the worst owner in the NBA? Has he taken over for Sterling in that department?
 
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Wasn't the 'old' Penn St located across 8th Ave in what is now the Post Office bldg?
 
Here is a picture from 1968 when MSG was built.

1540327950553.png
 
sledog said:
Wasn't the 'old' Penn St located across 8th Ave in what is now the Post Office bldg?
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No. The original Penn Station stood where that horrid MSG thing is. The post office was built by the same architects, though.
 
I was not familiar with the history of penn station, so did a little reading. Holy hell, how did they let that building get torn down? At least it caused the historic preservation movement which appears to have stopped Grand Central falling to a similar fate.
 
intlzncster said:
Is Dolan now the worst owner in the NBA? Has he taken over for Sterling in that department?
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Without question, James Dolan is not just the worst owner in the NBA, he is the worst owner in all of sports now that Jeffrey Loria sold the Marlins.
 
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Dooley said:
Without question, James Dolan is not just the worst owner in the NBA. He is the worst owner in all of sports now that Jeffrey Loria sold the Marlins.
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Sarver's worse, as is Vivek.
 
Matrim55 said:
Sarver's worse, as is Vivek.
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With all due respect to the cities of Sacramento and Phoenix, Dolan can't convince a single superstar to play basketball in New York City at the Mecca of Basketball.
 
Dooley said:
With all due respect to the cities of Sacramento and Phoenix, Dolan can't convince a single superstar to play basketball in New York City at the Mecca of Basketball.
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That's a very fair criticism that won't apply as of next summer, I don't think.

People used to say the same of the Celtics. Then Horford & Hayward happened, so...
 
This has been talked about for a while now. Many in NYC feel that Dolan's recent renovation of MSG was a giant middle finger to NYC leadership (Bloomberg at the time) as its well known that MSG is preventing the expansion and renovation of Penn Station as the tracks under MSG can't be moved. Dolan has not had a good relationship with NYC officials since the 2012 NYC Olympic bid, which was supported by the City and opposed by Dolan because he viewed a West Side football stadium as direct competition for MSG.

That said, the City and State are taking a lot on in terms of debt with the complete re-build of LaGuardia Airport, the replacement of Terminal A at Newark and a new terminal at Kennedy along with the on-going fight for a new Hudson rail tunnel as the current pair were badly damanged by Sandy. In addition, funding for a new Penn Station will likely compete with funding for a new Bus Terminal, both of which are located in the same neighborhood.
 
Matrim55 said:
That's a very fair criticism that won't apply as of next summer, I don't think.

People used to say the same of the Celtics. Then Horford & Hayward happened, so...
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I hope you're right. The Knicks are such a mess right now that I can't believe any of these free agent rumors until the ink is dried and the press conference is over. You are right about the Celts though. That franchise is the shining light beacon for all franchise transformations and "trusting the process".
 
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I think making this thread brought me some good luck as I was able to buy a pair of tickets today on a rerelease to Phish at MSG on 12/28.
They are the one thing that keeps bringing me back to MSG year after year.
 
Dooley said:
With all due respect to the cities of Sacramento and Phoenix, Dolan can't convince a single superstar to play basketball in New York City at the Mecca of Basketball.
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I don't understand why people think this should be an automatic. The Knicks never attracted a superstar in the dozen years or so free agency existed before Dolan bought the team. Not to mention they aren't the Yankees and the NBA has a salary cap.
 
Lefty2one said:
I don't understand why people think this should be an automatic. The Knicks never attracted a superstar in the dozen years or so free agency existed before Dolan bought the team. Not to mention they aren't the Yankees and the NBA has a salary cap.
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I don't think it should be automatic and never said so. But I do think playing basketball in New York at Madison Square Garden has appeal that is never utilized for whatever reason. The NHL also has a salary cap and the Rangers are far from being the Yankees too, yet hockey free agents jump at the opportunity to play there in the same building. And New York is a far bigger basketball city than it is a hockey city.
 
I think the younger generation sees the Staples Center as the Mecca, not the Garden. It was actually the third Garden that cultivated the image of "Mecca of basketball", and this was built by college ball, not the pros. The Knicks built on this with their great early 70s teams, and the BE Tournament also helped. However, the Lakers have come to overshadow all of that. Kids today grow up dreaming of playing for the Lakers. Who, outside of the NY metro area, grows up dreaming of playing for the Knicks?
 
Dooley said:
I don't think it should be automatic and never said so. But I do think playing basketball in New York at Madison Square Garden has appeal that is never utilized for whatever reason. The NHL also has a salary cap and the Rangers are far from being the Yankees too, yet hockey free agents jump at the opportunity to play there in the same building. And New York is a far bigger basketball city than it is a hockey city.
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Who own da rangers?
 
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Tear MSG down. Its a horrible building. Why would you puta basketball arena on top of the busiest train stain in America. World class cities should have the best travel terminals and sports arenas. Not the worst. The fans make MSG great, not the building.
 
Drame said:
Tear MSG down. Its a horrible building. Why would you puta basketball arena on top of the busiest train stain in America. World class cities should have the best travel terminals and sports arenas. Not the worst. The fans make MSG great, not the building.
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Building large stadiums/arenas/convention centers over train line is not unusual as the land is usually 'cheap' (especially when public entities are willing to throw money into it to spure redevelopment of a neighorhood) for building that don't generate as much money as a business skyscraper and/or condo and are also lighter than them. That said, most are built on extra space that a rail yard no longer needs, such as Safeco in Seattle, Coors in Denver, Rogers in Toronto, and Camden Yards in Baltimore, and not on top of an active rail line, such as MSG in NYC (Penn Station) and the TD Garden in Boston (North Station).
 
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