OT- Any hockey fans?

[intlzncster]

Because that's what matters most. You forget that the Krafts ran Tuna out of town and the team turned back into crap. They get props for bringing in Belichick. If they don't do that, the team stays crappy and Kraft is just another meddlesome owner like Jerry Jones.

Fan support, facilities, TV, quality of org are all important for getting players to come and having the money to pay. Running tuna out of town was a good thing. As he's shown over the years, tuna is not a good long term option. Tuna can't get out of the way of his own ego.

And recognizing the greatness of BB and being willing to give up a first for him was nothing short of genius. Especially given belichik's previous failing in Cleveland.

Most importantly, Kraft learned from the tuna situation that he shouldn't mess with management. Few billionaire owners can resist. But the culture of the organization flows directly from the top.

 

[Husky25]

Yep, I miss the old Civic Center I used to always go to the old Wendys there and sneak in food under my Whalers starter jacket which I still have btw lol, good times.

If it's the Civic Center you miss, you can go there anytime. There is no more mall, but the arena is the exact same. It is also one of the reasons the NHL won't return to Hartford and none of Global Spectrum's improvements get it any closer. The building has to be gutted at least, which will reduce capacity because luxury boxes and club seats need be installed. It will probably bring hockey capacity to or below 14,000. Except for Winnipeg and NYI, NHL venues are above 17,000. That means the building should probably be razed and rebuilt...but can a 17,500 stadium fit on the current footprint? Doubtful.

Regardless, a new building is probably too much public expense for only a hope.

 

[August_West]

If it's the Civic Center you miss, you can go there anytime. There is no more mall, but the arena is the exact same. It is also one of the reasons the NHL won't return to Hartford and none of Global Spectrum's improvements get it any closer. The building has to be gutted at least, which will reduce capacity because luxury boxes and club seats need be installed. It will probably bring hockey capacity to or below 14,000. Except for Winnipeg and NYI, NHL venues are above 17,000. That means the building should probably be razed and rebuilt...but can a 17,500 stadium fit on the current footprint? Doubtful.

Regardless, a new building is probably too much public expense for only a hope.

Hockey will NEVER be back in Hartford. We had our shot and blew it. More inept ownership and management to blame for the fans lethargy.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

If it's the Civic Center you miss, you can go there anytime. There is no more mall, but the arena is the exact same. It is also one of the reasons the NHL won't return to Hartford and none of Global Spectrum's improvements get it any closer. The building has to be gutted at least, which will reduce capacity because luxury boxes and club seats need be installed. It will probably bring hockey capacity to or below 14,000. Except for Winnipeg and NYI, NHL venues are above 17,000. That means the building should probably be razed and rebuilt...but can a 17,500 stadium fit on the current footprint? Doubtful.

Regardless, a new building is probably too much public expense for only a hope.

There was talk about a new arena being built just North of I-84 on Main Street; but, very recent developments know have that lot being used for the potentially relocated New Britain RockCats AA baseball team (see other thread). But, I believe Hartford sold the Church Street Garage across from the XL that could be used to expand a new/rebuild arena if the city closed that block of Church Street. Not sure how the parking would be replaced (hopefully not on top, i.e. the old New Haven Coliseum).

Either way, I still strong believe that Hartford’s problems need to be separated from UConn’s. UConn needs an on-campus 12K or so arena for basketball (and maybe hockey). Hartford needs to then decide if it wants a 18K arena for a NHL team, which I believe is a pipedream especially with Bettman still in charge, or a top-of-the-line, 10K arena for minor league hockey more along the lines of what Providence, Albany, Rochester, Grand Rapids, etc. have.

 

[Waquoit]

And recognizing the greatness of BB and being willing to give up a first for him was nothing short of genius. Especially given belichik's previous failing in Cleveland..

What failure was that? He got that franchise to the playoffs. The fans turned on him because he had no use for Bernie Kosar anymore. The fanbase chose Bernie over Bill, that's why I have little sympathy for Browns fans.

 

[IHeartStairs]

Saying Whaler fan's blew it is insane. We outdrew the the Bruins on multiple occasions in the 80's (when we were good) yet they get called a great hockey town even though no one mentions they drew barely 75% capacity in the mid 2000's. The Blackhawks finished last in the league in total attendance 2005-07. heck even the Penguins were being shopped to other cities before Crosby was drafted. Fans EVERYWHERE show up for a winner and inept (corrupt) management killed my team, not the fans. It could work again and a new arena downtown not only keeps those hopes alive but it puts UConn in a better position for the future as well.

 

[Husky25]

Saying Whaler fan's blew it is insane. We outdrew the the Bruins on multiple occasions in the 80's (when we were good) yet they get called a great hockey town even though no one mentions they drew barely 75% capacity in the mid 2000's. The Blackhawks finished last in the league in total attendance 2005-07. heck even the Penguins were being shopped to other cities before Crosby was drafted. Fans EVERYWHERE show up for a winner and inept (corrupt) management killed my team, not the fans. It could work again and a new arena downtown not only keeps those hopes alive but it puts UConn in a better position for the future as well.

The old Garden sat an uncomfortable 14,448 for hockey. If you want to measure a team's following, look at capacity percentage, not just paid attendence over a 41 game schedule. There were many a night that Bruins fans outdrew the Whalers in on Trumbull Street.

Boston was not a good organization after the strike in '05, but 75% of 17,500 is still 13,000. Not bad for a last place team. Then they went through a major culture change around '07-08 timeframe. Jacobs actually references and credits the Sox and Patriots for it. He didn't want the Bruins to be the only franchise in town to not win a Championship.

 

[IHeartStairs]

The old Garden sat an uncomfortable 14,448 for hockey. If you want to measure a team's following, look at capacity percentage, not just paid attendence over a 41 game schedule. There were many a night that Bruins fans outdrew the Whalers in on Trumbull Street.

Boston was not a good organization after the strike in '05, but 75% of 17,500 is still 13,000. Not bad for a last place team. Then they went through a major culture change around '07-08 timeframe. Jacobs actually references and credits the Sox and Patriots for it. He didn't want the Bruins to be the only franchise in town to not win a Championship.

Yup and by looking at percentage in the Whalers best years 86-87 The Bruins drew 12,431 and 12,128 which is around 83% filled in a HUGE market compared to the Whale average of 92% filled in a limited market. I'm not saying we had a filled building every night each year because that is far from the truth but I'm sick and tired of people singling out Hartford for not packing them in for a losing team when even OG6 teams (in the US) struggle at the gate when the team is losing. I think an NHL team could strive here with the right ownership, good marketing and corporate support all of which was absent in the past. Replacing the Civic Center is step one.

 

[Scoe]

If it's the Civic Center you miss, you can go there anytime. There is no more mall, but the arena is the exact same. It is also one of the reasons the NHL won't return to Hartford and none of Global Spectrum's improvements get it any closer. The building has to be gutted at least, which will reduce capacity because luxury boxes and club seats need be installed. It will probably bring hockey capacity to or below 14,000. Except for Winnipeg and NYI, NHL venues are above 17,000. That means the building should probably be razed and rebuilt...but can a 17,500 stadium fit on the current footprint? Doubtful.

Regardless, a new building is probably too much public expense for only a hope.

It is not the same not without the Wendy's you just wouldn't understand. It may look the some but doesn't have the same feel to it. Of course they need a new arena.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Yup and by looking at percentage in the Whalers best years 86-87 The Bruins drew 12,431 and 12,128 which is around 83% filled in a HUGE market compared to the Whale average of 92% filled in a limited market. I'm not saying we had a filled building every night each year because that is far from the truth but I'm sick and tired of people singling out Hartford for not packing them in for a losing team when even OG6 teams (in the US) struggle at the gate when the team is losing. I think an NHL team could strive here with the right ownership, good marketing and corporate support all of which was absent in the past. Replacing the Civic Center is step one.

Don’t discount the fact though that are are fewer corporate headquarters in the Hartford areas in the 2000’s than there were in the 1980’s, especially in the insurance and banking industry. Corporations pay for the big boxes and are able to write them off as a business development expense. Those boxes and the money they generate is what drove the rash of new sports arenas across all of the leagues in the last 20 years (of course mostly paid by taxpayer dollars; but, that is a separate story). The lack of boxes, especially lower level ones, doomed the XL to second tier status. Without boxes and corporations willing to pay for them, getting a new NHL size arena in Hartford will be difficult.

 

[Waquoit]

It is not the same not without the Wendy's you just wouldn't understand. It may look the some but doesn't have the same feel to it. Of course they need a new arena.

Or Chuck's.

 

[Husky25]

It is not the same not without the Wendy's you just wouldn't understand. It may look the some but doesn't have the same feel to it. Of course they need a new arena.

So having a fast food chain store just outside the door made the Civic Center that much more appealing? Romanticize your childhood much?

Hey, I love Fenway Park. It's quirky, it has history, it's a baseball landmark, but there is a reason I haven't been there since 2009. The seats in my price point were built for the 1910's-20's patron and I have a better view from my couch 120 miles away. I certainly don't go to Fenway on the off chance I can sneak in a breakfast sandwich from the Dunkin' Donuts on corner of Brookline and Boylston.

 

[CallMeBruce]

What failure was that? He got that franchise to the playoffs. The fans turned on him because he had no use for Bernie Kosar anymore. The fanbase chose Bernie over Bill, that's why I have little sympathy for Browns fans.

He got them to the playoffs once in five years. They were 36-44 in his tenure there. His last season there was his worst (5-11). When he was fired, Kosar hadn't been the full-time starter for years. What are you talking about?

 

[CallMeBruce]

So having a fast food chain store just outside the door made the Civic Center that much more appealing? Romanticize your childhood much?

Hey, I love Fenway Park. It's quirky, it has history, it's a baseball landmark, but there is a reason I haven't been there since 2009. The seats in my price point were built for the 1910's-20's patron and I have a better view from my couch 120 miles away. I certainly don't go to Fenway on the off chance I can sneak in a breakfast sandwich from the Dunkin' Donuts on corner of Brookline and Boylston.

Dude they've got a Tasty Burger in there now.

 

[Husky25]

Yup and by looking at percentage in the Whalers best years 86-87 The Bruins drew 12,431 and 12,128 which is around 83% filled in a HUGE market compared to the Whale average of 92% filled in a limited market. I'm not saying we had a filled building every night each year because that is far from the truth but I'm sick and tired of people singling out Hartford for not packing them in for a losing team when even OG6 teams (in the US) struggle at the gate when the team is losing. I think an NHL team could strive here with the right ownership, good marketing and corporate support all of which was absent in the past. Replacing the Civic Center is step one.

Here's the thing, It isn't 1986 anymore. In 1986, The Bruins were a 60 year old NHL franchise with 5 Stanley Cups. In 1986, the Whalers were 7 years old and threw a parade for a 4th place Adams Division team that couldn't get out of the second round. In 1986 83% capacity could support players' salaries. Luxury boxes were just that to both fans and the venue. They weren't a necessity. Case in point: The Bruins would make the Stanley Cup Finals in 1988 and 1990 earning the salaries Jacobs paid on the backs of the fans. Finally, by the time The Shawmut Center opened in 1994, its plans had been in the works for 8 years.

Hartford filled a need for the NHL had at the time, but never had a succession plan for the Civic Center, which wasn't even state of the art when it opened. 91%, let alone 83%, capacity and no luxury box occupancy won't cover the 10's of millions in salaries of today's NHL. Honestly, I have respect for the truly die hard Whalers fans, but that time is over. At the end of the day, John Q. Fan was probably not the issue. The community as a whole did not (and probably will not) support the team, from the state, to the city, to the corporations (Corporate support was a key issue back in the Baldwin years. See: Aetna), and finally (in 1996) ownership. Too much is now invested in UConn.

 

[Husky25]

Dude they've got a Tasty Burger in there now.

Where? Where the Dunks' is? I told you, I haven't been back in 5 years. In fact, the last time I was at Fenway, my brother and sister-in law took us for a game up on the Monster as a wedding present. In the interest of full disclosure however, I've seen the Sox in Kansas City, Oakland, and Colorado since then as well as the Dodgers in San Francisco.

Bringing it full circle back to hockey...Going to a preseason game last year at the Pepsi Center in Denver finally convinced me beyond the shadow of a doubt that Hartford is low on the list for a relocated franchise. That place is amazing.

 

[intlzncster]

What failure was that? He got that franchise to the playoffs. The fans turned on him because he had no use for Bernie Kosar anymore. The fanbase chose Bernie over Bill, that's why I have little sympathy for Browns fans.

• 36–44 overall record
• 1 winning season, which included a wildcard spot in the playoffs
• final season finished 5-11, while losing 6 of 7 to finish the season. With a 'supposed' Superbowl contender.

Hardly what anyone would call a success. Cleveland taught him what not to do as a coach, with regards to handling players, org personnel, and as you say, the public. He has admitted as much iirc.