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OT: Anyone do 23andMe?

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8893

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@Paesano 's post in my thread requesting Christmas gift suggestions for Mrs. 8893 got me thinking about this, after hearing commercials for it for several months now. Quick scan of the online reviews look mixed, and I'm wondering if anyone here has tried it and, if so, what you think of it. Also, did you just do ancestry, or health as well?

Truth be told, I'd like it for myself, but I'd like her to be the guinea pig. But if it's crap, I don't want to waste more thought on it.
 

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@Paesano 's post in my thread requesting Christmas gift suggestions for Mrs. 8893 got me thinking about this, after hearing commercials for it for several months now. Quick scan of the online reviews look mixed, and I'm wondering if anyone here has tried it and, if so, what you think of it. Also, did you just do ancestry, or health as well?

Truth be told, I'd like it for myself, but I'd like her to be the guinea pig. But if it's crap, I don't want to waste more thought on it.

I'm interested as well as I know my wife has an interest in genetic testing to show ancestry information. Anyone know what the main choices are or the best tests?
 

temery

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I've done it all - 23andme, FTDNA, and ancestry. Which one is best depends on what you are looking for. McD has a good summary, if I can did it up. I'm not sure what his username is here or I'd flag him.

What are you hoping to accomplish?
 

8893

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What are you hoping to accomplish?
Finding out relevant, accurate ancestry data beyond great grandparents, which is as far back we know with confidence.

I'm wary of the health stuff, especially if it does not have a high degree of confidence, as I don't want to raise more questions or give rise to concerns that are either unwarranted or about which nothing can be done.
 

temery

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Finding out relevant, accurate ancestry data beyond great grandparents, which is as far back we know with confidence.

I'm wary of the health stuff, especially if it does not have a high degree of confidence, as I don't want to raise more questions or give rise to concerns that are either unwarranted or about which nothing can be done.

Go with ancestry if you have a tree with them. Definitely also upload to gedmatch.com (free). If you don't have a tree with ancestry, FTDNA is a good alternative.

As for 23andme, and the health testing ... they were unfortunately spots on for me, but you are right to be wary. If you do go with 23andme, consider spending a few more bucks on a genetic consultant for the med tests. There's a lot to see and worry about, that you really don't need to see and worry about.
 
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What's the best site to begin the "family tree" and the most confident it's not a bunch of crap? My wife does want to do that.
 
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always been curious about this.

my paternal grandma was adopted -- papers my dad has say her birth family was from greece, but they have a russian jewish surname (volosin) and there's been a long-standing family rumor that she may have had romani (gypsy) ancestry as well. total mystery.
 

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always been curious about this.

my paternal grandma was adopted -- papers my dad has say her birth family was from greece, but they have a russian jewish surname (volosin) and there's been a long-standing family rumor that she may have had romani (gypsy) ancestry as well. total mystery.
My eye doctor has long maintained that my eye anatomy is most similar to that of an African American, and when he learned that my mother was 100% Italian that only increased his suspicion. Every time he brings it up I am reminded of the Sicilian scene with Christopher Walken and Dennis Hopper in True Romance. My mother was not Sicilian, but it makes me very curious about my ancestry.
 
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Here is my plan. We are doing 22andme for now. If the results are interesting we will dig deeper using one of the paternal or maternal systems. Scary but you and I are both sicilian and wondering the same thing. For me that means a maternal search to dig deeper. However, my father's family is from Rome and his uncle in Italy have already traced our family back to 200BC. It would be interesting to see how deep I can go with that. I may do both for the hell of it.
 

8893

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Here is my plan. We are doing 22andme for now. If the results are interesting we will dig deeper using one of the paternal or maternal systems. Scary but you and I are both sicilian and wondering the same thing. For me that means a maternal search to dig deeper. However, my father's family is from Rome and his uncle in Italy have already traced our family back to 200BC. It would be interesting to see how deep I can go with that. I may do both for the hell of it.
My Mom was Napoletana, not Sicilian, but yes I am still curious about that, among other things.
 
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They kept really good records during the Roman Empire. The person he traced it back to was in the Roman Army and he settled in an area very near Rome.
 

temery

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Here is my plan. We are doing 22andme for now. If the results are interesting we will dig deeper using one of the paternal or maternal systems. Scary but you and I are both sicilian and wondering the same thing. For me that means a maternal search to dig deeper. However, my father's family is from Rome and his uncle in Italy have already traced our family back to 200BC. It would be interesting to see how deep I can go with that. I may do both for the hell of it.

I did the Y DNA test because the father of my paternal grandfather is a mystery. As it turns out, the Y DNA test has been close to useless, to date. And the family finder test is useful only for three or four generations at best. Even four is a crap shoot.
 

temery

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How is that even possible?

It's far more hope than reality. Some day DNA will help confirm distant connections, but we're not even close to being there yet.

I've read that on avg, with every four generations there is likely a question of fatherhood.

Bottom line: at least one of your great grandmothers step out on your great granddad. On avg, this is true for every four generations.


IMG_5537.JPG
 

CL82

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They kept really good records during the Roman Empire. The person he traced it back to was in the Roman Army and he settled in an area very near Rome.
And they must have lived in the only settlement in Italy that didn't have the local church burn down in two millennia.

Color me skeptical, but still very cool!
 
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My eye doctor has long maintained that my eye anatomy is most similar to that of an African American, and when he learned that my mother was 100% Italian that only increased his suspicion.
... could be as more than a few Africans migrated (or, were migrated) to present day Italy, ancestors of current people of Italian background found their way to Africa, current day Eritrea and Somalia were Italian colonies, Ethiopia under Mussolini's control, etc. Beware, your DNA results may well be used against you when prosecuted in criminal court. ;)
 
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And they must have lived in the only settlement in Italy that didn't have the local church burn down in two millennia.

Color me skeptical, but still very cool!
Oh, it gets much more interesting. It so happens that I have been thinking about my father a lot today. He died 28 years ago today. I was in the middle of finals in my junior year at UConn. I am also picking up my son today from college for winter break. He is named after my father.

Our family name is actually Roman and not what you would call modern era Italian. It was derived from the Latin name for a Roman god related to farming. I won't say which one.

Supposedly, this guy became a farmer after his days in the army. He was gifted a HUGE amount of land for his service. Over many many generations it has been divided up into much smaller pieces. However, my grandfather's land was still large enough for a small farm. Now here is where it gets really wild. He supposedly also fought, on the side, as a gladiator. The story is eerily similar to the Russell Crowe movie except he settled in the hills outside of Rome, not in Spain, and there wasn't a tragic ending that I am aware of. From what I understand, this was not an unusual story (soldier turned farmer/gladiator) for that time period. I hope to get back to Italy some day to review the records my father's uncle dug up. Crazy stuff.
 

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My eye doctor has long maintained that my eye anatomy is most similar to that of an African American, and when he learned that my mother was 100% Italian that only increased his suspicion. Every time he brings it up I am reminded of the Sicilian scene with Christopher Walken and Dennis Hopper in True Romance. My mother was not Sicilian, but it makes me very curious about my ancestry.
What you are describing is a "phenotype", namely a particular characteristic based on a gene or set of genes. In a word what the eye doctor told you is BS (and not boy scouts). Geneticists are reserved and will not ascribe a phenotype unless it can be reliably traced and reproduced either in a tractable model (we use mice) or demonstrated by genetic and mathematical models. In humans the phenotype most (greater than 90% consensus) will agree upon is blood type, as that has been experimentally proven and stands up to mathematical scrutiny. Assigning a phenotype to ancestors from west Africa (where the majority of African Americans originated) is a gross over reach of the available data, there are too many confounding factors to state a given population possesses a gene mutation / transcription / polymorphism that confers this quality. What happened was confirmation bias, the doctor saw something, and then latched on to it and just continued that observation until the finding was "confirmed."

All that said a colleague (and previous co-author) works at Helix. He will state emphatically that the foundation is strong but concede the details are murky when it comes to this sort of thing. I knew guys that got 23andMe in the beta stages, and I was offered to participate in Helix's beta, but to me all this is just some nice hand waving, alchemy, and magic. There's science in it, and it will provide direction - vague incomplete direction - but any conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt. Certainly do not, under any circumstances, make any life changing decisions based on the results. rather submit to a proper genetic screening, with consultation by a medical geneticist if something looks odd.

BTW most of these tests look for collections of Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNP's, SNiP's) that cluster in populations. Usually these gather together as they are passed on among generations and within geographic regions. The problem is these can statistically appear anywhere and in anyone. These companies select particular SNP's which appear to have originated in certain geographic regions and are present (or expressed) in contemporary local populations in order to assign heritage. However, as I stated these are not statistically bulletproof models and results can be widely askew due to very small variations. Helix claims to have a wider data set to which to compare. (This SNP appears often in a given place, you have it, so you must have ancestors from that place). They also have more Illumina machines in one building then some university systems have in the state.
 

CL82

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Oh, it gets much more interesting. It so happens that I have been thinking about my father a lot today. He died 28 years ago today. I was in the middle of finals in my junior year at UConn. I am also picking up my son today from college for winter break. He is named after my father.

Our family name is actually Roman and not what you would call modern era Italian. It was derived from the Latin name for a Roman god related to farming. I won't say which one.

Supposedly, this guy became a farmer after his days in the army. He was gifted a HUGE amount of land for his service. Over many many generations it has been divided up into much smaller pieces. However, my grandfather's land was still large enough for a small farm. Now here is where it gets really wild. He supposedly also fought, on the side, as a gladiator. The story is eerily similar to the Russell Crowe movie except he settled in the hills outside of Rome, not in Spain, and there wasn't a tragic ending that I am aware of. From what I understand, this was not an unusual story (soldier turned farmer/gladiator) for that time period. I hope to get back to Italy some day to review the records my father's uncle dug up. Crazy stuff.
I wish I could like this a bunch more. Great stuff!
 

8893

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What you are describing is a "phenotype", namely a particular characteristic based on a gene or set of genes. In a word what the eye doctor told you is BS (and not boy scouts). Geneticists are reserved and will not ascribe a phenotype unless it can be reliably traced and reproduced either in a tractable model (we use mice) or demonstrated by genetic and mathematical models. In humans the phenotype most (greater than 90% consensus) will agree upon is blood type, as that has been experimentally proven and stands up to mathematical scrutiny. Assigning a phenotype to ancestors from west Africa (where the majority of African Americans originated) is a gross over reach of the available data, there are too many confounding factors to state a given population possesses a gene mutation / transcription / polymorphism that confers this quality. What happened was confirmation bias, the doctor saw something, and then latched on to it and just continued that observation until the finding was "confirmed."

All that said a colleague (and previous co-author) works at Helix. He will state emphatically that the foundation is strong but concede the details are murky when it comes to this sort of thing. I knew guys that got 23andMe in the beta stages, and I was offered to participate in Helix's beta, but to me all this is just some nice hand waving, alchemy, and magic. There's science in it, and it will provide direction - vague incomplete direction - but any conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt. Certainly do not, under any circumstances, make any life changing decisions based on the results. rather submit to a proper genetic screening, with consultation by a medical geneticist if something looks odd.

BTW most of these tests look for collections of Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNP's, SNiP's) that cluster in populations. Usually these gather together as they are passed on among generations and within geographic regions. The problem is these can statistically appear anywhere and in anyone. These companies select particular SNP's which appear to have originated in certain geographic regions and are present (or expressed) in contemporary local populations in order to assign heritage. However, as I stated these are not statistically bulletproof models and results can be widely askew due to very small variations. Helix claims to have a wider data set to which to compare. (This SNP appears often in a given place, you have it, so you must have ancestors from that place). They also have more Illumina machines in one building then some university systems have in the state.
Thanks. Great info.

As for my eye doctor, to be clear, it was delivered and received as nothing more than his observation based on his experience. He did not suggest that he was making a medical or scientific finding; it was more of an offhand comment that I continued to goad on over the years so I could urge him to watch the True Romance scene, which, remarkably, he had never seen.
 
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